??? ROBERTSON on 1900 DEATH CERT.

[robbiej]

|help|I have a definite BRICK WALL.|banghead|
I have a Death Cert, for my Gt. Gt Grandfather, Edward Robertson B/1821 who was married to an Elizabeth Glen, on 2nd Nov.1845 in the Parish Church, Sth Leith. She died prior,in 1871. He, Edward died 1900.
The Cert gives his Father's name as ?? Robertson but the Christian name is unreadable. It has been suggested as John, but having tried that and numerous other shorter (and abbrieviated)longer names, I can find nothing that gives me an Edward B/1821 in the family.
Has anyone this man in their family connections??? or can you help in any way please, as this has really stumped me.
I would think.... that possibly he would come from the Leith/Midlothian area, as the other forward members have done so.
Any help would very much be appreciated in this...
I have posted a copy (Hope anyone can see as to me it is sooo small!!)|banghead|

[Lesley Robertson]

|help|I have a definite BRICK WALL.|banghead|
I have a Death Cert, for my Gt. Gt Grandfather, Edward Robertson B/1821 who was married to an Elizabeth Glen, on 2nd Nov.1845 in the Parish Church, Sth Leith. She died prior,in 1871. He, Edward died 1900.
The Cert gives his Father's name as ?? Robertson but the Christian name is unreadable. It has been suggested as John, but having tried that and numerous other shorter (and abbrieviated)longer names, I can find nothing that gives me an Edward B/1821 in the family.
Has anyone this man in their family connections??? or can you help in any way please, as this has really stumped me.
I would think.... that possibly he would come from the Leith/Midlothian area, as the other forward members have done so.
Any help would very much be appreciated in this...
I have posted a copy (Hope anyone can see as to me it is sooo small!!)|banghead|


If you obtained the certificate copy from Scotlands people, and you can't read something, contact them and ask them to have a look at it. Sometimes the original is more legible.
I can't see an image wiht this post - see here http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30819 for instructions on how to send images to the forum.

Lesley
PS I'm sending this to the General Scotland forum in the hope that it will attract more attention there.

[robbiej]

Thank you Lesley,
I think I have mastered copying the link from Photbucket....herewith..I hope.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/mycerts/EDWARD1821RobDEATH190079YRSb1821.jpg

I sent it to Scotlands writing people and they came back with JOHN..
Also asked Scotland'sPeople for a possibly clearer one, but that's all they could come up with.
The geneal census sssms to be that it is John... to Margaret More (as I was given yrs ago!) but nothing can be found to verify..
Hopefully someone in the General Forum might be able to satisfy it. Thank you for doing that|angel|
I think that possibly someone (but who??) would have to go into the Research Centre in Edinburgh and have a look.. ME.. I am far too far away in NZ unfortunately..much in all as I would LOVE to have a few days there....
BUT maybe there is someone on the forum who is in Ediburgh and who visits there, that could peek at it and satisfy us all.
Thanks Lesley.
J

[Lesley Robertson]

Thank you Lesley,
I think I have mastered copying the link from Photbucket....herewith..I hope.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/mycerts/EDWARD1821RobDEATH190079YRSb1821.jpg

I sent it to Scotlands writing people and they came back with JOHN..
Also asked Scotland'sPeople for a possibly clearer one, but that's all they could come up with.
The geneal census sssms to be that it is John... to Margaret More (as I was given yrs ago!) but nothing can be found to verify..
Hopefully someone in the General Forum might be able to satisfy it. Thank you for doing that|angel|
I think that possibly someone (but who??) would have to go into the Research Centre in Edinburgh and have a look.. ME.. I am far too far away in NZ unfortunately..much in all as I would LOVE to have a few days there....
BUT maybe there is someone on the forum who is in Ediburgh and who visits there, that could peek at it and satisfy us all.
Thanks Lesley.
J


If you compare the R on the father's surname with that of the deceased, and remove all the associated flourishes, I can see why they say it's John. It definitely ends in "n", there's a very miserly "o".
SP can never replace images (think about the thousands and thousands they must have, and they don't have the original documents, they're held by GROS), but they're always helpful with reading difficult bits. I don't think anything would be gained by paying someone to go to NRH and look at the imgae, now that I've seen it.
Where to go next?
I'd head for the census. It'll give you Edward's birth parish. It looks as though he liveed and died in Leith, but you can't assume that he was born there.
I have to admit that I can't find any Church-related records for these people, which makes me wonder whether they weren't non-Conformists (SP and the IGI are both based on the Church of Scotland registers). However, Edward/Elisabeth's marriage is in the CoS register for Leith. It might be worth checking to see whether older registers for Leith have survived.
I would also look for John & Margaret in the earlier censuses and in the death certificates - yes I know how many John Robertsons there are, but the trick is to look for the wife first as she can be searched on both surnames at once. That'll tell you if she died a wife or a widow, giving you a bit more of a timeframe for John's death (before or after her).
I'd also check on Edward's siblings in the hope that one or more married after 1855, and thus had a marriage cert.

