Mardi

[mardi]

Hi Iam from Australia and am a very keen family history researcher.
I am researching surnames Brennand from Herefordshire and Norsworthy's from Birkenhead.
Records show Mary Brennandfrom Herefordshire married William H Norsworthy at St Peter Birkenhead marriage index years 1881 to 1885.
In 1908 Mary put a missing person notice in a Liverpool paper asking for information regarding her brother James Brennand who is my great great grandfather, the notice is as follows, James Brennand, left Kingland, Herefordshire, for Pt Wakefield South Australia, 50 years ago, if alive contact Mary Norsworthy, nee Brennand, 46 Livingstone Street, Birkenhead.
I do not know if she managed to make any contact with him , James died in 1910 here in Australia. Mary also placed a similar notice in the English paper named the Weekly Mercury in 1913.
I have tried to trace where Livingstone Street is and have tried to find if any Norsworthy's still live in Birkenhead but so far have had no luck.
Does anyone have any ideas that may put me on the right track.
Also would it be a good idea to put an add in a news paper in Birkenhead.
Thankyou
Mardi

[Bo Peep]

|wave|Hello Mardi and welcome to the Brit-Gen forum. I am delighted you have joined our community and wish you success with your research.

[Wirral]

Hi Mardi
Looks like there are no NORSWORTHYs still on the Wirral. Margaret NORSWORTHY born 18 Mar 1893 died May 1985 age 92, Chester & Ellesmere Port Registration district volume 35 page 166. However, that doesn't mean you have no relatives left around here as many of the NORSWORTHYs were girls, so will have changed their name when they married. There are a number of marriages listed on www.cheshirebmd.org.uk (http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk)
You could contact the Wirral News on http://icwirral.icnetwork.co.uk/ or the Liverpool Echo on http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/ The Echo has a section every Saturday where people are looking for old friends & relatives.
Livingstone St is by Birkenhead Park. It runs between North Conway St & Cleveland St.

[mardi]

Thankyou for my welcome,
Thankyou to Wirral for the great advice and information you sent me, I will follow up on it and see if I can further my research.
It is a bit difficult living so far off in Aust and trying to find where to look for many thingswhen you are not sure of the parishes etc
I will contact the newspapers you advised and see if I get a response.
Mardi

[janbooth]

Hi Mardi and welcome to the Forum.

This looks like Mary and William in the 1891 census of Birkenhead:

RG12/2882 folio 92, page 15
144 St Anne Street

William H G NORSWORTHY Head M 32 Dock Board Labourer Devonshire Morice Town
Mary do Wife M 32 Herefordshire Kingsland
Gertrude A do Daur 0 (16 days?) Cheshire Birkenhead

However, I can't find any of them in the 1901 census.

I can find Mary BRENNAND (transcribed as BRENNARD by Ancestry) in the 1871 census of Kinglsland (RG10/2718, folio 73, page 5) where she is staying with her grandparents Thomas, aged 86, a Tailor, born Herefordshire ? and Esther, aged 81, born Salop ?.

Will try to investigate them further.

Janet

[janbooth]

I think I have found Mary in the 1861 census of Kingsland enumerated as BRINNETT:

RG9/1833, folio 74, page 9
Kingsland Village

Thomas BRINNETT Head Mar 75 Tailor Herefordshire Aymestry
Ester do Wife Mar 69 Seamstris Salop Amesbury?
Thomas do Son Mar 53 Farm Labourer Herefordshire Amberly
Isaac do Son Un 30 Tailor do Kingsland
Mary do Grandaughter 2 do do

According to Hugh Wallis's IGI site, there are 2 BRENNAND baptisms at Kingsland:

30 November 1856 James BRENNAND, father Charles, mother Elizabeth
28 September 1851 William BRENNAND, father Charles, mother Elizabeth

These appear in the 1861 census of Kingsland as follows:

RG9/1833, folio 96, page 26
Shirlheath Common

Charles BRINNAND Head Mar 35 Agricultural Labourer Hereford Amberly
Elizabeth do Wife Mar 38 Radnor Disaeth?
William do Son 9 Scholar Hereford Kingsland
James do Son 4 do do do

Given that Charles shows his birthplace as Amberly as does one of the sons of Thomas BRENNAND, it is quite likely that Thomas is the father of Charles and that this James is your gggrandfather.

