Unmarried at child's birth

[Staffs Boaties]

I wonder if anyone can help me. If a child was born in 1878 to an unmarried mother who worked on the canals would she have registered the birth only I can't find one so I have no way of knowing if when she married in 1888 she was marrying her daughter's father (she had had another 2 daughters by this point)

[suedent]

Even if the birth ws registered, and there is a possibility that it wasn't, the father is highly unlikely to be named if the child was illegitimate.

The exceptions to this usually occur when the couple are passing themselves off as being married. In this case if a gentleman, other than the one she married,was the father of the children then you really have a hard job on your hands.

[Staffs Boaties]

I have had another look and it seems there are 2 census returns for 1881 which have confused me. |oopsredfa One is Mary A Cokeley and daughter Rosanna aged 2 and then John Watkin wife Mary and daughter Rose A aged 2. John Watkin is my great great grandfather and his wife's maiden name is Coakley hence the confusion. Although this doesn't explain why I can't find a birth certificate for Rose who's full name is Rose Hannah yet I can find one ten years later for her siblings |banghead|

[brianb]

Hi

I have had similar issues elsewhere, if unmarried then its possible she avoided the vicar's temper, hence no baptism. This was one explanation I had for one such incident in my tree.

Is it possible that if the child is illegitimate then costs to suport against the father may have been made, by the overseer ? If so records may be available somewhere. Or perhaps the birth was kept quite so as to avoid such a thing happening?

Brian

[ChristineR]

I have had another look and it seems there are 2 census returns for 1881 which have confused me. |oopsredfa One is Mary A Cokeley and daughter Rosanna aged 2 and then John Watkin wife Mary and daughter Rose A aged 2. John Watkin is my great great grandfather and his wife's maiden name is Coakley hence the confusion. Although this doesn't explain why I can't find a birth certificate for Rose who's full name is Rose Hannah yet I can find one ten years later for her siblings |banghead|


On looking at these 1881 entries on the LDS website it is possible that these two have been enumerated twice - this does happen even though the census is supposed to only show who slept at the residence on census night.

Mary is shown as a visitor, but Rosanna is shown as a boarder - so she might actually live there when not on the canal boat. Roseanna's age and birth place is the same on both entires, Mary's age and birthplace are different to the Mary given as wife of John on the same census.

I am not sure how far apart the places are, if it was feasible for them to be in both places on consecutive evenings which confused things for census entries at both residences. Mary may have lived with John as his wife on the canal boat, perhaps working on the barge with him, and at convenient times they had their daughter with them. John could have misunderstood the householder instructions and included Mary and Rose even though they were not on board.

ChristineR

[Staffs Boaties]

Berkswich to Wolverhampton is about 15 miles by road. The really confusing thing is Elizabeth Fradley who is on the Wolverhampton census registered the birth for Ellen Watkin in 1889 so it seems odd to have 2 Mary's with the same surname who both knew Elizabeth Fradley |help|

[Geoffers]

Berkswich to Wolverhampton is about 15 miles by road.

Not so far. One of my 2xgt grandmothers was in Wymondham, Norfolk (with parents and her first child) and Lowestoft, Suffolk (with husband and first child) for one census - that's about 35-ish miles

The census schedule was handed out in advance and then collected later. Just imagine that perhaps someone filled in their household census as soon as the schedule arrives and put it to one side for collection. Nearer the date of the census, one of them goes to visit family and family have not yet filled in census, add him/her to it - there you have it, one person in two places at the same time.

[ChristineR]

Berkswich to Wolverhampton is about 15 miles by road. The really confusing thing is Elizabeth Fradley who is on the Wolverhampton census registered the birth for Ellen Watkin in 1889 so it seems odd to have 2 Mary's with the same surname who both knew Elizabeth Fradley |help|

The plot is getting thicker - I think that you are dealing with the same Mary and Rose enumerated in two places on census night - it is not uncommon for errors to be made when passing on anothers details for age and birthplace.

ChristineR

edit: perfect scenario put forward by Geoffers.

" The census schedule was handed out in advance and then collected later. Just imagine that perhaps someone filled in their household census as soon as the schedule arrives and put it to one side for collection. Nearer the date of the census, one of them goes to visit family and family have not yet filled in census, add him/her to it - there you have it, one person in two places at the same time."

[Staffs Boaties]

Mmm I wonder if Mary and John married then? I will have a look for a birth certificate for Rose Coakley. Might explain why I could'nt find one up til now

[Jo from Australia]

My great grandmother registered the birth of my grandmother; both named Lena Branton. No father listed - I thought "great! that is the end of that!"

BUT!!!

Lena senior was in fact Lena Gray- unmarried mother living at the address of 49 Custance Street Shoreditch on the birth cert (June 1905). I found a marriage cert for 8 weeks after the birth (Aug 1905) reg for Lena Gray from 49 Custance street marrying a George Branton. so she had the baby before the marriage but listed both her and the baby's name as the fathers name but not the father himself. Luckily they listed the addresses on the certificates otherwise it would not have been so conclusive.

cheers Jo

[ChristineR]

Thanks for letting us know of the great outcome.

|jumphappy


Christine

[benny1982]

Hi

Yes, I have had one person manage to cut himself in half on census night and be in two places at once. My 4xgreat grandfather appears in 2 places in the 1861 census in Durham.

People knew other people who lived miles away from each other in Victorain times as much as today. Just then, for communication they had a horse and cart or a contact address book. Someone in Gloucetser could have known a girl who lived in Norwich, 150 miles away, and kept in touch by letters.

I think if an illegitimate baby was born in a parish that is familiar to the mother and where everyone would have known what was going on, then that is a hint that she knew who the father was or was planning to marry him. If she did get wed shortly after, then it was probably to the father.

My gggran was born illegitmate but her mum wed the father afterwards and then was baptised after her parents wedding.

Ben

[Julie Tyrell]

Hi

My nan thought she was legimate as her birth certificate in 1930 implied the mother was married to her father. But it wasn't until a LOT of digging that I found that she was illegimate.

Her father had left his wife in London for a widow (much younger!!) and set up home in Kent, they lived as man and wife, and registered their children as if they were married, but no wedding ever took place!!

Julie