Lesley

[Marie C..]

It couldn't be Kenneth could it?M

[Lesley Robertson]

It couldn't be Kenneth could it?M


Since I posted the above, I've been wondering whether that first letter isn't an R. However, I do think that upstroke at the end is actually the vertical straight line of the R - look at it on the child's surname, very much like an inverted V, detatched from the loop at the top. I hadn't thought about a K...
Robbie, are there any cap Ks on the rest of the page to compare it to?
Lesley

[Marie C..]

Also thought it might be Robert but the R's are very pronounced on the Robertson. OH thinks it's Knut??.

[Archives]

Looks like 'Ken' to me.

[robbiej]

As it was given to me as John to Margaret More (there could I guess be a variation in spelling here to Moore etc), and I was told that she was Born around 1792 Leith, and died aged 88 ys in 1881...
The whole family of Robertson's up to him, have lived and died in the Leith area it would seem, by what I have found out so far. I have all certs up to him, but NOTHING ON him or siblings etc...|computer|
Also....John was the general census of opinion.
Herewith from Photobucket are the samples sent to me by Scotland's Writing to verify their reply of John
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/mycerts /compareJohnBottomLHS.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/mycerts/compareRofRobertson.jpg

WHO EVER he is, he ofcourse has to have a child 'Edward' born on that or near date... and this seems hard to find.
I have scrolled through Batch Nos, LDS, etc, and cannot find anything - The Ancestry.com Census I have does not give enough information to clear it up either,(just a Margaret Robertson) but maybe someone with a bit more experience than I (a novice!) and who has Ancestry can find him/her in that.
Thanks all of you.
Here is also a link o the actual certificate as well for anyone interested.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/mycerts/EDWARD1821RobDEATH190079YRSb1821.jpg
J

[Wilkes_ml]

Just a couple of suggestions:

Firstly, ignoring the father's name, have you checked for a marriage between a Margaret More and a Robertson?

Have you searched for an Edward More born around the time of Edwards birth. Maybe Edward was born prior to his parent's marriage.

[Wilkes_ml]

My first thought about the father's name (after blowing it up) is maybe Wm (short for William) after comparing the first letter to the first letter of the address which Edward was born (looks like Widows something!)

It is always worth looking at every capital letter on the document to see how they are written - though of course not every letter will be there!

[Lesley Robertson]

Thanks all of you.
Here is also a link o the actual certificate as well for anyone interested.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/mycerts/EDWARD1821RobDEATH190079YRSb1821.jpg
J

Robbie, what's that text across the top left corner? On your image, it's cut off.
The trouble with death certs is that the info supplied gets less reliable as the information is supplied by each generation away from the deceased - and this was a granddaughter. Let's work from the idea that his father was probably John. Mother could be More/Moore/Muir, etc. Sometimes whole volumes of church registers went missing, so another approach is worth trying.

Remember that Ancestry's not over-good for Scotland. Only SP has the images.
Remember that SP's search engine isn't flexible with spelling variations - see my sticky on the subject.

How else to approach this?
1: Have you looked for Edward in the 1841 census? Many young men lived with their parents until they married. If they were all in Leith, he may be in the same house, or a neighbouring one.
2: Look for Margaret, with husband John in the 1841 & 1851 census.
3: If Margaret was having children around 1821, she can't have been that old (20s, 30s?) so you have a chance that she lived to 1855 and then had a death cert. On SP you can search married women on both surnames at the same time, which makes common surnames easier - I suggested this about 2 messages ago.
4: Have a look for a will.
5: Have you looked at the actual 1845 entry for that marriage? Sometimes they record the names of witnesses.
6: What about siblings for Edward? Do you know of any?

Lesley

[Marie C..]

