View Full Version : Place transcription howler
And the nominees are . . . .
While searching the Ancestry index of the 1860 US census, I just found an entire family born in Leicestershire, Germany.
(I viewed the image, and to my relief it does not say that!)
What interesting places have others found?
|cheers|
Peggy
Pam Downes
19-12-2004, 2:57 AM
My first contender is for the 1901 and says
WC, Harrison Street.
Fortunately the image says Harrison Street WC and as it refers to a London census, it's obviously WC as in West Central.
On the 1891, there's Cluppeny, which is actually Chipping Norton.
However I'm going to claim the winner's prize already for Melter Munbrg Lahater. I'd love to know what other people think it might be. :)
Pam Downes
Pam,
How about Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire? :)
Peggy
Geoffers
19-12-2004, 9:15 AM
The places that amuse/annoy me are those where people were born in the same place that they lived - yet still the two places are transcribed wrongly.
e.g. Someone living in
Scottow but born in Scotlow
Buxton but born in Buxtor
Horstead but born in Morstead
Skeyton but born in Steyton
Heigham but born in Harghm
Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire
Sue Mackay
19-12-2004, 9:55 AM
And of course those of us with Sutherland ancestry were most bemused when the LDS index to the 1881 came out and we couldn't find a soul - then discovered that everyone born in Sutherland had been entered under Sunderland, Co.Durham!! At least they gave us a revised Scottish disk, but I still have to remember to look for Sutherland strays in the rest of the country under Durham.
Pam Downes
19-12-2004, 9:56 AM
Pam,
How about Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire? :)
Peggy
You've seen that one before Peggy :D
Though I think that you will admit that it has to be a strong contender for worst transcription.
Pam Downes
Marion
19-12-2004, 10:21 AM
Then there are the vast numbers of my ancestors who were born in Somalia, without ever crossing a sea they somehow later ended up in Somerset!
Marion in Wiltshire
Hi Pam,
[You've seen that one before Peggy]
Kept saying it fast, and that's what popped into my head. You mean that's really what it was?!!!
|woohoo|
Peggy
busyglen
19-12-2004, 6:40 PM
I promise that I have only just read the replies! I started at top of the thread, and thought `that sounds like Melton Mowbray' but couldn't remember what the County was. I was about to check `Genie' that I used for transcriptions, but decided to read the follow up messages. Good job I did as I would have had egg on my face.
Glad Peggy had the same thoughts.
Glenys.
Anyone want to take a guess at where Wisconsin is?
Hint: not in the USA.
Peggy
Terry Waters-Marsh
22-12-2004, 12:48 AM
While in the same vein.....
I received today an email from Ancestry advising that they had corrected their 1901 transcription that had my great-grandfather born in Swainswick, Bath, Somalia instead of Somerset. Not bad given I advised them of the error on 23 July 2004! At least they did correct that howler.
Geoffers
22-12-2004, 8:37 AM
Anyone want to take a guess at where Wisconsin is?
Hint: not in the USA.
Peggy
Heaven knows.............Winson, Winston, Winstone, Wiseton, Wistaston??????
Any clues as to a county from either the place or other family?
I give up, where is it????????
Geoffers
busyglen
22-12-2004, 10:37 AM
How about Wincanton?
Glenys
Very clear on the census, but the index almost steered me away.
West Indies.
Peggy
Hi Terry,
Didn't know Ancestry was accepting corrections for anything other than names yet. I have managed to get them to change my grandaunt's name from Frank to Laura; or at least to list Laura as an alternate version. <g>
I'm not sure we can say that Somalia was "their" error. Didn't they get the 1901 index from the PRO, and isn't it the result of the infamous outsourced transcription project?
Peggy
How bizarre. Good to know that one should check both.
Peggy
robdurk
26-12-2004, 9:50 AM
There really are some wonders on the 1901... you'd have thought that even outsourcing the data entry they might have provided a gazetteer.
Still, to business.
Chrwck S Hill, anyone? Look away now if you don't want the answer!
And I'm still bemused by "Myton-on-Swale, Somerset"... or am I just being more than usually pedestrian in feeling that Yorkshire villages and rivers ought customarily to be located in that county?
Oh, the answer? It's Creech St Michael, of course. And actually really rather plainly written too...
Rob
Diane Grant-Salmon
04-01-2005, 8:09 PM
To add to this list of place name howlers, here's another one for you to guess where it is.
Bukovina ....... I'll be back tomorrow to see if anybody got it :D
Cornish Maid
05-01-2005, 12:34 AM
Just found my saddest ancestor of all ...born Dog Kennel, Haslingden!
