Help needed, going round in circles????

[samgibbons56]

Hello,
I wonder if anyone can help me in my dilemma??|banghead|
By chance I came across Edmund Taylor's bapt at St Marys Oldham in July 1838 parents Benjamin and Mary (my thanks to the person that posted the link on this forum to Lancs OPC :D), all good so far!
My problem is now to work out which one of many Edmunds is the correct one to order a birth cert for. Freebmd have several in Rochdale, Haslingden and 1 in Ashton, the Ashton one at first looked the most promising but it is in Dec 1/4, after finding the bapt I was then stumped as to why it should be so much later??|help|
The family were living at Greenacres which I believe is in Royton and Lancs BMD have an Edmund bn at Royton in 1838 but it doesn't give the month so again still no joy......
So, after all this preamble, my question is :- if it was you which one would you go for??|help|
I look forward to your answers, thanks for looking.
Regards
Sam

[ChrisKelly]

Well, if it was me I would start with the Ashton Under Lyne one as that is the correct district for a birth in Oldham.
Good luck.
:)

[Geoffers]

The 1841 census in Haslingden records:

Edmund, 4 years, son of Edmund and Ann HO107/506/12 f43 p4
Edmond, 2 years, son of Timothy and Hannah HO107/506/2 f15 p22

The 1841 census for Rochdale records:
Edd, aged 3, son of James and Betty HO107/550/8 f31 p26
Edmund, aged 3, son of Edmund and Ezebel HO107/550/7 f29 p15
Edmund, aged 3, son of Edmund and Hannah HO107/552/2 f36 p12
Edmund, aged 3, son of Samuel and Hannah HO107/552/6 f45 p18
There are also two Edwards aged 2.

Along with any deaths of Edmund Taylors in 1838-9, how many is that likely to eliminate - how many are left over and where?

(Assuming that your chap's birth was registered - not all were in the early years).

[Peter Goodey]

Ashton under Lyne is the registration district for Oldham. If you have a choice of registrations, get GRO to check for you, don't guess.

FreeBMD isn't working for me at the moment so I can't check but be prepared for the possibility that the birth wasn't registered.

I take it that you have supporting evidence to confirm that the baptism does relate to your man.

[Geoffers]

Ashton under Lyne is the registration district for Oldham. If you have a choice of registrations, get GRO to check for you, don't guess.

FreeBMD isn't working for me at the moment so I can't check but be prepared for the possibility that the birth wasn't registered.

There is one birth in Dec 1838 in Ashton (taken from the full GRO index)
Vol 20, Page 37

[samgibbons56]

Thanks Peter,
The bapt at St Marys is as follows:
28 July 1838 Edmund Taylor s/o Benjamin and Mary Abode Greenacres Occup Spinner.
There were 2 families in Royton at the time both Benjamin Taylor with wife Mary, "mine" were at Greenacres up until 1861, the others at Downing Street until Benjamin #2 died between '51 and '61.
Just to add to the confusion they had children with the same names but only 1 Edmund.
I am hoping that the other Edmund bn Chadderton also in 1838 was one of theirs but you can see my dilemma with this family!
Regards
Sam


Ashton under Lyne is the registration district for Oldham. If you have a choice of registrations, get GRO to check for you, don't guess.

FreeBMD isn't working for me at the moment so I can't check but be prepared for the possibility that the birth wasn't registered.

I take it that you have supporting evidence to confirm that the baptism does relate to your man.

[samgibbons56]

Hi Geoffers,
This is the birth I was looking at originally, then got cold feet!
Sam


There is one birth in Dec 1838 in Ashton (taken from the full GRO index)
Vol 20, Page 37

[Alan Welsford]

Sam,

It's possible the one in Ashton Under Lyne in the December quarter is the same as the one baptised on 28th July.

But it would have to be a very late registration, so I personally wouldn't feel that confident.

If it did prove to be the right parents, don't be entirely surprised if a date of birth quoted proves to be after the date of the baptism. :confused: People sometimes lied to the registrar to avoid any penalty for registering late.

As others have said, that close to the start of civil registration it's not unusual to find a birth not registered at all, particularly if there is a baptism. It's often stated that some people still believed a baptism counted as registering, and genuinely didn't understand the need to do both. I don't know how true that is.

Alan

[samgibbons56]

Hi Alan,
I guess I'll have to order the Ashton cert and hope it's the right family, I can't make any progress until I have the mother's maiden name, although the Lancs bmd site gives an Edmund bn Royton 1838 with mother's maiden name of Riley.
Thanks for your help once more.
Regards
Sam:D



Sam,

It's possible the one in Ashton Under Lyne in the December quarter is the same as the one baptised on 28th July.

But it would have to be a very late registration, so I personally wouldn't feel that confident.

If it did prove to be the right parents, don't be entirely surprised if a date of birth quoted proves to be after the date of the baptism. :confused: People sometimes lied to the registrar to avoid any penalty for registering late.

As others have said, that close to the start of civil registration it's not unusual to find a birth not registered at all, particularly if there is a baptism. It's often stated that some people still believed a baptism counted as registering, and genuinely didn't understand the need to do both. I don't know how true that is.