Charles and Elizabeth are still alive and in Kingsland in the 1891 census. They are also in the 1851 census of Kingsland (this time enumerarated as BRUNNAND and transcribed as BRUMAND by Ancestry) and are shown with a 12 year old son John Thomas. However, as he is shown as born in Disaerth and Elizabeth is 6 years older than Charles, I should think John Thomas is Elizabeth's son either from a previous marriage or an illegitimate child before she married Charles. They are also in the 1871 census of Kingsland together with a son George born c1863 at Kingsland.

There is a marriage registration on the GRO Index in the March qtr 1846 at Presteigne reg district, vol 26, page 375 of a Charles BRINNAND and a corresponding entry for an Elizabeth DAVIES. Their marriage certificate should confirm whether she was married previously or not and whether the father of Charles was Thomas.

HTH

Janet

[mardi]

Hello Janet,
Thankyou for all the wonderful information you have sent me, I am ever so greatful for your great kindness in looking up all the information you have given and am really excited.
I have found the Brennand surname spelt in all the various ways you have when I have been researching and yes all you have given me are my family link as far as I can determine.
Kingsland, Aymestry, Cobnash and Almely are all the places my ancestors were supposed to have been born in. Thomas Brennand & Dorothy Kinsey
married 1782 Aymestry, son Thomas, christened Nov 1785 wooten married Hester/Ester,(surname unknown) she was born in Salop Diddlebury, Shropshire
They had a son James christened December 1832 Cobnash Kingsland and he is my gggrandfather who came to Aust in 1852 and is the person who's sister Mary Norsworthy was looking for.
As far as I can make out the Charles who married Elizabeth from Radnor is a brother to my James gggrandfather.
Family always said the Thomas Brennand ancestors were tailors.
Thankyou for the census information on William & Mary Norsworthy they certainly sound like the right ones.Thankyou once again I am ever so pleased
as I really dont know very much on how to go about looking up the English records.
Mardi

[janbooth]

Hello again Mardi,

For the time scale you are now interested in, you will have to look at the actual parish registers. I don't know whereabouts you are in Australia, but the LDS have filmed certain Herefordshire parishes and these can be ordered and viewed in situ at your local LDS Family History Centre. If you visit the Family Search webpage, there is a search facility for your nearest Family History Centre. You can also search from their Home page to see which parishes in Herefordshire they have filmed. Click on the Family History Library Catalogue link, then Place search and enter in the parish. This should then tell you which parishes the LDS have filmed. You can also see what records Herefordshire FHS have transcribed and also what Parish Chest have available.

Good luck

Janet

[mardi]

Thankyou Janet for the great assistance you have given me regarding Brennand and Norsworthy.I shall follow up on your advice.
I am also trying to find information about a George Sutton who was born in Burtonwood, Warrington, Chesire well thats what is on his death cetificate here in Aust, also on the certif are parents named Peter Sutton and Mary Dutton. George was born c 1812 and was convicted of stealing and given a 14 year sentence and transported to Aust.I have been unable to discover any marriage for a Peter Sutton /Mary Dutton.
Can you tell me where I am likely to find records of Birth, Marriage Death for that area please
Thankyou
Lynn

[birdlip]

Hello Lynne,

this looks like the marriage on IGI family search;

Peter Sutton m Mary Dutton 28 May 1799 Winwick, Lancashire

regards birdlip

[birdlip]

Children of the marriage;