Pam Downes
05-01-2005, 3:36 AM
To add to this list of place name howlers, here's another one for you to guess where it is.
Bukovina ....... I'll be back tomorrow to see if anybody got it :D
Coventry?
I've just been transcribing surnames and I know how much some B's look like M's, but I've dismissed Mudford Sock (near Yeovil, Somerset) from the equation. :D
Pam Downes
Diane Grant-Salmon
05-01-2005, 9:50 AM
Coventry?
Pam Downes
Good try Pam! The answer is Buckingham and has possibly just knocked down one of my |banghead|
|woohoo|
Pam Downes
05-01-2005, 8:47 PM
Good try Pam! The answer is Buckingham.......
Don't suppose you'll believe me if I say that my first thought was Buckingham, will you? :D - simply because of the 'buk' at the beginnning of the word. I then did the usual 'that's too obvious' and concentrated on the end of the word instead. Hence Coventry from 'kovina'.
Pam
Just found another beaut on the 1871. The person resided in Norwich, Norfolk. The birthplace looks like "Norfalk, Norwich." A reverse question this time: what birthplace might a logical <g> transcriber come up with?
Peggy
Authordocs
17-01-2005, 9:04 AM
I thought it a bit odd last week when I came across a whole batch of pages in the 1871 Taunton census where everyone appeared to have been born in Somalia. Then realised that the "Som." abbreviation for Somerset had been transcribed wrongly :)
clive_t
17-01-2005, 6:26 PM
Then there are the vast numbers of my ancestors who were born in Somalia, without ever crossing a sea they somehow later ended up in Somerset!
Marion in Wiltshire
Yes, I had one of those too - my great grandfather, Edward Badman, born in "Weston S Man, Somalia" (=Weston super Mare, Somerset!)
The first attempt I had in searching for my maternal grandmother, Leonora, was transcribed in the 1901 census as 'Leonard'! But still showing as female!!
Clive
[1871. The person resided in Norwich, Norfolk. The birthplace looks like "Norfalk, Norwich." A reverse question this time: what birthplace might a logical <g> transcriber come up with?]
No takers? :) Ok. The index shows the birthplace as Norwich, Norway. It would make more sense if the original had shown "Nor." But it was spelled out.
One conclusion from this and Somerset/Somalia: it is probably safer to put the birthplace city or village and not the county when searching.
Peggy
Genevieve
20-01-2005, 7:55 PM
What about Stornaway, Middlesex?
I'd never have guessed the true location unless I'd read the legible image!
Middle Earth? Midway Island? Middleham? Midlands? Middle Essex?
Peggy
Genevieve
20-01-2005, 8:49 PM
Ooh close - it was actually Hornsey!
Aragina
20-01-2005, 9:09 PM
Try Norfold, Durham had to wait 10 years before I found on the 1891 that it was Downham Norfolk.
Accents, enumerators and transcribers they are all out to get you!! LOL
Oh . . . well . . . then it isn't safe to search by birth place, or county, or country. Or by name. Makes it just a tad difficult. LOL.
I wonder how much people were paid to produce the indices on Ancestry. And if there was any review of the work. The error rate must be astronomical.
Peggy
Terry Waters-Marsh
20-01-2005, 10:57 PM
This thread contains many examples of howlers from the commercial indexes that have been completed by persons with English as a second language. The solution is quite simple - if you want something done right, do it yourself!
How, you ask? By becoming a volunteer for the FreeCEN project, that's how! We are in urgent need for more transcribers, checkers and validators. Volunteers all (there is not one cent or pence of funding from any source), we have thus far put approximately 3 1/2 million names on the web site but we have more than 150 million more names to complete (and when I say names, I include all the census details for each name). Can anyone do it - very few people don't have the ability to do it (age, eyesight, invalid etc are the main constraints).
Hi Terry,
Pardon me for saying so, but the solution you mention is not a solution as of today. I've done some volunteer transcribing of US records, and I applaud those who are doing far more difficult work for FreeCen. They all deserve our thanks and a batch of medals. But I'm looking for ways to find information now. I've been trying to dig up my tree for over 30 years, and at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot. :-)
I find "talking about" the index errors not only amusing, but useful for framing searches. Somerset can be Somalia, Norfolk can be Norway. . . . Any clue to a way to trick the search engine into coughing up the correct result is helpful.