There are hundreds of Robertsons in the parishes around Edinburgh.
I just cannot find an Edward that fits. There are also Moor/Moir families.... no Margaret.
Plenty of Johns. There are Kenneth Robertson s on the Family search site so kenneth is not an impossibility. Wish we could see more of the cert to see how the registrar does his J's. M

[Lesley Robertson]

There are hundreds of Robertsons in the parishes around Edinburgh.
I just cannot find an Edward that fits. There are also Moor/Moir families.... no Margaret.
Plenty of Johns. There are Kenneth Robertson s on the Family search site so kenneth is not an impossibility. Wish we could see more of the cert to see how the registrar does his J's. M


There's a link to the whole cert at the end of message 9.
It DOES look a bith like Ken, but it would be highly unusual for a name to be abbreviated like that in 19th century Scotland. The only abbreviation for kenneth I've seen is Ken th, with the "th" as a superscript.

Lesley

[Marie C..]

Thanks Lesley, I didn't see that one. It really seems to me now like Robert. See how he writes the b's more like a v in the word Robertson.
I have been round all the sites and there are Edward Robertsons on A.....y in Midlothain records but I cannot access them as have no sub.
Was Robert a name used in the family?
It seems Robertsons go abck to earl 1600's in South Leith, an Archibald Logan married a Janet Robertson there in 1611.
www.leithhistory.co.uk
http://web.ukonline.co.uk
htt://mysiteverizon.net/loganfalls/Scotland.htm
are all sites that mention Robertson in Midlothian. M

[robbiej]

Hi to you all.
Firstly Marie C...
To my knowledge there is no Robert in the family ...so far.
Lesley...
The remark at the side of the Cert, SEEMS to relate to GLEN, as far as I can make out.. Elizabeth Glen was the wife of Ed.B/1821.. So maybe she had 'input' at the death.?
I cannot find him on my Census list at all ! He sure is a mystery man.
BUT...Just now I had a note from Ancestry Queries...
Reading..
I have a Margaret More b 15 Jan 1792 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh Midlothian who may have married your ...? ROBERTSON. She is the daughter of Josiah MORE and his wife Christian nee PEACOCK who married 30th April 1784 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh. Margaret had sisters Rachel and Barbara.
I have replied. So MAYBE ??? I have mailed back was there a son...?
Lesley ..
I am sorry to be such a blunderbus here, but 'how to' and 'what to do' are often doule dutch to me. Searching the Scotland's/P in two names ?? How ? I have so far managed to get a lot of certs there, probably through luck than anything else.. but doing double names... ah !
All this is very daunting to me at times, as I have not done anything like it before, so forgive me if I seem dimwitted..
I haven't got Ancestry.com, so rely on a friend who will look if I ask for.... whatever.. I will mail him and see what he can come up with.
To Wilks...
YES I have done both of what you suggested.. Nothing.|computer|
I guess if she/they are there someone will sort them out !
J|bowdown|

[robbiej]

Here.. again.
Have just had a look on Scotland'sP and canot find anything relating to her marriage. put in More, moore, and Robertson.
Also had a look in the Wills. Nothing that I could see that related.
Edward and Eliz Glen Marriage Cert, does not give out any information on his family at all.
Have sent off mail to see if my friend... if he is about, can look up Ancestry to see if there is anything relating to Margaret More to ? Robertson re 1841 - 1861 census..
|jumphappy This is about what I feel like now ! - altough not the happy bit !
Cheers. J

[Lesley Robertson]

Hi to you all.
Lesley...
The remark at the side of the Cert, SEEMS to relate to GLEN, as far as I can make out.. Elizabeth Glen was the wife of Ed.B/1821.. So maybe she had 'input' at the death.?

{snip}

I have a Margaret More b 15 Jan 1792 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh Midlothian who may have married your ...? ROBERTSON. She is the daughter of Josiah MORE and his wife Christian nee PEACOCK who married 30th April 1784 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh. Margaret had sisters Rachel and Barbara.

{snip}

I am sorry to be such a blunderbus here, but 'how to' and 'what to do' are often doule dutch to me. Searching the Scotland's/P in two names ?? How ? I have so far managed to get a lot of certs there, probably through luck than anything else.. but doing double names... ah !
All this is very daunting to me at times, as I have not done anything like it before, so forgive me if I seem dimwitted..


Point 1 above: Can you see anything that looks like RCE (Register of Corrected Entries)? When you call that certificate up on SP, does a red button appear as well?

