Warrant For Child Neglect!

[carolmcb]

Hi, can any kind soul advise me if it's possible to check old police warrants from the 1890 -1905 era. I think my great grandmother was arrested for child neglect around this time then she dumped the kid son the orphanage steps and walked away. The 1901 census shows several of the children in the orphanage records but the eldest son, I believe had joined the army and two of the girls had been transported to Canada.

Sorry, the family were in the Bethnal Green area.

Thank you, Maureen

[Geoffers]

can any kind soul advise me if it's possible to check old police warrants from the 1890 -1905 era.

You are very unlikely to find a warrant unless it survives with any court papers.

Do any admission records survive for the orphanage detailing the admission and any subsequent action taken?

Are there any newspaper reports of a court case?

Where have you found details of her arrest?

[carolmcb]

You are very unlikely to find a warrant unless it survives with any court papers.

Do any admission records survive for the orphanage detailing the admission and any subsequent action taken? Are there any newspaper reprots of a court case? Where have you found details of her arrest?

Hi Geoffers, I do apologise for not getting back to you before now but this is my first visit for months because I had no idea there was an answer to my question.

Regarding admission records for the orphanage - I have no idea about papers or documents, I'm afraid. All I know is that the 1901 census shows my grandfather and two of his sisters in an orphanage/workhouse Union school in the Bethnal Green area. Unfortunately the records do not show the name of the place.

Regarding the warrant - I have since found out a bit more about my great grandmother. She was Emma Roberts (nee Harvey) b. 1864 Bethnal Green. In 1893 she married Charles Roberts who my grandfather believed to be his father.

However, this was not so because Charles Roberts was the father of Emma's 3 older children but then he either died or scarpered around the time that she was pregnant or the birth in early 1888 of their third child.

Fairly soon after he disappeared Emma took up with another man who she lived with on and off but never married! He was William STAINES b. abt. 1862 London. He was the father of her THREE younger children - Alice, William (my grandfather) and Jenny.

He too absconded and left Emma to cope with 6 children. She soon fell on hard times and signed two of her daughters over to Barnardos - in 1898 - who sent them to Canada but she kept the other 4 children with her!

However, it appears she couldn't cope and, sometime between late 1898 and 1900, she is said to have taken the children somewhere 'possibly out into the countryside near Bethnal Green' and dumped the four children.

They were found and the authorities placed them into the orphanage/union school and I believe that the police issued a warrant for her arrest for child abandonment and that a £5 reward was put on her head.

She, of course, had scarpered and was possibly singing and dancing on the theatre under an assumed name. It appears she had a lovely singing voice and loved the drink and the attentions of men. I've been told that she was on the stage at the Britannia Theatre but they have no archives or records.

I have, in the last few months, acquired a photo of my great grandmother and also the information above.

[Peter Goodey]

All I know is that the 1901 census shows my grandfather and two of his sisters in an orphanage/workhouse Union school in the Bethnal Green area. Unfortunately the records do not show the name of the place.

If you give us the census reference (preferably) or at least the details of who to look for, I think someone here will be able to tell you the name of the institution. Once that is known, we can advise on surviving records.

[Jan1954]

This site: http://www.workhouses.org.uk/ has a lot of information about the Bethnal Green Workhouse, as well as the schools that were assocated with it.

Records are held at The London Metropolitan Archives. Once you are on the Bethnal Green page of the above site, scroll right down to the bottom and it lists the documents held by them.

[Sue Mackay]

Hi Geoffers, I do apologise for not getting back to you before now but this is my first visit for months because I had no idea there was an answer to my question.



If you click on User CP (top left), then Edit Options, then look under Messaging and Notification, you can opt to have an e-mail sent to you if anyone replies to your thread. You can opt for instant, daily or weekly notification of all replies.

[Geoffers]

Hi Geoffers, I do apologise for not getting back to you before now but this is my first visit for months because I had no idea there was an answer to my question.

If you don't look, you won't find out and you may miss out on useful information - let alone the thousands of messages that have been posted which may have given you an insight into how to solve your problem


Regarding admission records for the orphanage - I have no idea about papers or documents, I'm afraid. All I know is that the 1901 census shows my grandfather and two of his sisters in an orphanage/workhouse Union school in the Bethnal Green area. Unfortunately the records do not show the name of the place.

Seee Peter's response, above. It may well be worth while hunting out any admission registers to see what they record.


Regarding the warrant

Hunting for a warrant is a really long shot.


Emma Roberts (nee Harvey) b. 1864 Bethnal Green. In 1893 she married Charles Roberts.....the father of Emma's 3 older children but then he either died or scarpered around the time that she was pregnant or the birth in early 1888 of their third child.

Does he turn up in the GRO death index?

Does he appear in the 1901 census anywhere?



Fairly soon after he disappeared Emma took up with another man who she lived with on and off but never married! He was William STAINES b. abt. 1862 London. He was the father of her THREE younger children - Alice, William (my grandfather) and Jenny.

