View Full Version : William Rogers
02-04-2008, 10:42 AM
Hi I've hit a wall with my Gt GT Grandfather William Henry Rogers b.1791 Southill Beds, I think his father might have been a John Rogers b.1770 Cabinet Maker but can not confirm this, on LDS site JOHN ANDREW ROGERS
Christening: 19 FEB 1787 Southill, Bedford, England
Parents:Father: JOHN ROGERS could this be a brother to William, in 1841 cencus William is living in St Andrew the less Cambridge, William served in the 7th Foot Regiment from 1809 until 1838, I have his war records but they are hard to read!
Thanks for any info.
02-04-2008, 10:59 AM
Bedfordshire FHS has transcribed the parish registers of Southill and they can be bought online from The Parish Chest. From Hugh Wallis's IGI site, it looks as though there are ROGERS in Southill way back to the early 1600s, so purchasing the PR transcriptions could be well worth your while.
02-04-2008, 1:52 PM
Virtually all of Beds pre 1812 has been extracted onto the IGI and all parish registers up to 1812 have been transcribed by Bedford Records Office and are available in either fiche format from Beds FHS and BLARS, or as hard copy from BLARS.
But what's wrong with the William Rogers baptised 16 Oct 1791 at Southill, son of John & Elizabeth, on the IGI? The transcript referred to by Janet adds that John was a farmer, the same as for John Andrew in 1787, Samuel in 1789, and Jane in 1796. As this was the only Rogers family baptising children in Southill at this time it seems very probable that he's the William in Cambridge in 1851
I don't think these Rogers were from Southill though as there are no Rogers in the transcript after a burial in 1708 until John Andrew in 1787. Where was the 1770 birth of John the cabinet maker? I can't see it in Beds, and the occupation of cabinet maker seems a far cry from farmer, and his age makes me question whether he is likely to have been a father by Feb 1887. I can't find a marriage that fits, nor were there burials in Southill of a John or Elizabeth. In fact the Rogers seemed to disappear from Southill! I'll do some more digging and see if I can come up with anything. By 1851 the only Rogers in Southill was Patsey, who I think was Martha, who was lodging with John Faulkner, my 1st cousin 5 times removed. Rogers must be one of the few families in Southill that I'm not connected to!
02-04-2008, 5:46 PM
This is being typed as I work so it might be a bit disjointed!
Looking laterally in Southill for other Rogers there was a Thomas Rogers who married Martha Sarl in 1798 but he appears to have been buried in 1805 with no age being shown. He was otp on marriage. Martha stayed in Southill where she appears in 1841/51. On the IGI there’s a Thomas Rogers baptised 25 July 1779 at Biggleswade, son of John and Elizabeth, which is beginning to look interesting! This John & Elizabeth baptised 4 children in Biggleswade 1779-85 (Thomas, Susan, Sarah, Robert), but in each case John is described as victualler (I have Biggleswade transcript as well, plus a lot more!). Southill parish register shows baptisms of 5 children to John & Elizabeth 1787-95 (John Andrew, William, Samuel, Jane, Lydia –died as a baby).
The other marriage in Southill was Elizabeth Rogers in 1797, to Joseph Chew. Unfortunately she’s not one of the four children of John & Elizabeth baptised in Biggleswade. Equally unfortunately the Beds transcripts do not include witnesses at marriages, as these might be informative.
A census was taken in Southill in 1801 which can be found at
Mr Rogers, farmer, had 11 in his household in Broom, 4 males and 7 females.
Playing devil’s advocate let’s say the Biggleswade John, who baptised 4 children, had a career change and moved to Broom, all of 2 miles away, where he baptised a further 5 children, one of whom was dead by 1801, and Thomas Rogers had married and with his family was living separately in Broom. That still only adds up to 9 people. Other houses with lodgers were so indicated in the census.
In 1851 there’s a John Rogers 65 blacksmith living in Dry Drayton, Cambs, who gives his birthplace as Broom, Beds. Broom is a hamlet in Southill so this may well be John Andrew Rogers. (He was also in Dry Drayton in 1841). I get suspicious about coincidences, and that’s two brothers from Southill living in Cambs in 1851, so think I'll have a closer look at Cambs, as I still can’t find burials of John and Elizabeth in Southill, or a marriage, as all of the other John/Elizabeth marriages are accounted for.
