Banksman

[nina]

Can anyone shed any light on this occupation. The person inquestion started off as Ag labourer, became a waiter then Banksman. The enumerator or someone at a later date put the initials IM in brackets next to the occ.

Nina

[Alan Welsford]

Well I believe these days it's the person in charge of craning operations.

That is the person, in a position of good visibility on the ground who actually signals to the crane operator what movements to make to pick up or set down a load safely.

Whether this has anything to do with your mans trade, I'm more doubtful !

Alan.

[Alan Welsford]

He wasn't from a mining area, was he ?

Banksman / Bank Manager / Browman

"In charge of the cages at mine pitheads"

Alan

[harfin]

Banksman. . . . it's the person in charge of craning operations.


My understanding is that it's (nowadays) a bit more general than craning. It's usually given to describe a person who acts as a second pair of eyes (and controller!) to anyone operating any sort of machine or vehicle where the operator for whatever reason has restricted visibility.

Thus a reversing lorry, bus or similar, on industrial sites could be a forklift truck and so on.

Alan

[Peter_uk_can]

I hve also seen it with reference to the railways. It seems to be someone who is responsible for giving instruction to others that it is safe / clear to carryout the movement or operation of mechanical equipment.

e.g. Mine winding gear, Locomotives, Cranes, Vehicles.

I haven't googled it at this time, but I am sure there wil be something there.

[Alan Welsford]

I would still be interested if it has a mining connection.

The 'IM' added later could be "in mine" possibly ?

If it is mining connected, there is some very full information here....

http://www.mininginstitute.org.uk/library/definitions/Bank.html

[uksearch]

From Old Occupations:

Banksman

The banksman used to collect the miners' brass tallies as they went underground and came up. Systems differed - but basically, in case of accident, it was necessary to know who was underground on every shift - a series of brass tallies of different shapes, according to their purpose, but all stamped with the miner's individual number and the name of the mine, were used. These tallies are now collectors' items - I expect most miners will have kept their wages tally when they finished working in the pits.

The banksman also regulated the numbers going into each cage for the descent and ascent of the mine.
====================
The "bank" was sometimes used to refer to the surface - so Banker could also have been a local term for a general surface worker. They shifted materials, coal, and did general labouring on the surface.

[Neil Wilson]

Banksman - UK's answer is the one for olden days, the rest cover modern days plus more.

What I am wondering is whether the initials IM appear next to the occupation anywhere else on that census?

[uksearch]

Banksman - UK's answer is the one for olden days, the rest cover modern days plus more.

What I am wondering is whether the initials IM appear next to the occupation anywhere else on that census?


Yup, you are perfectly correct...I should stated that I was answering Alan's point.

UK

[Alan Welsford]

Well if you look at the link I posted, then the definition of Banksman in there is one taken from 1871.

So not that modern days, really ;)

[nina]

That's a lot of info you have all privided me with. The area he lived in did have mines - iron ore mainly. For those of you interested in the IM bit this is the census

1881 census - George Dale, 1842 living at Boosebeck Rd, Skelton
Piece: 4841; Folio: 132

Many thanks
Nina

[Alan Welsford]

As there are others appearing as "Iron Miner" on the same page, I'm pretty confident that the Banksman has been marked up retrospectively as "IM" for Iron Miner.

The enumerators had to standardise the occupations to some degree when tallying everybody up, and I think a decision has been taken to count George Dale in with the Iron Miners.

A.

[mfwebb]

From my experience as a mining surveyor in coal mines during the 1960's, the Banksman was the man who collected the identity tags at the surface as the miners entered the cage to go down the mine shaft. When they were safely locked in the cage he would signal to the winding house to start the descent. He would also signal to the bottom of the shaft that the cage was on its way down. There was a button and bell system for signalling.

The man at the bottom of the shaft was called the Onsetter. When all the men had alighted from the cage and others had got on at the end of their shift, the Onsetter would signal to the Banksman that it was safe to wind the cage up the shaft. The Banksman would then signal to the winding house to start the ascent.

The same system would also be used for winding coal tubs up and down the shaft during the 19th and early 20th centuries -- full ones up and empty ones down, although the "empties" were usually used to transport supplies and materials underground.

[Peter_uk_can]

Having worked in the coal industry myself I can concur with Malcolm's definitons of a Banksman etc.

I seem to remember that this occupation was discussed on another posting.

Those who know about the industry would understand that the position of Banksman has a quite high level of responsibility. I seem to remember that where I worked, and there were 3 shafts, the positions were held by mature persons who were perhaps through some minor incapacity were not best suited for heavy work.

[uksearch]

From my experience as a mining surveyor in coal mines during the 1960's, the Banksman was the man who collected the identity tags at the surface as the miners entered the cage to go down the mine shaft. When they were safely locked in the cage he would signal to the winding house to start the descent. He would also signal to the bottom of the shaft that the cage was on its way down. There was a button and bell system for signalling.

The man at the bottom of the shaft was called the Onsetter. When all the men had alighted from the cage and others had got on at the end of their shift, the Onsetter would signal to the Banksman that it was safe to wind the cage up the shaft. The Banksman would then signal to the winding house to start the ascent.

The same system would also be used for winding coal tubs up and down the shaft during the 19th and early 20th centuries -- full ones up and empty ones down, although the "empties" were usually used to transport supplies and materials underground.

Malcolm Webb
Lincoln UK

So...the Old Occupations Site definition seems to have applied to both old and (fairly) recent times, but as others have stated, it did also apply to matters appertaining to the use of cranes or machines of a similar type. I remember as a student working on the construction of what was then know as the M63/M56 interchange near to my location. If my memory is correct, the slopes at the side of the Motorways were designed to be at a certain angle and I think they used a machine called something similar to an RB22. The operator of the machine had an oppo who was known as a banksman. The memory does fade so I may have got it slightly wrong.

UK

[nina]

Thanks for all that wonderful information. If anyone wants to look at the IM mentioned, the census 1881 for George Dale 1842 living at Boosebeck Road, Skelton
RG11, piece 4841, folio 132

Nina

[Peter_uk_can]

Hi Nina... Have you looked at this site. ?

http://www.dmm2.org.uk/census/name_dal.htm

[nina]

Thanks for the link Peter. I have been on the webiste before to look at the In Memorium pages but had no idea I could actually access a list of miners and mines where they worked. Thanks to you I can now complete some more details on my family history by entering which mines they were employed
in

Nina