THOMAS POOLE..1806..MASTER MASON

[susan-y]

|help|
My husband's gg grandfather Thomas Poole, born 1806 in Gloustershire was a master mason upon his arrival in Canada. I am wondering where he would have learned his trade and if I can find records of this.
Thanks
Sue

[birdlip]

Hi Sue,

I have a couple of families of stonemasons in my tree. The trade was often passed down through the generations, from father to son(s) and/or nephews. In these cases, unfortunately no formal records of apprenticeship were written.

regards birdlip

[birdlip]

...you may be able to find him or his family in a Trade Directory though. When did he arrive in Canada?

[susan-y]

He first sailed to New York, but didn't find work there so he came to Toronto in the late 1820's...I believe. ( I haven't found him on a ship's list,yet) He was given the job of building a house for Robert Copeland who was given 200 acres in what is now Mississauga. The land was given to Copeland for fighting with the Loyalists. The house is now a "heritage house" in part of a booming city!
He also married Robert Copeland's daughter Mary and that begins another long story in the family!
I believe he came from Mailenbury? Gloucestershire, ( according to family documents)but as I have yet to get his marriage registration I haven't been able to completely trace his heritage in England....I don't know his parents names ...it is said that he had 2 sisters in England.

[birdlip]

I think that would have to be Malmesbury.

[birdlip]

hmmm...Malmesbury's in Wiltshire, so that can't be right. Though its right on the border with Gloucestershire, so perhaps the border has changed over time? I can't think of anywhere else, unless its the name of a tiny hamlet that doesn't exist any more.

[susan-y]

Thanks for your suggestions....I'll keep digging..I have looked at some of the trade lists, but so far they are all after he would have left England. Perhaps the borders have changed..seems to me I did read that they had when scrolling through some information under Price & A..... Lot's of stuff to read there. It's just sooooo interesting and there's not enough hours in a day to work on our puzzles.. if only I was independantly wealthy maybe I could have time to search it all!!!!!

[betty judge]

|help|
My husband's gg grandfather Thomas Poole, born 1806 in Gloustershire was a master mason upon his arrival in Canada. I am wondering where he would have learned his trade and if I can find records of this.
Thanks
Sue

I think John Poole was b in Maisemore Goucestershire, and his family is thus:

John Poole b abt 1770 Maisemore and his wife Eleanor b abt 1774 Maisemore They had 6 children:
John Poole bap 24 july 1796 Maisemore (poss died bef 1807)
Thomas Poole bap 3 june 1798 Maisemore
Ann Poole bap 26 Oct 1800 Maisemore
Joseph Poole bap 10 april 1893 Maisemore
THOMAS POOLE bap 12 april 1805 Maisemore
John Poole bap 27 May 1807 Maisemoe Glos.

The Poole's are first baptised in 1672 at Maisemore .

I could not find any Pooles elsewhere ,

There are many men in Glousesteshire, (Cliffords among them) that were master Masons. Their houses were built with lovely blocks of golden coloured stone. Most were apprenticed to either their fathers or to local Stone masons.
I hope this will help you
Betty Judge.

[susan-y]

Hello Betty...

Thankyou for a promising lead!|hug|

Thomas Poole built a fantastic home for Robert Copeland in 1837 in what is now Mississauga Ont. The house is now classed as a Heritage home... so it is privatly owned, but protected, as it is one of the oldest homes in the area. In 1838 Thomas married Robert's daughter, Mary and a few generations later along came my husband !!!! There are a couple of interesting websites about the family, but nothing goes back beyond Thomas on the Poole side.

When I have a bit more time I shall certainly check into this information further.

Thankyou, again :D Now I don't want to go out in the cold to pay bills and buy groceries..... this is so addictive.|biggrin||biggrin|

Sue

[bec123]

Just wondering if anyone had any further information for Robert and Thomas Copeland. Does anyone know where in england they were from.

Thanks

Brant Copeland

[susan-y]

Just wondering if anyone had any further information for Robert and Thomas Copeland. Does anyone know where in england they were from.

Thanks

Brant Copeland

Hi|wave| and welcome...

I have sent you a private message.

Sue

[susan-y]

I have recently been sent some interesting information on a Thomas Poole born in Tetbury, Gloucestershire which I understand is very near Malmesbury, Wiltshire. Does anyone know of that family? This Thomas had an older brother who was William who was born in Tetbury and moved to live and later die in Malmesbury. Their parents were Edward Poole and Mary Butler and apparantly in the 1841 census the father's address is next door to Highgrove House.
I really would love to have the time to get back to searching some more... maybe after Christmas???
Anyway....if anyone has any information I would be very thankful.

