Rogate v. Beaujule

[kellybc]

I'm researching an Edward Kemp, I have documentation suggesting he was born in Rogate, W. Sussex / Hampshire border. When I search on familysearch.org, 1881 census, I find the Edward Kemp I'm looking for with a birthplace of Beaujule, Sussex.

Has anyone got an explanation of this birthplace. I can't find anywhere in Sussex/Hampshire that could be mis-transcribed into Beaujule. I've also searched the name using Google and all I come up with is a reference to Wine (Beaujule Villages).

Can anyone help in this matter?

[Di&Trev]

Had a look on the original image its either Beaujule or possibly Beaufule, neither of which helps does it? Can't make out wifes birthplace either.
Do you have him on the 1871? Was he married in 1871 if not do you know his parents names? I'll have a look on 1871 on ancestry for you if you have any other info.But there are an awful lot of Kemps so it would help if you could pin it down a bit.

[kellybc]

The Edward Kemp I'm looking for was born between 1840 & 1850 there is conflicting evidence of his age. His age on his marriage cert. 1870 in Froyle, Hampshire, shows he was 30 (born 1840), other census records for instance 1881 show him as 34 ie born in 1847 (another mystery). He married a Rhoda Rowell from Froyle. The 1871 Census shows them living in Islington, London/Middlesex and the 1881 census has them in Hornsey Road, London. Edward Kemps father was John Kemp. This is as much as I know about the Kemps. I have very good data on the Rowells from the Froyle website which has very comprehensive data of BMD and Heads of Family's etc. from parish records.

Appreciate your help.

[Di&Trev]

Hi Kelly
Don't know if this is any use to you but I found them on the 1901 census as follows:
Edward is listed as a Navvy and the 18yr old son George as a gardeners labourer. Living at 48 Gordon or Jordon Road.
Even though Edward is listed as being from Roagate in Essex its def Sussex on original image
Ascar Holly 7 Hornsey, Middlesex, England Grandson Hornsey Middlesex
Harry Holly 5 Hornsey, Middlesex, England Grandson Hornsey Middlesex
Edward Kemp 58 Roagate, Essex, England Head Hornsey Middlesex
George Kemp 18 Holloway, London, England Son Hornsey Middlesex
Rodah Kemp 50 Froyle, Hampshire, England Wife Hornsey Middlesex
Harry Parrot 50 Luton, Bedfordshire, England Boarder Hornsey Middlesex
William Potter 34 Thorpe, Essex, England Boarder Hornsey Middlesex
Source information: RG13/1241
Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Hornsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Folio: 32
Page: 55 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 316

Sorry I couldn't shed any light on Beaujule, maybe his family worked at a country house called that or something similar. I had an instance of that in my tree.

[Di&Trev]

This is from BIVRI
KEMP, Edward Christened 1848 Engl Suss Rye
Father: John KEMP
Mother: Elizabeth
Ties in with this from BMD
Name: KEMP, Edward
Record Type: Births
Quarter: December
Year: 1847
District: Rye
County: Kent Sussex
Volume: 7
Page: 462

But its a bit of a distance from Rogate.
Can't find any born in Midhurst registration district (which coovers Rogate) in 1840-1847 under Edward but if Edward is middle name there are 3 possibles I've found, probably more if I keep looking..
William Sept 1843. Vol 7 page 517. Midhurst. Sussex
George Sept 1843. Vol 7 Page 40. Midhurst
Henry June 1843 Vol 7 Page 899. Midhurst

[kellybc]

A Big thankyou to Di&Trev for there efforts in helping me. Your second response was most fruitful. Although there are transcription errors in the info you provided it was enough for me to get another piece of the jigsaw at least slotted in and to be confirmed at a later date.

Ascar (Oscar) and Harry Holly (Hally or Holley) are the Nephews of Edward and I've traced his sisters marriage to a Jesse Daniel Holley of Wiltshire.

Shame I didn't get an answer to Beaujule, however, this extra info has spurred me on again.

Merry Christmas

[Geoffers]

I'm researching an Edward Kemp, I have documentation suggesting he was born in Rogate, W. Sussex / Hampshire border. When I search on familysearch.org, 1881 census, I find the Edward Kemp I'm looking for with a birthplace of Beaujule, Sussex. Has anyone got an explanation of this birthplace. I can't find anywhere in Sussex/Hampshire that could be mis-transcribed into Beaujule.
Bearing in mind that you've looked at a transcription rather than the original document, I'd suggest that this may well be a misinterpretation of Rogate.

The capital 'R' was often written with a flourish - a loop at the end of the tail on the bottom right of the letter. This loop can be easily mistaken for an additional letter 'e' and if the letter was feint or written in a certain way, it can look similar to a 'B'. So that may make a place name that seems to begin 'Be'. The vowels are frequently hard to read, so an 'o' being read as an 'a' is no surprise.

The letter 'g' can also be hard to read, and whilst more commonly mistaken as 'ij' - if there is a mark on the original census , it may well have been read as 'uj'. There is then a vowel o/u which as I have mentioned can be mistaken; 't' was often written without a cross-bar, so that it would look like 'l' and both names end in 'e'.

The answer is to look at the original census return, but it would be no great shock to me if it was actually Rogate.

Geoffers

[kellybc]

Thanks Geoffers, This was one of the possibilities I was working on, but I thought I would ask the question to see if it dug up anything.

[Annie]

Hi Kelly
I've looked at the 1881 census and tried to attach the image of where Edmund Kemp was born, unsuccessfully :( , it certainly don't look like Rogate though. If you would like the 1871 and 1881 image from Ancestry let me know.

Annie

[kellybc]

Hi Annie, I've now checked the original 1881 record and you're right it definately doesn't look like Rogate or meet Geoffers explanation. It does look very much like as I first stated Beaujule, so I appear to be no further on. Di&Trev's response regarding a house name is something to consisder though.

Would appreciate details of your 1871 find on Ancestry, I couldn't dig up anything.

[Jane M]

My first thought as I read your original message was, BEAULIEU in Hampshire, what do you think?
Jane

[Geoffers]

Hi Annie, I've now checked the original 1881 record and you're right it definately doesn't look like Rogate or meet Geoffers explanation. It does look very much like as I first stated Beaujule,
Glad someone's been able to look at the original entry to check out ideas. Maybe the enumerator had problems reading the original schedule and transcribed what he thought was written into the census book? In that case, it may be one of those mysteries which will remain unanswered.
Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[kellybc]

Thanks Jane M for your thoughts, I also came across Beaulieu when I was scouring the map for likely transcription errors. I'm going to stick with Rogate as the birthplace as I have at least two documents which show this, as Geoffers says it will probably remain a mistery.

Thanks for everyones input,