Point 2 above: You have some distinctive (in Scotland) forenames there. Do any of them appear among the early children in your tree?

Point 3. Don't apologise for finding SP complicated - it takes time to get to know it (If there's something you think I've left out of my post on using SP, please tell me - you're the type of user I wrote it for (beginners) and when you've been using it as long as I have, it's hard to see what needs saying).
It sounds as though you worked out the double name thing? Go to the Search Deaths page, put in her forename and either married or maiden name, then put her other surname in the "Other Surnames" box.
Cross your fingers, hit Search.
I've just done that - searched on Margaret More, 2nd surname Robertson, birth year 1792 +/- 5 years (remember that people were fuzzy about ages) and have got a single hit. I don't have any spare credits to take it any further, but she's worth a look.

Lesley

[Marie C..]

Robbie,
I have been round and round the Robertson(and Logan) mulberrybush and come up with hundreds of Robertsons none of which fit yours. They go back in S leith to the 1600's. Elizabeth Glen married Edward Robertson 6th Nov 1845 in S. Leith and her father was George Glen. you probably have this. I also have a caroline Moore marrying a Robert Edward Robertson! No use to you yet but maybe later. M
Have you seen this site www.scotsfind.org
It has all sorts on it re Robertson.
eg. baptism Edward Robertson 1st may 1851 father Edward Robertson ,mother Elisabeth Glenn South Leith also Edward Robertson bap 27th July 1851 father William Robertson and Jean nee Gray.
and back.....Christian Robertson (female) bap 27th August 1682 South Leith daughter of John Robertson and Jean(nee Johnstone) and so on. Lists and lists of Robertsons from all over.

[Wilkes_ml]

I've got 8 credits remaining on my account - and I'm unlikely to need the in the forseeable future, so if you haven't already got the (likely) death entry, let me know and I'll get it for you.

[robbiej]

Hi all. I have put a FULL certificate on Photobucket, which I came across in my files yesterday. It will give everyone a chance to compare the writing of the script . I hope this helps. Mr Archer isn't what one would say, an excellent writer !
The inscription at the side seems to be something to do with the Eliz Glen whom he was married to.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/mycerts/DeathCertRobEDWARD19001.jpg

Thank you for the offer of using your Credits 'Wilks'. That is good of you, but I don't think it necessary unless you want to see for yourself.
However, if someone has any ideas of how to verify in any way...maybe regarding Census, that would be great as I have only the on Census of 1871 showing him with son and his (son's) daughter Margaret aged 17 and son aged 20. .. He is aged 50..(CSSCT1871_169) I don't know if that will help. I haven't access to Ancestry.com.
Thanks everyone.
J

[Lesley Robertson]

Hi all. I have put a FULL certificate on Photobucket, which I came across in my files yesterday. It will give everyone a chance to compare the writing of the script . I hope this helps. Mr Archer isn't what one would say, an excellent writer !
The inscription at the side seems to be something to do with the Eliz Glen whom he was married to.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/mycerts/DeathCertRobEDWARD19001.jpg

Thank you for the offer of using your Credits 'Wilks'. That is good of you, but I don't think it necessary unless you want to see for yourself.
However, if someone has any ideas of how to verify in any way...maybe regarding Census, that would be great as I have only the on Census of 1871 showing him with son and his (son's) daughter Margaret aged 17 and son aged 20. .. He is aged 50..(CSSCT1871_169) I don't know if that will help. I haven't access to Ancestry.com.
Thanks everyone.
J


I think that the idea was to look at the margaret More/Robertson death cert I found. If it's your lady, it should say who she was married to - hopefully in a different hadnwriting.
Lesley

[robbiej]

SORRY Folks.. No Go... OH D|computer|EAR....
We have seen that one before and have it on file.
I ran it past my griend, who came back with....
Yes.. her birth name is Robertson and her married name More.
She is the Widow of Robert More and the daughter of James Robertson and ______ (Agnes) Hunter.
Unless Edward was illegitimate, and born before her marriage with Robert More, and then he used her married name as her maiden name to cover up the fact... (mind you, I wouldn't put it past him!)|idea|

With a look at the census entries below... , although Margaret appears to have had at least one illegitimate child, and she was married to Robert More in June 1822, which she could just have done after Edward's birth, she also seems to have never left Paisley. So I think that rules her out?
Unless she had her first illegitimate child, Henry Lang, in Paisley, then whipped over to South Leith, had Edward, and zoomed back again just in time to marry Robert More.