There were very few Robert Rogers’ around and no marriages/burials or census appearances in Beds that match. But there is a Robert Rogers age 42 buried at Bourn, Cambs on 14 Feb 1827, “of Long Stanton”. (I’ve also got ancestors from Bourn so happen to have this transcript as well). The Robert baptised in Biggleswade was in 1785 so the age fits. Bourn to Biggleswade is about 11 miles. There’s a marriage in Bourn on 20 Sept 1773, John Rogers and Elizabeth Darlow. This couple baptised Elizabeth Rogers on 28 Dec 1777 at Bourn……and then no more. What odds this is the Elizabeth who married in Southill in 1797?
An Elizabeth Rogers age 83, widow of John, was buried at Bourn on 25 Dec 1836. But where’s John buried???
Bourn PR has been extracted onto the IGI so you can easily double check all the Bourn references.
Looks feasible so far, but proving it might (WILL) be a bit more difficult!
But guess who was living in Bourn in 1851 – loads of Chews born in …..BROOM, Beds. Said I didn’t like coincidences. The earliest Chew in Bourn PR is the baptism of John Chew in 1805, son of Elizabeth Chew, baseborn. I can’t find a burial of Joseph Chew, but it looks as though this is Elizabeth Rogers who married in Southill. There’s an Elizabeth Chew who married William Saywell in Bourn in 1818 (William widower, no marital status for Elizabeth, one of the witnesses was David Darlow), and they appear in Bourn in 1841, William 65, Elizabeth 63 born in Cambs, plus Elizabeth Chew 40, Catherine Chew 30, Jane Chew 10, Mary Chew 6, John Chew 3.
I’m sure that if you follow the other Rogers children born in Biggleswade and Sarah they’ll probably lead you to Cambs. Needs a lot of work to prove it all, but it hangs together.
Shout if you need anything checked
03-04-2008, 11:12 AM
Hi David and Janet thanks for your promt replys, I can't remember where I got John 1770 from now, prehaps I was clutching at straws on one of the web sites, I really need to get to Beds Record office but children to young at mo, to get a chance. I will look through your replys and see if I can piece anything together, William Henry Rogers son Arthur Samuel Rogers was b.1846 New St. St. Andrew the Less, and on it his dad married a Mary Ann nee Gordon this was in Birmingham Dec 1838 William was discharged from the army in Nov 1838 at Dublin, Mary Ann was born in Jersey so another brickwall! Mary Ann was listed as nurse in 1861 and 1871 William is listed as color Sargeant pensioner 1851 and Chelsea Pensioner 1861 so I persume they met when he was injured?
03-04-2008, 11:18 AM
On a similar subject my husband has ancestors born in Northill William Toy b.1850 his father was Jesse Toy b.1808 Northill his father William Toy b.1786 Northill, spooky our ancestors were villages next to each other!
14-02-2009, 11:24 PM
Hi, I've hit a similar wall following the Rogers's of Potton. There was a Rogers family cluster from about 1770s to c. 1830/40s in Potton. The furthest I can get back is John 'the Elder' Rogers - a cooper in Potton. He died in 1829 and was born in c.1754. He had a sister call Ann - later Page. I've looked in and around the area and seem to come back to either Northill and Southill is most probably where he was born. Interestly his sons became cabinet makers. One of his sons was William b.1779 and married Jemima Baldock.
Hope it helps
17-03-2009, 12:32 PM
John "The Elder" was my 4th gt grandfather. (BTW, where did you find the details calling him "The Elder" and his trade as a cooper?)
I believe he was born in Campton, Bedfordshire in 1753 and died in Potton in 1829. He married Elizabeth White in 1778 and they had 7 children. I have quite a lot of detail. Send me your email address and I will reply with a GEDCOM of my research.
Andrew Francis Race Rogers.
17-03-2009, 9:43 PM
If you’re referring to the marriage of John Rogers and Elizabeth White at Croydon cum Clapton, Cambs, in 1778, there are two big leaps of faith here, unless there is further evidence to support the hypothesis!