Ellen Sutton christened 29 Nov 1807 Burtonwood Lancs/ Cheshire*
John Sutton b 05 Jul 1810, ch 22 Jul 1810 Burtonwood Lancs
George Sutton b 11 Dec 1812, ch 13 Dec 1812 Burtonwood Lancs
Mary Ann Sutton ch 11 Dec 1814 Daresbury Cheshire

* one record says Burtonwood is in Cheshire, another says Lancs, I imagine it's on the border and the county boundaries changed over time. Burtonwood is about 5 miles from Winwick, where the marriage took place, both places are in the Warrington district. Daresbury is a bit further South. There would have been earlier children I'm sure, but I can't find them at the moment. I'll keep looking...

[mardi]

Hello Birdlip,
I want to thankyou ever so much for the information you have sent to me it will be the biggest help ever in putting the family tree together, I am truly very greatful.
Do you know where I can contact in Cheshire to see if I can find any record regarding George Sutton being convicted and sentence to transported to Aust on the ship Royal Admiral
His ticket of leave record states he was tried at Liverpool on 1 February 1830and then further down it states place of trial, Lancaster and a word I cant decipher, (maybe sessions) and that he had a former conviction, 6 months.
Once again thankyou for your wonderful assistance, wish I could get to Cheshire myself.
Mardi

[birdlip]

Hello Mardi/Lynn,

I'm glad you're pleased with the marriage and with George's siblings. I did find one more child of Peter Sutton and Mary, probably the youngest;

William Sutton ch 13 Feb 1820 St James Liverpool

I searched on A2A for George's trials and came up with the following, it looks like the one in 1830, and two prior, not just one;

Lancashire Quarter Sessions. Catalogue Ref Q

PETITIONS Kirkdale Michaelmas 1827 Ref QSP/2889/125
FILE: Bill of costs of prosecution of George Sutton date c 1827

PETITIONS Kirkdale Epiphany 1829 Ref QSP/2909/81
FILE: Bill of costs of prosecution of George Sutton and Thomas Leyland date c 1828

PETITIONS Kirkdale Epiphany 1830 Ref QSP/2925/147
FILE: Bill of costs of prosecution of George Sutton and Thomas Davies date c 1830

These records are held at the Lancashire record Office, if you go to www.archives.lancashire.gov.uk you'll be able to find their email address, and postal address, and hopefully you'll be able to order the records directly from them, quoting the catalogue ref numbers.

good luck!

regards birdlip

[mardi]

Helo Ruby,
For the marriage you have found for Peter Sutton and Mary Dutton on IGI would you be able to give me the batch number etc so that if its possible I can send in and get a copy from the register book.
Thankyou very much for finding the information for me I am ever so greatful as I have been looking for ages and have found nothing.
Mardi

[mardi]

Hello Birdlip,
I am even more thrilled now because all the information you sent regarding Georges trial has just arrived, I am over the moon and cant thankyou enough.
I will send off for the records as soon as I possibly can.
Mardi/Lynn

[birdlip]

Hi again...

Peter and Mary's marriage;

Batch No: M014424, Dates 1741-1799, Source call No: 146906
Type: Film
Printout call No: NONE

best of luck with it all,

birdlip

[blue eyes]

Here are William and Mary in 1901.

Civil parish Birkenhead
Reg district Birkenhead

William HG Nosworthy age 42 born Stoke Damerel Devon occ labourer general
Mary wife age 42 born Kingsland
Andrew J Kelly boarder

There is a death for a Gertrude A Norsworthy 1892 district Birkenhead Apr/May/June 1/4.

[mardi]

Hi everyone,
Thankyou to Birdlip and Blue eyes for the wonderful information I have received from you both overnight.
Having been stuck for the last few years with these two families I am hopefully about to get a bit further with my research due to the wonderful assistance you have all given me
Thankyou again
Mardi

[mardi]

Hi all,
Would anyone have the early census for the Warrington area to see if Peter Sutton wife Mary and any of his family are on it please
Mardi