Cheers,
Peggy
Terry Waters-Marsh
21-01-2005, 4:28 AM
Pardon me for saying so, but the solution you mention is not a solution as of today. <snip> But I'm looking for ways to find information now. I've been trying to dig up my tree for over 30 years, and at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot. Dear Peggy,
While appreciating the spectre of father time looming over you, I disagree that volunteering to do a transcription is not a solution or that FreeCEN is not a solution. If I had 100 volunteers for 4 weeks, I would have Wiltshire completely done. It is all a function of how many people are willing to donate their time and energies for the good of the wider community. Your comment that doing so is not a solution because you want the information NOW. Yes, there are some commercial indexes out there which are producing online indexes if you are willing to pay and if you know how to devise search strategies to compensate for their horrendous error rates (estimated to be as high as 30% in some places). For you that may be the only solution you want (BTW, how long before they produce the 1841 index, the 1851 index, the 1861 index? Eleven years is the answer from the big A comapny!!!!) but for thousands of others, they would prefer a free and reliable and full transcription - that is who the FreeCEN solution is for. |cheers|
Hi again Terry,
How DO you manage to get a longer message on without the repetitions?
I didn't say that FreeCen isn't a solution. I said it isn't a solution as of today. Barring a miracle it will take very many years to complete.
We don't disagree about donating time and energy. I've found genealogists to be incredibly generous people, and have received much help. I've tried to "pay it back" by helping others when I can, by being listed on sites such as "Books We Own" from which I get frequent lookup requests, by doing the earlier transcribing I mentioned, by being a non-Mormon volunteer at the FHC when I was able; IOW, in whatever ways best fit my own abilities, priorities, and limitations.
[on to part 2]
Yes, I'm willing to pay for online indices, even though I spend more time in the UK records section looking for other people's relative's than looking for my own one English line. :) [The errors I've mentioned were noted while trying to fill requests posted on these forums.]
I really don't think you should be angry that I don't "do my bit" for FreeCen and Mother England. Most of my ancestors were from other countries (Ireland --- anyone indexing an Irish census?, Holland, France, Germany, etc. etc.), and they want my attention too. I don't blame you for being frustrated that there aren't more volunteers, but I don't think that I, for whom English place names & pronunciations are something of a second language anyway <g>, should be high on the list of potential recruits.
Best,
Peggy
Terry Waters-Marsh
21-01-2005, 7:01 AM
Peggy,
You have a wicked sense of humour :D . I like that - it stops people taking themselves too seriously. I can assure you I am not angry or frustrated at, or with, anyone. I was just wanting to bring to peoples' attention that there are alternatives to the pay-per-view/subscription indexes that volunteers like you and I contribute to this marvellous obsession we share. FreeCEN is a sister project to FreeBMD and FreeREG - when FreeBMD started, no-one expected that project to succeed but it has and now is the time for people to get involved in FreeCEN. Once we get well progressed with FreeCEN, I will be encouraging people to volunteer for FreeREG to finish that one off. What a trifecta that will be then - free access to BMD, census indexes and all parish registers! :p
All it takes is for people to volunteer.....
Hi Terry,
Here's to the trifecta! And to a peace treaty between Queensland and Florida.
|cheers|
I didn't use any graphics when I got the garbled repetitions. I even had smilies disabled. And it makes no diff whether I write in the little box or paste from Notepad. I always use the preview function. This time it showed the problem, editing had the usual effect of making it worse, and worse, and worse, so I opted for the 2-parter. Yesterday I got a "clean" preview and a submitted message that was gibberish. Beats me.
Best,
Peggy
The 1871 has been updated, so I was browsing it. Took a look for people born in Somalia, and found only 47. A few on the list were born in "PHL, Bristol, Somalia." Wondering what that could be, I looked at a census image. It says "Saint Philips, Bristol." How on earth . . . ? There's no "Som" there to get wrong. "Saint" is clear. The transcriber must have looked up Bristol on a cheat sheet, found it was in Som, and created PHL.
Worth looking at the 47 if your Somerset ancestor is missing. There are more than 10,000 people born in Somalia on the 1891!
Peggy
The 1871 shows hundreds of people born in Norway. Many of them appear to be Norwegian. <G> Those with English-looking names could still have been born in Norway. But some of the place names look a tad suspicious. To list a few:
Coventry, Ditchingham, East Indies, Lakenham (Norwegian AF base? <g>), London, Petersham, Yarmouth.
So there's another possible way to search for the vanished.
Peggy
Aragina
24-01-2005, 2:56 PM
transcribed Earlsfield, Surrey as Saudi Arabian Republic, thank goodness the brother next one down had it correctly as Earlsfield Surrey.
Hi Aragina,
What year was that?