1. That it was John Rogers of Campton who married Elizabeth White.
2. That it was this couple who were the ones who baptised children in Potton
1.If the Croydon marriage entry states “John Rogers of Campton” then you’re home and dry. If not there’s a more likely marriage for the Campton John Rogers, to Elizabeth Devonshire, at Meppershall, next door to Campton, in 1777. There’s no John Rogers baptised in Meppershall. There’s a John Rogers age 86 buried at Meppershall on 18 Jan 1838, which is also pretty well spot on for a baptism on 19 Feb 1753. There’s also a John Rogers buried in Campton in 1779 whose baptism I can’t trace. Campton and Meppershall parish registers really need checking to see exactly what they say about the various John Rogers entries. Both the Potton and Meppershall couples named their first son William, the Campton John’s father. So traditional naming patterns could apply to either
2.It’s much more likely that the Croydon couple were the ones in Potton, less than 8 miles away. Croydon parish register has been extracted onto the IGI and there are no Rogers baptisms, and the first Potton baptism is at the right time. In fact there are no earlier Rogers entries in Potton, at least not after the 1600s, so John must have been from another parish. But I don’t know which one!
19-03-2009, 5:43 PM
Hmm. Since I posted my rather overconfident opinion that JR was from Campton I have received a copy of his will (1828) from a newly discovered 3rd cousin. In the will he clearly states that he has a sister named Ann. The Campton JR seemingly had no such sister.
Back to the files!
19-03-2009, 5:52 PM
Just came across in http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=004-q_4&cid=-1&Gsm=2008-06-18#-1
a Removal Order:
[no title] QSP/56/1/8 17 February 1774
John Rogers and wife Elizabeth; Campton to Northill [see QSP/56/2/15]
20-03-2009, 8:46 AM
The BLARS online catalogue at http://blars.adlibsoft.com/wwwopac.exe?DATABASE=catalo%3Earchives&LANGUAGE=0&DEBUG=0&BRIEFADAPL=../web/adapls/wwwreq&DETAILADAPL=../web/adapls/wwwreq&%250=400049648&LIMIT=50 in an 1821 lease and release refers to John Rogers as a cooper
The same catalogue http://blars.adlibsoft.com/wwwopac.exe?DATABASE=catalo%3Eitems&LANGUAGE=0&DEBUG=0&BRIEFADAPL=../web/adapls/wwwreq&DETAILADAPL=../web/adapls/wwwreq&%250=400003805&LIMIT=50 shows that the Removal Order was successfully appealed so they went back to Campton. Even more confusing! But I think Campton, Meppershall, Northill etc are red herrings so far as the Potton John Rogers is concerned. The Removal Order does show that John Rogers must have had a link with Northill - possibly he was the John Rogers who was baptised there in 1694
Were any children named in his will?
I think the first priority is to check the Croydon marriage entry to see if there are any clues eg parishes of residence and witnesses, who might be siblings.
23-03-2009, 9:13 AM
How many surviving children were named in the will? Working forwards from baptisms and burials I can only find one, John.
Ann Rogers married Ephraim Page in 1798 at Biggleswade; both were of this parish. Ephraim Page was buried at Biggleswade on 1 Oct 1820 age 46. There’s a burial of an Ann Page in Biggleswade on 13 Dec 1837 age 68, which if it’s the right Ann and if the age is accurate gives a birth of 1769. So Hannah Rogers baptised 1772 in Campton falls fairly close. There’s no marriage in Campton of an Ann/Hannah Rogers that would fit, BUT there is a burial of a Hannah Rogers on 27 Aug 1789, which would need checking to see if there is any additional detail. Ephraim Page doesn’t appear to have been baptised in Beds. Might his birthplace, it it can be found, give a clue – ie did he meet Ann in Biggleswade, or were they both from another parish?
Ignore the “born about 1777” relating to Ann when she married Ephraim Page. It’s a member submission, therefore unreliable, and LDS members when they don’t know, or can’t be bothered to do any research, deduct 21 from the marriage year in the case of women, and 25 for men, to arrive at a birth year, and the birthplace is automatically where the marriage took place - on the basis that it’s a well known fact that all men marry at age 25, and women at 21! Ignore any dates on the IGI in member submissions, that start “about”. It’s an uneducated guess!