1861
16 Newton St, Paisley High Church, Renfrewshire
Margret More, 64, Head, born Paisley, Renfrewshire, Silk Winder
Thomas More, 38, Son, born Paisley, Renfrewshire, Formerly Carter
Janet Ferguson, 44, Lodger, born Paisley, Renfrewshire, Washer Woman
1851
16 Newton Street, Paisley High Church
Margt Robertson, 80, Head, born Paisley
Henry Lang, 38, Son, born Paisley, Hand Loom Weaver
Thomas More, 27, Son, born Parish, Paisley Abbey, Messenger (pauper)
1841
Newton Street, Paisley Martyrs, Renfrewshire
James Robertson, 74, born Renfrewshire, Cotton H L W
Margaret Robertson, 45, born Renfrewshire
Agness Robertson, 30, born Renfrewshire, Winds Cotton
Henry Lang, 20, born Renfrewshire, Cotton H L W
Thomas More, 15, born Renfrewshire,
So that leaves us back at square one I guess...|banghead||help||help||help|
J

[Lesley Robertson]

SORRY Folks.. No Go... OH D|computer|EAR....
We have seen that one before and have it on file.
I ran it past my griend, who came back with....
Yes.. her birth name is Robertson and her married name More.


Blast!
Oh well, it did seem a bit too easy.
Lesley

[robbiej]

Hi All.
I went over to our local L D S today in the hope !! that I might just crack the Edward mystery, but NO GO..|computer|
When I went there a few years back, they had Ancestry and Scotlan'sP online, now they have nothing but LSD. A sign of the times I guess !
It seems that Ancestry.com is now online in the local and main Library, but really of little use to me.
ONlY one of the two 'helpers there had any knowledge of how their files and films etc could be read.
The only thing I did learn was that LDS site has more to offer in research through it's own facility, as they have added a couple of things useable through the internet.
I ordered a couple of films ... Birth/Baptisms and Mariages 1750 - 1855 which just might bring forth something, so I guess it wasn't a completely wasted journey on a cold miserable day ! The films will take three to four weeks to get to NZ so...! Keep on keeping on I guess !|jedi|

[Archives]

What's that last name on the death certificate, the third entry down? Someone Taylor...the first part of their name is exactly the same as the mysterious Robertson's. It looks like it should be Wm but there's a descender from the first letter I think, and the W doesn't really look it does in the William in the middle entry. If you could find out who that Taylor is, then you've got the first name.

[robbiej]

UMM... I read that as... James Tayor/ Ann Taylor...M/s Thomson...Deceased...
DO you really think it is similar?
Actually, when I look hard it seems to be more like the ???? Archer... Jim ? that signed it !
Come on folkes this is really a contest game!!! - No fat prize, but a bed if you ever come to CHCH. NZ for a holiday!
J

[Lesley Robertson]

UMM... I read that as... James Tayor/ Ann Taylor...M/s Thomson...Deceased...
DO you really think it is similar?
Actually, when I look hard it seems to be more like the ???? Archer... Jim ? that signed it !
Come on folkes this is really a contest game!!! - No fat prize, but a bed if you ever come to CHCH. NZ for a holiday!
J


A quick check on the SP index shows that one to be John Thomson Taylor. I agree, it's remarkably similar to your entry - you're going to have to accept what SP told you - the death cert says his father was John Robertson.
Of course, since he was quite old, and a granddaughter gave the info, it doesn't have to be correct. Edward wouldn't have had a birth cert to check, and they might never have discussed it.
Lesley

[Archives]

Yup, I agree with Lesley that it's John. The two entries are almost identical, though the R from Robertson does get in the way and it is rather cramped. John it is! Whether it really was, of course...

[robbiej]

Well. That seems confirmed JOHN it is then. Now to find him. Where to from here eh ?|idea|
OK you two - I have only a double spare. You will have to come at separate times !|angel|
J

[Lesley Robertson]

Well. That seems confirmed JOHN it is then. Now to find him. Where to from here eh ?|idea|



The census. Go for the 1851 to get confirmation of Edward's birth parish. I think I'd check the '41 and '61 as well, in case either of the parents moved in when the other parent died, as was common.
Lesley

[robbiej]