Sue

[janbooth]

There is an extracted marriage record on the IGI of a John POOL and an Eleanor WOOD on 6 August 1792 at Hartpury which is very close to Maisemore that could be relevant to you.

Janet

[janbooth]

Sue,

Extracted baptism for Thomas POOL on 27 November 1808 at Tetbury, father Edward mother Mary. Siblings are Jane bap 7 March 1802, Dennis 11 Mar 1803, Ann 16 Sep 1804, Eliza 25 Dec 1806, Mary 2 July 1810 & Richard 5 Apr 1812.

This looks like Edward & family in the 1841 census of Tetbury:

HO107/362/12, folio 9, page 11
Underbridge Lane

Edward POOL 65 Mason
Mary do 60
Ann do 30
Eliza do 25
John do 24 Ag Labourer
Adam do 20 do
William COOK 14 do

All born in the county. The next house down is Highgrove Lodge and the following one that of Highgrove House. Sounds interesting that Edward's profession was that of a Mason doesn't it. According to Phillimores Marriage Index Edward POOLE married Mary BUTLER at Kingscote on 29 November 1798 and there is an extracted baptism on the IGI at Kingscote of a William POOLE, son Edward & Mary, on 15 September 1799. There are POOLE marriage records on the Phillimores Marriage Index at Tetbury from 1640 so they look as if they go quite a way back there.

The Gloucestershire Burial Index has a burial for an Edward POOLE at Tetbury on 10 September 1848, aged 74.

HTH further

Janet

[susan-y]

Thank you Janet

With such common names this is a hard family to trace and see if we have the correct one. I appreciate what you have unearthed and will check it all out as well.

Another question ... is Phillimores marriage Index online?

This distant cousin of my husband's also said he found a possible Thomas, arriving in New York in 1836, however he was travelling with an Elizabeth Pool and wondered if he had married in England and then she died after arriving in North America as he married Mary Copeland. I think this ( Thomas on ship's list) is the wrong Thomas, but would like to be certain.

Thanks again for the information... |hug|

Sue

[janbooth]

Hi Sue,

If you Google Phillimores Marriage Index it will bring up online resources for you. I think some of them are pay per view but you can also buy cds of various counties. Have a look on BGs sponsors site "The Parish Chest" for cds available to purchase.

Janet

[janbooth]

Another thought Sue. Have you found the marriage certificate for Thomas & Mary COPELAND because that should give you his father's name and profession, if, that is, American marriage certificates contain the same amount of information as English ones.

Janet

[susan-y]

Hi Janet..

There's a few of us working on this family.. don't know if we can get a marriage certificate or not... this marriage took place in Upper Canada..late 1830's... not alot of paper trails. I doubt his parents are even mentione as they were back in England. I know my gr.grandparents were married in 1862 and all I have on their records is their paren'ts first names..no residence, occupation or anything!

We will keep searching...

Thanks again for your suggestions and information.

Sue

[TrevorFranklin]

Sue
I descend from the Pooles that you are talking about.
Can go back as far as Edward and Mary.
William was my 3xGt Grandfather.

Regards
Trev


I have recently been sent some interesting information on a Thomas Poole born in Tetbury, Gloucestershire which I understand is very near Malmesbury, Wiltshire. Does anyone know of that family? This Thomas had an older brother who was William who was born in Tetbury and moved to live and later die in Malmesbury. Their parents were Edward Poole and Mary Butler and apparantly in the 1841 census the father's address is next door to Highgrove House.
I really would love to have the time to get back to searching some more... maybe after Christmas???
Anyway....if anyone has any information I would be very thankful.

Sue

[susan-y]

Sue
I descend from the Pooles that you are talking about.
Can go back as far as Edward and Mary.
William was my 3xGt Grandfather.

Regards
Trev

Hi Trev....

Do you know if the Thomas I am searching is a member of your family of Pooles? Or.... Is my hubby's distant cousin following the wrong family?

Thanks..

Sue

[BillJ]

Sue
I descend from the Pooles that you are talking about.
Can go back as far as Edward and Mary.
William was my 3xGt Grandfather.

Regards
Trev

Hello Trev,

I am the cousin of Sue's husband who has been searching for the parentage of Thomas Poole (my gg grandfather). Thomas of Tetbury appears to be a likely match on several counts. However, the picture of Thomas as supplied by another Poole descendant is somewhat puzzling as he looks to have non- white European facial features. Might you happen to have any family pictures of your ggg grandfather William or his children?