I was wondering if William and Jemima, as mentioned by Juliet, might provide a clue, as I can’t find a burial of William, nor what happened to Jemima after William died. Where did they live? As there doesn’t appear to be a bequest to any children of William, and as there are no baptisms of children to William and Jemima on the IGI, perhaps they were childless. Would John have left a bequest to Jemima if she had remarried? Possibly not.
Sorry, but I still don’t buy the Campton theory. Without supporting evidence from parish registers it’s pure speculation. It’s always difficult to prove that a person married in one parish was the one baptised in another parish, particularly when the parishes are some distance apart. The only connection to Campton is that the name and birth are about right, and John in Campton had a sister Ann/Hannah. How many Johns in the country didn’t have a sister named Ann!!!
It needs reference to:
Croydon parish register to get the marriage details
Meppershall parish register to get the 1777 marriage details
Biggleswade parish register to get the names of the witnesses at the marriage of Ann Rogers
Campton parish register for details of the burials of John in 1779 and Hannah in 1789
28-03-2009, 6:35 PM
Hello Andrew & David
There is no additional info on the 1798 Biggleswade marriage of Ann Rogers to Ephraim Page. If you want the witnesses you'll have to go to see the microfilm at Bedford Archives.
The 1777 Meppershall marriage of John Rogers to Elizabeth Devonshire gives us no further info.
However on to Campton; the Hannah Rogers baptised 8 Nov 1772 was daughter of William & Mary Rogers, and it was her (daughter of W & M, labourer) that was buried there on 27 Aug 1789.
*** David interestingly the next burial on 21 Sept 1789 was Joseph son of James & Eliz Dumville.
These William & Mary Rogers had been baptising children at Campton way
back to 1753
The 1779 burial just says John Rogers
29-03-2009, 2:27 AM
Many thanks for the information. I will not be in England for some months so detailed research will have to wait, unless some kind person out there has a chance to look at the microfilm for me.... (Is it possible to buy copies?)
Seems I will have to go back to the hunt to try to find where old John (In his will he is called John "The Elder" Rogers) came from.
If you would like a copy of the will please let me have an email address to which I can send it.
In case anyone has a theory: I am also trying to find the source of the "Race" in my name. It started with John's grandson James Race Rogers, son of James. There are quite a few Race's in Potton at the time, but I have not yet found one who is connected.
Andrew Francis Race Rogers
30-03-2009, 4:44 AM
Having had the Campton theory shot down I am now considering the possibility that John "The Elder" came from Cambridgeshire. It is probable that he married Elizabeth White (09 Nov 1778, Croydon Cum Clapton, Cambridge). Our family also has a connection with Cambridge, some members buried in Gamlingay, John's g. grandson William Race married a girl whose family came from Bassingbourne and others who lived in Cambridge itself.
I am going to try to see some microfiche at the LDS in Bangkok...
BTW: I am supposed to meet my 3rd cousin once removed, Andrew Rogers, tomorrow. Found partly through this site...
Andrew Francis Race Rogers
14-07-2009, 5:19 PM
Having done some more work on the Rogers, and having been provided with a copy of the will referred to by Andrew, I now think that his John Rogers 1755-1828 was a half brother of Gill's John Andrew Rogers 1787-after1851. Their father, also John Rogers, had 19 children by two wives, in Bourn Cambs, and Biggleswade and Southill, Beds. The family looks something like this:
I. John ROGERS was born circa 1733. He married Rachel NEWNHAM or NEWMAN on 22 Jul 1754 at Bourn, Cambs. He married Elizabeth DARLOW, daughter of Thomas DARLOW and Susannah (--?--), on 20 Sep 1773 at Bourn, Cambs. He appeared on the census of 1801 at Broom, Southill, Beds. He died in Feb 1806 at Bourn, Cambs. He was buried on 24 Feb 1806 at Bourn, Cambs, age 73.
A. John ROGERS was christened on 17 Aug 1755 at Bourn, Cambs. He
married Elizabeth WHITE on 9 Nov 1778 at Croydon cum Clapton, Cambs.