OOPs....Another problem...
I have gone through all the Ancestry.com Censors I have.
The only one I can find that gives any possible information, and that is to Edward B/1821, .is..Census of 1871 where Edward B/1851 is aged 50 .
He Edward 1821, was born Leith Midlothian, So I PRESUME (??) that Father was from there as well..
Well he was living there when Edward was born !
I have the MARRIAGE of Edward 1821 to Eliz. Glen (He is a Bottlemaker) M/6th Nov.1845, but, as usual, it does not give any information of Edward's Birth.
They were married after three calls of Banns in the Parish Church of Sth Leith.
At that time he lived at No/ 2. Salamander St. Leith, Parish of Sth Leith.
I unfortunately have NO access to Ancestry now, as my friend has completed his Tree, and is no longer a member, so he cannot look up any Census for me.
At the same time of this 1881 Census, his (Edward B1821) son...( Edward B/1821), was 29, and living with the Gordon family at 134 Aitkenhead Rd. Lanark.
I wonder if Scotland'sP have a census ???
I don't seem to have anything on the mystery man..|help||help||help| !!!

[Wilkes_ml]

Scotlands people has the census index and images as well. Ancestry doesn't have the images.

[robbiej]

OK Wilkes_ml.
Give me directions of what to do ! Remember I am NOT expert. I am not a paid member of Ancestry...
So I guess Scotland'sP Census areas, ..... What years, and then what ? and I will endeavour to find ..
Thanks.
J

[christanel]

G'day
I have been reading this thread but not joining in because I am easily confused.:)
But I do have a sub to Ancestry and Findmypast (at the moment) so would be willing to look up whatever you need.
As robbiej says give me specific instructions as to what you need and I will do my best. If you want me to that is.
Christina

[Lesley Robertson]

OK Wilkes_ml.
Give me directions of what to do ! Remember I am NOT expert. I am not a paid member of Ancestry...
So I guess Scotland'sP Census areas, ..... What years, and then what ? and I will endeavour to find ..
Thanks.
J


As I've mentioned before, if you look at the sticky messages at the top of this forum, there's a long message on how to use SP.

Lesley

[robbiej]

Hi all.
Yes Lesley......:).. I have read your stickys and they are informative,I tried your NASA site, but unfortunately I felt they did not give me any information that I wanted. But there again I am new to all this, and POSSIBLY did not put in what I should have..
Your stickys are good for anyone with some experience in searching... BUT they do not tell ME.
(or maybe Cristanel, whom I thank and would welcome the help)..
What to put in when searching the Census on S/P. site...|help|?.
You said search the Census "41. 51 & 61...."
Edward 1821 lived in Salamdander st Leith Parish in 1881, but earlier ???
Does one just put the name? and it would come up with various Robersons so then you pick Edward?? or does one have to put the address - which back in 1821, would be unknown...
|banghead| This is what I wanted to know...
J

[robbiej]

OPPS Sorry Christanel I meant to reply to you.
As you have read I am trying to locate the Father of Edward B/1821.
For some reason...HE does not seem to want to come forth at all. :confused:
His son Edward B/1821 is on several Census, but I have only ones from 1861 forward.
In the Ancestry one of 1871 he, Ed.1821 isa Draper, with his son 20, and daughter 17, (roll: CSSCT1871_169) is Born in Leith, Sth Leith Burgh.
(consequently I THINK ? that the father would be therein that area as well ???
The Leith Census of 1881 of Edward Robertson B/1821, gives him in Salamander St.
There is another Edward Robertson that I have Census for (Robertson seems to be like Smith here in NZ !100's of them!) With the wife Elizabeth, but he is born Lanarkshire..IT IS NOT HIM..|bowdown|
Maybe you can do something with ALL THIS !!
Lordy Be... All I want is the ??Robertson's Christian name|banghead|
J

[christanel]

Ok, after a busy day - unusual for me - I have just got back to this thread and for the first time had a look at the certificate AND I think the first letter of Edward's father's name is an R. I just can't see John in it at all. I know the bottom loop is missing from the R but......
And calling a son Robert Robertson wouldn't be unusual. My adoptive grandfather's father was Robert Roberts and the last time I looked there were over 3000 of the poor men given that name combination in the 20 century. I won't even go in to William Williams and Stephen Stephens.
Ah well we will see.
I have to leave this now but will come back to it tomorrow - could be a case of the blind leading the blind but if nothing else I will be learning new skills by searching in Scotland.
Christina

[Lesley Robertson]