Regards,
Bill

[TrevorFranklin]

Hi Bill/Sue


William Poole and Mary Butler, according to parish records and census images, had 15 children.
Their first son was William born 1799 and died 1858. He was a stone mason

The next son was Dennis, born 1803. He moved to Monmouthshire and was a stone mason. (I have a contact Cathy Susan who descends from his line)
The Thomas that you speak of was born c1808 in Tetbury.

There are a number of Poole families in the Tetbury/Malmesbury/Crudwell area, who were involved in stone masonry, but no further Thomas' appear.

I know of the image that you are refering to, as I have a copy (source Audry ORegan), and agree it looks more Afrocaribean than European and doubt it is a correct image.
I know that the Thomas that you are referring to left England for New York in April of 1836, but have not done anything on following up, as my main line is from his brother William (1799). Have you seen a copy of the passenger list, as these give age in most cases, so could be cross referenced with known DoB?

My William married Esther Garrett 1823 in Tetbury.
They had 12 children, one being Eliza, born 1834 in Crudwell.
SHe had two illegitimate children, in both cases, father unknown, as the workhouse records were destroyed.
Denis born 1852 (in Brokenborugh workhouse)
Edwin Julian 1855.

Denis was my Gt grandfather, images of him and my Grandfather Frederick Bruce Poole can be found at this website address
http://www.pursglove.talktalk.net/pooles%20of%20Malmesbury/Cover.htm

I do know that two of Denis' sons (William and Alfred) emigrated to Canada, Arthur in 1911 and William in 1922.
Arthur's descendents still live in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan

Hope this helps in some way?

I also have some later photographs of William in Canada and of the descendents of Arthur, but would need an email address to send them to if you PM me.

Regards
Trevor

[susan-y]

Hello Trev,

I am the cousin of Sue's husband who has been searching for the parentage of Thomas Poole (my gg grandfather). Thomas of Tetbury appears to be a likely match on several counts. However, the picture of Thomas as supplied by another Poole descendant is somewhat puzzling as he looks to have non- white European facial features. Might you happen to have any family pictures of your ggg grandfather William or his children?

Regards,
Bill

Hey Bill!

Welcome to the forum.....|wave|

Maybe we will find some answers yet! It sure would be great to go further back and I know my hubby would be thrilled if Trev can give us some answers. Unfortunatly it won't quit snowing in our lea of the lake area and hubby is one tired snow-plow operator. I'll email you shortly.

Sue

[susan-y]

Hello again, Trev!

Sorry, I forgot to welcome you to the forum as well|wave|
This is a great place to make alot of friends and receive as well as give some help along the way.
Thankyou so much for all the information you have given us. I know Bill has been working a long time on the Poole family and every once in awhile I will stick my 2 cents worth in. Not alot of help so far, but I am trying....After all, I have a Poole desendant for a husband and he just doesn't understnd why it is taking me so long to find out some information! Once I have digested some of this information I may send you a PM with my email so we can exchange more info.

Sue

[BillJ]

Hello Trev,

Thank you so much for the information and links to your Poole family.

Personally, I think there can be little doubt that our Thomas is your ggg grandfather's brother.

1/ Location - family account says he was from Malmesbury, Gloucestershire. Tetbury is on the outskirts of Malmesbury, Wiltshire but on the Gloucestershire side.

2/ Profession - Stonemason - Thomas of Tebury's father & brothers were stonemasons so he was likely a stonemason.

3/ Thomas of Tetbury Emigrated: Thomas does not appear on English records after 1840 so he must have either emigrated or died but I can find no record of his death.

4/ Age: Thomas Pool, age 28, arrived in New York on the Barque Union on the 7th of June 1836. Family account says he arrived in New York mid June 1836 - a match. This is also a match for the Baptism year of Thomas in Tetbury - 1808. 1808 is also the birth year of our Thomas on a Canadian census although this date differs from his death certificate which indicates an 1806 birth. I don't know if baptisms are always within one year of birth?

If the Thomas Poole on the Barque Union from England arriving June 1836 happened to be another Thomas Poole who coincidentally arrived at the same time as mine and was coincidentally the same age then that one would have likely remained in the US and would be on later US census records. I have searched the US records and there does not appear to be a Thomas Poole born in England of a similar age so I believe this is my Thomas whose age matches Thomas of Tetbury.

Thomas travelled with an Elizabeth Pool. If his wife she must have shortly died as he later married in 1838 or, alternatively, she may have been a relative but not his sister as
sister Elizabeth continued to live in England.

I am somewhat confused on Thomas & Williams father, Edward Poole. I looked at the IGI site and found 2 marriages for Edward Poole in Tetbury - 1806 to Lizzie Thornhill & 1818 to Maria Thornhill. Also the 1841 census has much younger ages from the baptism dates for Ann, Eliza & John although Adams is closer.