Do you have any of their birth certificates? If so what do they show? Do they give a specific address at birth? Were they all born at one address, or at different locations?


However, it appears she couldn't cope and, sometime between late 1898 and 1900, she is said to have taken the children somewhere 'possibly out into the countryside near Bethnal Green' and dumped the four children.

'said' by whom? Is there any paperwork to back this up? Does it come down through the family from her children?

You might check local newspapers to see if there is any report which provides additional information.

Granted that there were probably lots of lasses called Emma Roberts about this time, can you find any trace of her in the GRO death index?

If she was on the stage - are there any adverts in local newspapers?

Do read the above replies which have useful advice

[carolmcb]

If you give us the census reference (preferably) or at least the details of who to look for, I think someone here will be able to tell you the name of the institution. Once that is known, we can advise on surviving records.

Hello Peter, many thanks for your response. This is where I found the children:-

1901 England Census > Essex > Leyton > North Leyton > District Bethnal Green Union Schools Reference RG13/1622 pg.15 109

on line 1 is Elizabeth Roberts 13 - she was my grandfather's older sister.
on line 2 is William Roberts 7 - my grandfather (though I recently discovered that he was illegitmate and his real father was William Staines.
on line 3 is Ethel Roberts - I don't think she is related.

on line 9 is Jenny Roberts 5 - she is my grandfather's younger sister.

regards Maureen

[carolmcb]

If you click on User CP (top left), then Edit Options, then look under Messaging and Notification, you can opt to have an e-mail sent to you if anyone replies to your thread. You can opt for instant, daily or weekly notification of all replies.

hi Sue, I followed your advice and think I have it sorted now, many thanks for your instructions. regards Maureen

[carolmcb]

Hi Geoffers, you are quite right but I've been so busy and preoccupied for many months now as last year a cousin of my Dad's 'found' me and we've been dead busy ever since getting to know each others' side of the family, swapping documents, information, photos etc., and whilst that was going on I was then suddenly contacted by 5 more cousins on my mum's side - 3 in various parts of Canada, one in France and one in Denmark - again this has been/is very hectic trying to keep up with it all!

I have tried checking out a warrant and I agree with you that it is difficult, especially as the police never caught my great grandmother.

Does he turn up in the GRO death index? - again a difficult one as he does not show up so I don't know what happened to him. My g. grandmother told Barnardos that he died some years earlier but I can't find him in the deaths AND she never married William Staines, just lived with him on and off whilst having 3 children to him. I believe her family turned their backs on her for her loose morals.

I can't find him in 1901 and it was quite a common name so it's possible I've missed him somewhere. Will continue to search though.

Birth details? = The only address I do have is in 1891 when the family are shown as living @ 33 Turin Street, Bethnal Green, but the father's name (head of house) is shown as 'ditto' Roberts. However, we know this is not her husband because he disappeared around the time of the birth of Elizabeth in 1888 and in 1890 she had baby Alice to William Staines who was by then living with Emma.

Unfortunatly I don't have their birth certificates and have spent a lot of money on incorrect ones for my grandfather William.

I have some info from Barnardos about the 2 sisters who were sent to Canada. In the report it says that the mother and children were living in homeless shelters. Regarding the part about the abandonment - my grandfather used to tell us that he remembered his mother abandoning them and that he was small. He said he remembered watching her lay the baby on the ground wrapped in a blanket before she walked away and he never saw her again. Since I've been in contact with his relatives these past few months I've learned from one old lady (she's the daughter of his elder sister Elizabeth) that my great grandmother - after signing two of the girls over to be sent to Canada - one day took the other four children for a day out in the countryside (possibly Epping forest) and dumped them there. She walked away, leaving them but they were found and the police were called.

I've checked the papers online but I can't find anything about it.

EMMA ROBERTS (nee Harvey) - I now have a copy of her birth certificate which shows she was born in 1864 Bethnal Green - daughter of William Harvey & Jane Weaver.

After abandoning the children she is difficult to trace but she next shows up in 1913 when she marries a George Hunnable in West Ham.

I contacted the Britannia Theatre and some others but they don't know anything about her. Mind you, she was most likely using an assumed name.

Thank you, everybody for you kind interest and helpful hints. Maureen

[Peter Goodey]

1901 England Census > Essex > Leyton > North Leyton > District Bethnal Green Union Schools

Well, that is the name of the place - the Bethnal Green Union Schools in Leytonstone (reference RG 13/1622 folio109 page 15).

There are some surviving documents of the Bethnal Green Board of Guardians covering the period you're interested in that may be some help.

"Register of children deserted"

"Register of Children and Adults at various institutions"

"Leytonstone Childrens Home: Creed Register"

There are also some documents that are new ones on me but which may be useful called "History Sheets of Children".

All these should be visible in the online catalogue. You, or someone on your behalf, would have to visit the LMA in person to examine the documents.

[carolmcb]

Hi Peter, thank you for the advice, regards Maureen