Hi all.
Yes Lesley......:).. I have read your stickys and they are informative,I tried your NASA site, but unfortunately I felt they did not give me any information that I wanted. But there again I am new to all this, and POSSIBLY did not put in what I should have..
Your stickys are good for anyone with some experience in searching... BUT they do not tell ME.
(or maybe Cristanel, whom I thank and would welcome the help)..
What to put in when searching the Census on S/P. site...|help|?.
You said search the Census "41. 51 & 61...."
Edward 1821 lived in Salamdander st Leith Parish in 1881, but earlier ???
Does one just put the name? and it would come up with various Robersons so then you pick Edward?? or does one have to put the address - which back in 1821, would be unknown...
|banghead| This is what I wanted to know...
J

Don't be too specific at first - people moved around, so don't only search one village, for example. I normally start with name, age and county, and focus down from there.
I always get the best results by the person with the least common name (Edward's less common than John, for example), putting the age in +/- 5 or 10 years, unless there's a young child in the house, in which case I search the child - people were more accurate about the ages of the young. I'd limit the search to the county, and see how many hits you get. You pay the same for the index for 1 hit or 15 as that's one page, so once I get the result to 1 or 2 pages, I print the list out and have a good look at it to pick the likely people - then look at the likely ones. With common names, I repeat the same search with a second member of the household (eg husband and wife, parent and child), and compare the lists - if both people were at home on census night, then you should get the same hit in both lists.
It takes a bit of patience, but I managed to find my own John Robertson up in Angus, so it can be done!
Remember that the 1841 is the least informative. If you find your people in the 1851, it's always worth lookingg for death certs which strted 4 years later.
Lesley

[Sue Mackay]

1851 Census: Elbo Street, Leith
Parish: Leith South; ED: 39; Page: 12; Line: 23

Edward ROBERTSON Head 29 Bottle Maker born Midlothian, Sth Leith
Elizabeth wife 31 born Midlothian Edin.
Elizabeth dau 2 born Midlothian Sth Leith

[Sue Mackay]

1841 Census: Salamander Street, Leith
Parish: South Leith; ED: 43; Page: 14; Line: 1500

Edward ROBERTSON 20 Bottlemaker's apprentice, born in County
Living with a Thomas HENDERSON

Don't know whether there would be any apprenticeship records?

[petewallacefife]

Do you have the names of the children to the marriage of Edward Robertson and Elizabeth Glen .
The scottish naming sequence was mostly adhered to and can give a good insight into who the grandparents were .
The 1st male child was named after the fathers father ,
The 2nd male child was named after the mothers father
The 3rd male child was named after the father
The 1st female child was named after the mothers mother
The 2nd female child was named after the fathers mother
The 3rd female child was named after the mother

The Period from 1820 to 1854 probably only about as little as 20 % of births were recorded , so it is not unusual for people researching to grab on to the ones which are displayed as their own line . Lots of wrong trees created that way .
And nearly all the births are Church of Scotland only . Catholic and Non conformist not served well for records .
Ancestry is riddled with poor transcriptions sometimes and needs to be searched using the * wildcard symbol .

[Rubina]

Sorry to mix things up but I think the Father's name is Robert perhaps written Rbert?

RobieJ I was interested in your explanation of the naming of Scottish children as half my research is along my Dad's scottish ancestory. There is also the thing about mother's naming their first (female?) child with her maiden name as a middle name, is there not? This is actually quite useful. Is it always the female line they do this for?

Rubina

[petewallacefife]

Lots of the time the child was named only with the forename But sometimes the full name was used .

There is also the thing about mother's naming their first (female?) child with her maiden name as a middle name, is there not?
The 1st female child was named after the mothers mother = { If for example Elizabeth Glen,s mother was Mary Simpson . The child would be named Mary Simpson Robertson }
The 2nd female child was named after the fathers mother = { If for example Robert Robertsons mother was Jane Thomson . The child would be named Jane Thomson Robertson }
The 3rd female child was named after the mother = { The child could be named Elizabeth Glen Robertson }
Same for the male line .