So if this is one Edward Poole it appears he married 3 times and the Mary Poole of the census & who died 1862 is Mary Thornhill and not Mary Butler. Whether the ages in the census are off or whether there were more later children using the same names as earlier siblings is another query or were there 3 different Edward Pooles in Tetbury? Don't know whether it is possible to sort out.

Thanks again for your help.

Regards,

Bill

[TrevorFranklin]

I am somewhat confused on Thomas & Williams father, Edward Poole. I looked at the IGI site and found 2 marriages for Edward Poole in Tetbury - 1806 to Lizzie Thornhill & 1818 to Maria Thornhill. Also the 1841 census has much younger ages from the baptism dates for Ann, Eliza & John although Adams is closer.

So if this is one Edward Poole it appears he married 3 times and the Mary Poole of the census & who died 1862 is Mary Thornhill and not Mary Butler. Whether the ages in the census are off or whether there were more later children using the same names as earlier siblings is another query or were there 3 different Edward Pooles in Tetbury? Don't know whether it is possible to sort out.



Taken from Peter Hancock's website for the ThornHills of Tetbury.
"A not uncommon practice occurred in 1806 and 1818, when Edward Pool(e) first married Eliza then her younger sister, Maria. Eliza had two children, Edward and Edwyn. The Christmas of 1811 was a tragic one for the Pool family. Edwyn was buried at twelve months old, on Christmas day, his mother being buried four days later. Eliza was buried as a pauper, reflecting the family’s financial circumstances at the time. In the 1851 census widow Maria was also recorded as a pauper."
Source: http://www.phancocks.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/familyhistory/thornhill/thorn2.htm

Trev

[TrevorFranklin]

I forgot to add, that the Parish transcripts list the marriage of Edward Poole to both Eliza and then Maria.
In his marriage to Eliza, he is listed as being a widower, so his marriage to Eliza was at least his second, with his later marriage to Eliza's sister (Maria) being his third.

The record of Edward's marriage to Eliza is the first time he appears in the Tetbury area, so it is assumed he came from outside of the area.

Ultimately, this is proving he is not our Edward

Trev

[susan-y]

I forgot to add, that the Parish transcripts list the marriage of Edward Poole to both Eliza and then Maria.
In his marriage to Eliza, he is listed as being a widower, so his marriage to Eliza was at least his second, with his later marriage to Eliza's sister (Maria) being his third.

The record of Edward's marriage to Eliza is the first time he appears in the Tetbury area, so it is assumed he came from outside of the area.

Ultimately, this is proving he is not our Edward

Trev

Just when I had printed everything off so I could sort it out I am now even more confused.............. |5cups|

Sue

[BillJ]

Hello Trev & other Poole descendants,

Several of the children listed as being of Edward Poole & Mary Butler appear not to have been theirs.

- Edward & Edwyn (as per the Thornhill Family Site) were the children of the other Edward Poole & wife Lizzie Thornhill.
- Timothy was the child of that Edward & his later wife Maria Thornhill.

Some Poole family trees show marriages for Ann & John but the 1861 census has them both in their 50's unmarried & living with their mother & John listed as 'blind from birth'.

So the 11 children of our Edward & Mary appear to be: William, Jane, Dennis, Ann, Eliza,
John, Thomas, Mary, Richard, Peter & Adam.

Bill

[TrevorFranklin]

Hello Trev & other Poole descendants,

Several of the children listed as being of Edward Poole & Mary Butler appear not to have been theirs.

- Edward & Edwyn (as per the Thornhill Family Site) were the children of the other Edward Poole & wife Lizzie Thornhill.
- Timothy was the child of that Edward & his later wife Maria Thornhill.

Some Poole family trees show marriages for Ann & John but the 1861 census has them both in their 50's unmarried & living with their mother & John listed as 'blind from birth'.

So the 11 children of our Edward & Mary appear to be: William, Jane, Dennis, Ann, Eliza,
John, Thomas, Mary, Richard, Peter & Adam.

Bill

Hi Bill
Though the children are on the Thornhill site, they have no positive proof that they were the children of Edward Poole and Maria Thornhill.
IGI has parents as Edward and mary.

For that reason, I have still kept them as children for our Edward and mary, but with a note to remind me of the other Edward and Mary (Maria), basically in either case it is a guess who the parents were.

trev

[tony poole]

My family are Poole' from Maisemore Gloucestershire. The furthest I have got back so far is to Jesse Poole b. 1818.

From various Census records, Jesse and his son Samuel b. 1853 are both listed as blacksmiths.

Samuels son, Thomas Ewart Poole b. 1887, (my grandfather) was apprenticed as an ironmonger in 1902.