Other popular places are Syrian Arab Republic or Dominican Republic. People born all over England got indexed under those. Wimbledon is in the Syrian Arab Republic. Bath is in the Dominican Republic.
Any country in the Western hemisphere is likely to be part of the USA:
Valparciss Chile, United States of America; Canada, United States of America.
And I especially liked these: Paddington, Monaco; Manchester, Laos; Aus, Brisbane, Laos; Irl, Carlow, Laos.
Those were 1871. There are far fewer people put in other countries than for 1901, so I suspect that the 1871 errors may have resulted from a few dim bulbs doing indexing rather than from "outsourcing."
Peggy
Frank_Spooner
14-02-2005, 10:44 AM
Any one care to hazzard a guess on this one
Bipkop Stahington
Answers on a postcard please... Will post the answer later
Frank
Pam Downes
14-02-2005, 1:08 PM
Any one care to hazzard a guess on this one
Bipkop Stahington
Bishop's Itchington? or possibly Bishopsteignton
Pam Downes
Frank_Spooner
15-02-2005, 1:46 PM
Bishops Ichington is correct - It's very clear when you look at the original image.
Frank
Genevieve
15-02-2005, 1:51 PM
How about Bishops Stortford?
Pam Downes
18-08-2005, 12:08 AM
It's quiz time again, folks!
Anyone want to make a guess what the correct transcription of Thomante is?
Clue: place name, three syllables.
Pam Downes
Frank W
18-08-2005, 12:30 PM
Tomintoul ?
Pam Downes
18-08-2005, 1:59 PM
Tomintoul ?
Nah, like all the best mistranscriptions, nothing so obvious.
If you'd like another clue:
South of York.
North of Watford.
Pam Downes
busyglen
18-08-2005, 2:00 PM
Tormarton, Devon?
Glenys
Rod Neep
18-08-2005, 2:19 PM
Ah!
Northampton :D
Pam Downes
18-08-2005, 2:47 PM
Ah!
Northampton :D
Best effort so far, but you're still more than 50 miles away and you need to go east of Northampton's meridian.
Pam Downes
Pam Downes
18-08-2005, 3:41 PM
Horncastle ?
Mark
I knew I'd made it far too easy in the end :).
It's RG12/2612 f46 p42 (Great Grimsby) last entry on the page - which is what I suspect Mark found.
Had Hatcliffe not been written 5 lines above - with an equally inscrutable 'H' - I wouldn't even have been able to hazard a guess at the place.
Pam Downes
Rod Neep
18-08-2005, 4:02 PM
How on earth could anyone make "Thomante" out of Horncastle?
Oh.... never mind.
I didn't expect an answer to that one.
Pam Downes
18-08-2005, 5:28 PM
How on earth could anyone make "Thomante" out of Horncastle?
Oh.... never mind.
I didn't expect an answer to that one.
If you saw the way that 'Sunningdale' was written on marriage certificate I requested you'd know how they managed to make Thomante out of Horncastle. :D It was only because I (eventually) remembered where this person lived that I was able to say it was Sunningdale because the word actually looks about 6 letters long. Pity I don't have the techno knowledge to post it to the list because that truly is one no-one would get.
Pam Downes
GeoffD
19-08-2005, 4:20 AM
How on earth could anyone make "Thomante" out of Horncastle?
I think I can see how that happened - in the 1841 Devon I have for transcription, there is one enumerator whose "H" looks very much like "Th" at first glance. Coincidentally, his "s" and "r" are almost identical, as are "n" and "u".
Rod Neep
19-08-2005, 5:16 AM
But Geoff.... you would have the common sense to wonder if it was right, because it didn't look right, and you would check in an atlas or gazetteer.
;)
Rod
Burrow Digger
19-08-2005, 10:39 AM
These transcribers are either so silly that they dont bother or cant be bothered to look up an atlas - or more likely "time is money" and the more lines they transcribe, the more they get paid. I would not blame the transcribers so much as the CHECKERS who obviously DON"T CHECK!!!
I am hoping that if the GRO (or whoever its planning to do this) goes ahead with its plan to outsource the records to India, that the checkers be living back in the UK with an atlas/gazetter handy.
And its also sucks that nothing can be changed afterwards because
"the transcriber is always right - we paid him to be right" :(
BD
GeoffD
19-08-2005, 11:08 AM
But Geoff.... you would have the common sense to wonder if it was right, because it didn't look right, and you would check in an atlas or gazetteer.