But beware some children born with just a forename and surname sometimes adopted the mothers surname as a middle name in later life :))

[robbiej]

Peterwallacefife has put it very well...
MY..Edward 1821 married to Elizabeth Glen I presume, was named after her mother who was also Elizabeth.. She and Edward had three children.
1st. Elizabeth B/1848...presume after her Mother..
2nd. Margaret B/1843.... maybe after a grandmother ?althouth there isn't that name mentioned in her Mother's parents marriage names.
3rd. Edward B/1851... After Father...
THIS (1851) Edward, in turn married Isbella Gordon in 1872. They had two Children.
1st. Margaret Eadie Gordon B/1872 (The Eadie was her Mother's mainden name)
2nd. Edward B/ 1874....He after the Father ??
So one could gleen from that, that it is virtually as Peterwallacefife says.
They often DO put, or add, as a tradition... a family name to theirs, either at Birth or later.
I have a brother of my father who was Thomas Robertson, and who adopted his Mother's mainden surname of Patterson into his name.
I think this is probably done where there is only one Chritian name.

Interestingly.. when the Edward B/1851 remarried (2nd time) Mary Paterson, they did NOT have an Edward in their 4 children of Thomas, George, Elizabeth & Alfred !! Maybe they thought there were too many Edwards around !
I wish my earlier Edward's had added a name ! it would have made it much more easy to trace them !!
Thank you Sue, Yes I have those Certs... Unfortunately not helpful|banghead|
Actually I am after the Christian name of Edward B/1821 (Elizabeth Glen's husband)... as no one seems to know what it is with the writing of the Mr Archer who signed the death Cert. Here is a link if anyone wants to have a look.
Another pair of eyes might just help. Although it is already under discussion on the Forum...Be my guest, as he is a read headache and I cannot move back.. if I don't know who he is...|banghead|
I have looked on the FreeCen etc, trying John and also Edward ! but cannot get him.. I am going to have another go with the FreeCen and also Scotland'sP Census, with some other names, but I am not hopeful !
Thanks everyone...back to burning the question ...WHO is Edward's Father ??????
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/mycerts/DeathCertRobEDWARD19001.jpg

[Lesley Robertson]

Actually I am after the Christian name of Edward B/1821 (Elizabeth Glen's husband)... as no one seems to know what it is with the writing of the Mr Archer who signed the death Cert. Here is a link if anyone wants to have a look.
Another pair of eyes might just help. Although it is already under discussion on the Forum...Be my guest, as he is a read headache and I cannot move back.. if I don't know who he is...|banghead|



Scotlands People have told you that it says John. The text looks exactly like another entry further down the page which is indexed as John. Quite a few of the people on this forum have told you that it says John.

You are free to disagree, but to say "no one seems to know what it is" is a bit ingenuous.

Lesley

[robbiej]

OPPS Lesley - My Humble apologies..
That was my fault... I SHOULD have said Cannot find THEM anywhere..I should be more careful !.
And.. Yes, I realise he could have been out of wedlock etc. but I just wish I could locate a John/Margaret More with him, Edward as a son ! I have tried the S/P Census... no joy there...done a LOT of the Batch numbers, and gone through FreeCen with Robertson and More, nothing... I thought maybe he/they could be picked up in a later time..I have even tried Irish sites, but to me they are too recent, and they don't go back enough - due I guess to their' Burnt' files...
Also I am very at sea as to the areas over there, (and also in Scotland).. as to where to look - although I have an album of Edward 1851 which was presented to him by the Irish Master Tailors & Cutters Assn in 1897 of Dublin. That got me thinking that just maybe his father came originally from there, and they went back for a visit.... It would seem that is a lost cause as well.
Again Lesley... I do apologise and to everyone else also.|blush|.. My Mistake..This is really frustrating me...:confused:..
J

[robbiej]

Hi everyone. Sorry my Computer has been down.
I have just been through all this, and done another check on Scotland'sPeople with the More Margaret.... Mo*** etc, Nothing.
Also did as suggested and tried the Edward More. Nothing.
It would seem that he just is not to be found... DRAT !
I cannot go any further without him and he is only Gt Grand Father !.
The only one I saw that is I guess might be a possibility is a Marriage... on 28/02/1813... MOIR MARGARET PETER ROBERTSON Dunblane /PERTH .I will have a look on LDS and see if I can find any children that would match Edward 1821.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
J

[robbiej]

I just thought - Does anyone have any thinking on Ireland.???.. Maybe he is there - But I gather that the Irish Records are somewhat minimal..
IF someone has a clue as to where one might look in Ireland..Maybe they could help ?
This Edward Robertson's son did a stint in Dublin as a Tailor in 1897... I have a lovely album presented to him by the Master Tailor's Assn..
I had a look but could not find anything relating to census etc there... Someone in the Forum may be able to help here...
J