He married Jane CRAWLEY on 30 Oct 1794 at Potton, Beds. In his will
dated 31 May 1828 bequests were made to his grandchildren John,
Elizabeth, and Jane Rogers, children of his late son James; his son John
Rogers of Cambridge; to Jemima Rogers of Baldock, the widow of his late
son William; to Mary Rogers, now living with him; his sister Ann Page,
widow; his mother in law (=step mother) Elizabeth Rogers, widow.
Executors son John and grandson John. He died in Dec 1829 at Potton,
Beds. He was buried on 13 Dec 1829 at Potton, Beds, age 75.
1. William ROGERS was christened on 28 Aug 1779 at Potton, Beds. He
married Jemima BARBER on 2 Mar 1802 at Potton, Beds. He died before
2. Catharine ROGERS was christened on 21 Mar 1781 at Potton, Beds.
She died in Apr 1805 at Potton, Beds. She, age 24, was buried on 25
Apr 1805 at Potton, Beds.
3. John ROGERS was christened on 11 Jun 1783 at Potton, Beds. He
married Ann THOMPSON on 31 Jan 1803 at St Edward, Cambridge.
4. Elizabeth ROGERS was christened on 5 Apr 1785 at Potton, Beds.
She died in Dec 1786 at Potton, Beds. She, infant, was buried on 28
Dec 1786 at Potton, Beds.
5. James ROGERS was christened on 11 Feb 1788 at Potton, Beds. He
married Mary MEEKS on 15 Jun 1812 at Potton, Beds. He died in Jul
1819 at Potton, Beds. He, age 31, was buried on 25 Jul 1819 at
6. Elizabeth ROGERS was christened on 14 Jun 1790 at Potton, Beds.
She died in Jul 1802 at Potton, Beds. She, age 13, was buried on 14
Jul 1802 at Potton, Beds.
7. Thomas ROGERS was christened on 2 Jun 1792 at Potton, Beds. He
died in Apr 1802 at Potton, Beds. He, age 10, was buried on 16 Apr
1802 at Potton, Beds.
B. Robert ROGERS was christened on 29 Aug 1756 at Bourn, Cambs. He
died in Jun 1766 at Kingston, Cambs. He was buried on 18 Jun 1766 at
C. Newman ROGERS was christened on 14 May 1758 at Bourn, Cambs. He
died in Mar 1767 at Kingston, Cambs. He was buried on 21 Mar 1767 at
D. Sarah ROGERS was christened on 8 Jun 1760 at Bourn, Cambs. She
died in Nov 1761 at Bourn, Cambs. She was buried on 15 Nov 1761 at
E. Alice ROGERS was christened on 16 May 1762 at Bourn, Cambs. She
was buried on 30 Nov 1775 at Bourn, Cambs.
F. Gregory ROGERS was christened on 8 Jan 1764 at Bourn, Cambs.
G. Rachel ROGERS was born on 22 Dec 1765 at Bourn, Cambs.
H. Sarah ROGERS was christened on 20 Mar 1768 at Kingston, Cambs.
I. Ann ROGERS was christened on 30 Apr 1770 at Kingston, Cambs.
J. Elizabeth ROGERS. She was christened on 28 Dec 1777 at Bourn,
Cambs. She married Joseph CHEW on 31 Jul 1797 at Southill, Beds. She
married William SAYWELL on 30 Dec 1818 at Bourn, Cambs.
1. Joseph CHEW was christened on 21 Jul 1799 at Southill, Beds. He
married Susannah TRIPLOW on 12 Oct 1818 at Bassingbourn, Cambs.
2. Elizabeth CHEW was christened on 21 Jul 1799 at Southill, Beds.
3. John CHEW was born on 7 Jul 1805 at Bourn, Cambs. Illegitimate
4. Catherine CHEW was christened on 14 May 1807 at Bourn, Cambs.
5. William CHEW was also known as SAYWELL. He was christened on 12
Jul 1812 at Bourn, Cambs. Illegitimate
6. Jane CHEW was christened on 12 Jun 1814 at Bourn, Cambs.
7. Rachel SAYWELL was born in 1821 at Bourn, Cambs. She married
David CHAPMAN on 25 Dec 1847 at Bourn, Cambs.
