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Spangle
14-05-2008, 3:17 AM
I found this on the web, from Cambridge Councils site:

Cambridge All Saints Parish Church
Settlement certificate of James Eve, wife Susanna and children James and Edward in Chesterton 23 September 1755

I may not have posted this in the right place, but can someone please tell me what a settlement certificate is please? Thank you.

birdlip
14-05-2008, 4:41 AM
Hi there,

as I understand it, if people wanted to move from their parish of origin to another, they could apply for a Settlement Certificate. This meant that if they fell on hard times, they had proof that their old parish would pay the costs.

In practice, most people didn't bother to obtain a certificate, and in that case there was a settlement examination held to determine which parish was responsible. Sometimes there was a dispute between parishes, especially if the person, or family, had moved around a lot. You could gain settlement in a parish by being born there; working there for over a year*, if the master you worked for had settlement there; or by serving an apprenticeship there. Children took their fathers settlement parish. Once the responsible parish was established, the poor unfortunates were usually sent back with a Removal Order, even if it was at the other end of the country.

Parishes were often quick to move certain individuals on, just if they suspected they may have to ask for relief. None were too keen on unmarried single women for example, in case they became pregnant.

* This was apparently one reason why the Hiring Fairs were held once a year, to ensure Ag Labs etc worked for only 364 days at a time, and couldn't therefore claim settlement in that parish!!

hope this helps,

regards birdlip

birdlip
14-05-2008, 5:38 AM
This should be under 'Parish law' I think.. someone will probably move it for you.

Guy Etchells
14-05-2008, 6:40 AM
Not quite as simple as that.
As the practice developed Parishes would simply pay the costs if the disability was temporary but initially things were different.

If a person fell on hard times the parish constable would walk them to the parish boundary and there hand them over to the next constable and so on until they reached their parish of settlement. The costs of this being paid by the parish of settlement.

A wife took her husband's parish of settlement which could mean her being moved to a place she had never been to before if her husband suddenly died.
Bastard children took their parish of birth as their parish of settlement as they are children of no-one.

The implications are that if a stable but unmarried couple with a number of children moved into a parish and the man died, the family could end up being split up and sent to a number of different parishes depending on where the children had been born.
Cheers
Guy

Jan1954
14-05-2008, 6:48 AM
This should be under 'Parish law' I think.. someone will probably move it for you.

Done :)

Pam Downes
14-05-2008, 6:50 AM
This should be under 'Parish law' I think.. someone will probably move it for you.
Spot on birdlip. :)
Spangle - the following may help http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/#Poorhouses and click on the various links.
Pam

AnnB
14-05-2008, 7:39 AM
Can I add that if you do find a settlement examination for one of your ancestors, don't miss the chance of reading it and/or getting a copy. They can be a mine of information :)

Best wishes
Ann

Pam Downes
14-05-2008, 7:39 AM
Forgotten I'd also posted this Spangle
http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?p=132007&highlight=archives#post132007
though it's an example of a removal order and settlement examination for a later time than yours, so yours might not have quite so much information. [The LQS bit at the end is the 'reference' (bearing in mind that the example is a fictitious one regarding the names!) for Lincolnshire Archives.]
Pam

Sue Mackay
14-05-2008, 8:31 AM
You might like to visit this site

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~spire/Yesterday/index.htm

Although primarily concerned with Derbyshire, other counties are mentioned as people moved around. There is an index of settlement certificates, examinations, apprenticeship records and a whole lot more.

Spangle
14-05-2008, 12:33 PM
Thank you ever so much. You have all given me loads to look into tonight when the kids are in bed!

I'm sure I'll be back with more daft questions!

susan-y
14-05-2008, 4:08 PM
:cool:
It's said that we learn something new everyday, and its certainly true of this thread. Very interesting.|idea|
I have never heard of Settlement certificates or the issues of settlement before..lots to read on that. Makes me think of our welfare system today..its not unusual for someone to be put on a bus and sent back where they came from so the local taxpayers aren't paying to support them. It's done quietly, but it is done.
Sue

benny1982
16-05-2008, 9:14 PM
My 5xgreat grandparents Richard and Judith Titshall in Suffolk moved all round the county from 1748 to 1807 when Richard died. They lived in more villages than I have had hot dinners it seems.

Richard did serve an apprenticeship in 1741 aged 13 and married in Bury St Edmunds in 1748. I always thought that if someone had served an apprenticeship, they were free to move from parish to parish. In 1760 they were in Laxfield as their son William was baptised there in 1760. William's brother Richard was born in about 1764 but cannot for the life of me prove his baptism. In 1767 the family moved from Framlingham back to to Laxfield and in 1768 he moved from Laxfield to Dennington (both certs said To The Churchwardens and Overseers of the poor of the parish of...)where the Titshall's seemed to have stayed until about 1783 when Judith died and was buried at Dennington. Both certs mentioned sons William and Richard Jnr. Richard Snr remarried in 1785 to Anna Maria Moss in Hacheston, 5 miles south of Dennington.

In July 1802, Richard and Ann had moved to Framlingham, hoping to gain settlement there but became chargeable and were summoned to be removed back to Redlingfield, but on the back, a note says that due to Ann's ill health, the Titshall's couldnt be removed as yet. This is ironic as Ann died 3 months later.

I still get confused over which is a settlelemt examination and which is a settlement certificate for before 1834.

Spangle
26-10-2008, 10:24 PM
The odd thing is that James Eve, the fella mentioned in my original question, has a settlement certificate registered in Chesterton, Cambridge, in 1755. However, he was BORN in Chesterton in 1728 so why would he have needed a settlement certificate in the area in which he was already associated?

I'm confused (again!).

Spangle
26-10-2008, 10:40 PM
Ah! beggar them! Think I have the answer... we have another James Eve who married a Susanna/Susanna in SOHAM, near Cambridge. The family originated, as far as I can go back, in Chesterton so I guess the man requesting settlement was this one, who felt the need to have a place of security back where his folks were.

Kerrywood
26-10-2008, 11:17 PM
James Eve, the fella mentioned in my original question, has a settlement certificate registered in Chesterton, Cambridge, in 1755. However, he was BORN in Chesterton in 1728 so why would he have needed a settlement certificate in the area in which he was already associated?

It's easy to get the terminology confused. Check back to the top of this thread? As Birdlip said, a settlement certificate is issued by a man's parish of legal settlement for him to take with him when moving to another parish, as a guarantee that his parish of settlement would support him if necessary. So you would expect your man to hold a certificate from his own parish.

Kerrywood

Spangle
27-10-2008, 8:58 PM
Thanks Kerrywood! I was having a blonde/senior moment!

benny1982
27-10-2008, 10:13 PM
Hi

If a man did become a burden on the parish he lived in, he was often sent back to his parish of birth.

Ben

Kerrywood
28-10-2008, 12:35 AM
If a man did become a burden on the parish he lived in, he was often sent back to his parish of birth

... or rather to his parish of legal settlement, which was not necessarily the same place.

Kerrywood

benny1982
28-10-2008, 7:35 PM
Hi

Yes that as well. If he was responsible for the previous parish, then the parish that he lived in would send him bcak there as explained in my post about Richard Titshall in Suffolk.

Ben