Or just know that the first possibility was just plain wrong. The ED I'm in now, the enumberator (:o enumerator) has a beautiful hand, used pen, didn't blot, asked people if they were "Betsy" or "Betsey" (not that they'd know, in some cases), and worte in all sorts of useful stuff that the supervisor crossed out, but not so much that you can't read it. Heaven on a stick, this current book.
And speaking of the sub-continent, as someone was, I had a caller that managed to get Dree-ew out of my surname.
Pam Downes
20-08-2011, 8:48 PM
I have found the ultimate challenge. :biggrin:
Haberatird Bortishalbgest is allegedly a place in Yorkshire. (No prizes for guessing it's one of Ancestry's transcriptions.)
I think I could safely offer a million pounds to anyone who can work out the birthplace without looking at the census image.
Pam
Sue Mackay
20-08-2011, 10:45 PM
:rofl: (yep, I peeked at the original too!)
Kerrywood
20-08-2011, 11:04 PM
allegedly a place in Yorkshire.
Does the original say Yorkshire, or have Ancestry got that wrong too?
Kerrywood
20-08-2011, 11:20 PM
Nope. They got that wrong too.
Then it's a complete no-hoper. Pam will eat tomorrow. :wink5:
Pam Downes
20-08-2011, 11:38 PM
I'll tell everyone the answer tomorrow, so people in other parts of the world have time to guess.
Pam
Oh well, I managed to guess what Bortishalbgest was but the rest defeated me!
:frown2:
Lynda
Thomasin
21-08-2011, 10:58 AM
Having cheated on Pam's challenge (and had a good laugh), I investigated the same name (but different person) further, and found to my surprise that in 1891 Thirsk was in Russia.
Another foreign import?
Pam Downes
21-08-2011, 11:31 AM
Having cheated on Pam's challenge (and had a good laugh), I investigated the same name (but different person) further, and found to my surprise that in 1891 Thirsk was in Russia.
Another foreign import?
If you stick -istan on to the end of Thirsk it sounds very Russian. Obviously the enumerator used the shortened form of the name. :biggrin:
I think we can safely say that geography (well, British geography anyway) is not Ancestry's strong point. :willy_nilly:
Pam
Peggy
21-08-2011, 11:39 AM
Ok, I'll take a wild guess. Hyderabad British subject.
Kerrywood
21-08-2011, 11:43 AM
On the basis of the HUGE clue inadvertently provided in post #69, I'd guess Naturalised British Subject.
Thomasin
21-08-2011, 2:23 PM
If you stick -istan on to the end of Thirsk it sounds very Russian. Obviously the enumerator used the shortened form of the name. :biggrin:
Don't think so, Pam. I read it as Minsk!
Pam Downes
21-08-2011, 2:30 PM
I've often wondered how Kerrywood manages to find answers to some of the questions which have us normal mortals sitting and scratching our heads. I now know why - her brain cells are double-jointed. :biggrin:
Did anyone else think there was a HUGE clue in post #69? (I didn't. |dunce2|)
Germany Naturalised Brirtish Subject has been transcribed as Yorkshire, Haberatird Bortishalbgest on Ancestry. (FMP are correct.)
RG12/4011 folio 65 page 34
Samuel Levy, living in Linthorpe.
(Census in care of TNA, Crown copyright)
ADDED: I've just re-read the thread again,, and wonder if Kerrywood meant post #71, where Peggy guessed
Hyderabad British subject.
Have to give a |bowdown| to Peggy.
Pam
Pam Downes
21-08-2011, 2:41 PM
Don't think so, Pam. I read it as Minsk!
I didn't see the entry to which you were referring Thomasin. :smile5:
I just meant that if you said Thirsk-istan it sounded very Russian.
Pam
Kerrywood
21-08-2011, 2:58 PM
wonder if Kerrywood meant post #71
No, I did mean post #69 actually. That tells us that someone with the same name was born in Russia, which I thought was a big clue.
Just to explain my warped thought processes, British Subject seemed feasible for Bortishalbgest (and I'll bet LynA was also thinking that in post #68). And the most common word found before British Subject (for Russians) must surely be Naturalised, not to say Haberatird. :biggrin:
|bowdown| to everyone for a team effort! But :hang: to Ancestry.
Thomasin
21-08-2011, 5:22 PM
I didn't see the entry to which you were referring Thomasin. :smile5:
I just meant that if you said Thirsk-istan it sounded very Russian.
Yes, it would, and worthy of Ancestry; (I can't imagine why they haven't used it!) However, this particular Samuel Levy was a 'dealer in left-off clothes', born 1855 and visiting in Mile End Old Town in 1891.
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