K. Thomas ROGERS was christened on 25 Jul 1779 at Biggleswade, Beds.
Recognizances: Thos. Rogers, Broom, Southill, yeo.; bastardy. with
Martha Sale (presumably Martha Sarl). 1798. He married Martha SARL,
daughter of Margaret SARL, on 15 May 1798. He died in Mar 1805 at
Southill, Beds. He was buried on 20 Mar 1805 at Southill, Beds.
1. Susanna ROGERS was born in 1798. She died in Aug 1798. She was
buried on 7 Aug 1798 at Southill, Beds.
2. John ROGERS married Elizabeth (--?--). He was christened on 3
Nov 1799 at Southill, Beds. He appeared on the census of 30 Mar 1851
at 4 Margarets Row, St Pancras, London.
3. Samuel ROGERS was christened on 30 Nov 1800 at Southill, Beds.
4. Jane ROGERS was christened on 4 Sep 1803 at Southill, Beds.
5. Mary ROGERS was christened on 2 Jan 1805 at Southill, Cambs.
L. Susan ROGERS was christened on 31 Aug 1781 at Biggleswade, Beds.
M. Robert ROGERS was born on 17 Mar 1785 at Biggleswade, Beds. He
married Etty ALLEN on 20 Jan 1812 at Dry Drayton, Cambs. Removal order
from St. Clement, Cambridge: Robert Rogers to Longstanton, All Saints 3
March 1824. He died in Feb 1827 at Long Stanton, Cambs. He was buried
on 14 Feb 1827 at Bourn, Cambs.
1. George ROGERS was christened on 5 Jul 1812 at Dry Drayton, Cambs.
2. Rebecca ROGERS was christened on 13 May 1815 at Gamlingay, Cambs.
N. John Andrew ROGERS was christened on 19 Feb 1787 at Southill, Beds.
He married Mary CHAPMAN on 1 Mar 1808 at Dry Drayton, Cambs.
1. Francis Chapman ROGERS was christened on 8 May 1808 at Dry
2. Samuel ROGERS was christened on 21 Apr 1811 at Dry Drayton,
3. Maria ROGERS was christened on 3 Jul 1814 at Dry Drayton, Cambs.
4. Caroline ROGERS was christened on 14 Apr 1816 at Dry Drayton,
5. William ROGERS was christened on 10 Jan 1819 at Dry Drayton,
6. Jane ROGERS was christened on 13 Jan 1822 at Dry Drayton, Cambs.
7. Rachel ROGERS was christened on 6 Feb 1825 at Dry Drayton, Cambs.
8. Elizabeth ROGERS was christened on 6 Feb 1825 at Dry Drayton,
Cambs. She was buried in 1830 at Dry Drayton, Cambs.
9. Mary ROGERS was born on 1 Jul 1827 at Dry Drayton, Cambs. She
died in 1830 at Dry Drayton, Cambs.
O. Samuel ROGERS was christened on 8 Feb 1789 at Southill, Beds. He
died in Sep 1792 at Southill, Beds. He was buried on 24 Sep 1792 at
P. William ROGERS was christened on 16 Oct 1791 at Southill, Beds. He
served in the 7th Foot regiment, the Royal Fusiliers. He served in the
Peninsular War, New Orleans, France and Ireland. He married Mary Ann
GORDON circa 1837, possibly in the Channel Islands.
1. Julia Ann ROGERS was born in 1838 at Cambridge.
2. Arthur Samuel ROGERS was born in 1846 at Cambridge.
3. William ROGERS was born in 1850 at Cambridge.
4. Mary Ann ROGERS was born in 1852 at Cambridge.
Q. Catherine ROGERS. She was born in 1793 at Broom, Southill, Beds.
She married David BOWD alias DARLOW, son of John DARLOW and Mercy
BOWD née PATMAN, on 6 Jul 1813 at Bourn, Cambs. She was buried on 9
Jan 1861 at Bourn, Cambs.
1. Mercy DARLOW was christened on 20 Jul 1828 at Bourn, Cambs.
R. Lydia ROGERS was christened on 28 Jan 1795 at Southill, Beds. She
died in Jan 1795 at Southill, Beds. She was buried on 1 Feb 1795 at
S. Jane ROGERS was christened on 26 Nov 1796 at Southill, Beds.
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.1.3 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.