Alan

[Geoffers]

I guess I'll have to order the Ashton cert and hope it's the right family, I can't make any progress until I have the mother's maiden name

Did Edmund have any siblings with unusual name combinations who can definitely be traced in the GRO index.

By any slight chance of a miracle, are there any later census returns which include a sister/brother/mother/father-in-law with the TAYLOR family?

[Alan Welsford]

Hi Alan,
I guess I'll have to order the Ashton cert and hope it's the right family, I can't make any progress until I have the mother's maiden name, although the Lancs bmd site gives an Edmund bn Royton 1838 with mother's maiden name of Riley.
Thanks for your help once more.
Regards
Sam:D

My feeling is that if Royton fell under Ashton-under-Lyne, which it appears it did, that the Royton birth on Lancs BMD for 1838, will prove to be the same one as in the GRO indexes in Ashton-under-Lyne registration district.

I think, therefore, it will still be for a birth registered in the final quarter of 1838. (Unless you can find other births on Lancs BMD for 1838, which would also have fallen within Ashton-inder-Lyne).

I may be wrong, but if I am it seems a long while after that baptism.

Someone may be able to fault that logic, though, I'm not sure.

Alan

[Jan1954]

I may be wrong, but if I am it seems a long while after that baptism.

Someone may be able to fault that logic, though, I'm not sure.

Suggestion: The birth registration is correct, the baptism transcription has the wrong year. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee187/Jan_07/shrug.gif

[samgibbons56]

Hi Geoffers,
There was a brother Ambrose born 1841 but the freebmd has it as readable and checking the gro indexes shows the page to be smudged, so no help there. All the other siblings are the usual Ann, Alice, Henry.........
No in-laws unfortunately, which are always a welcome bonus.
IGI has a marriage between a Benjamin Taylor and Mary Riley in 1831 which is a possibility, if it is the correct family then it rules out an earlier Edmund bapt 1830 bur 1831.
Thanks for your help.
Sam



Did Edmund have any siblings with unusual name combinations who can definitely be traced in the GRO index.

By any slight chance of a miracle, are there any later census returns which include a sister/brother/mother/father-in-law with the TAYLOR family?

[samgibbons56]

Hi Jan,
Hadn't thought of that, will have to add St Marys Oldham to my list of films to order from the LDS, I am finally feeling confident in my French:confused:
to make the 1 hour drive to Limoges to order them:D
Thanks
Sam



Suggestion: The birth registration is correct, the baptism transcription has the wrong year. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee187/Jan_07/shrug.gif

[MythicalMarian]

Hi there - Oldham, while being within the Ashton Reg District, is actually included separately as an area on the Lancashire BMD site. I found two births for two Edmund Taylors:

One was born at Crmpton, Oldham 1838 (Ref No: CR/1/155) - Mum's maiden name TAYLOR (perhaps an illegitimate boy, but no guarantees)
One was born at Royton, Oldham 1838 (Ref No: ROY/1/174) - Mum's maiden name RILEY

Any use to you?

[MythicalMarian]

Just to add - do you have your Greenacres family from the 1841 census? It shows that Edmund has two elder sisters, Alice and Ann. Do you need details? Happy to post if you don't have them.

Gail

[samgibbons56]

Hi,
Yes found both of those, I think the Royton one is the one I need:confused:
but not sure. I know the family were at Greenacres and (I believe) that is in Royton, in 1841 - 1851.
I keep hoping that some little bit of my partners family will be straight forward but no such luck.
Will order the Ashton cert tonight and hope it's the right family.
Thanks for your help.
Sam
Hi there - Oldham, while being within the Ashton Reg District, is actually included separately as an area on the Lancashire BMD site. I found two births for two Edmund Taylors:

One was born at Crmpton, Oldham 1838 (Ref No: CR/1/155) - Mum's maiden name TAYLOR (perhaps an illegitimate boy, but no guarantees)
One was born at Royton, Oldham 1838 (Ref No: ROY/1/174) - Mum's maiden name RILEY

Any use to you?

[MythicalMarian]

Sam,

I've just been scouring something else. The little Henry who is one year old with the Greenacres family on the 1841 census (and Greenacres was denoted as 'Oldham-above-Town', not Royton) has birth registration in 1840 in Oldham above Town (Lancashire BMD) with Mum's maiden name of CHADWICK. Staying with the Taylors on that 1841 census at Greenacres are two other Chadwicks - a Catherine, aged 25 and a Vincent, aged 1.

Might be a clue.

[samgibbons56]

Hi,
Hadn't noticed that, had picked up Henry's birth but thought it was probably too common.
Just off to have another squint at the '41, 'cos dummy here completely overlooked the possibilty of family.......|banghead||banghead|
Thank you Marian or should that be Mythical |blush|
Sam


Sam,

I've just been scouring something else. The little Henry who is one year old with the Greenacres family on the 1841 census (and Greenacres was denoted as 'Oldham-above-Town', not Royton) has birth registration in 1840 in Oldham above Town (Lancashire BMD) with Mum's maiden name of CHADWICK. Staying with the Taylors on that 1841 census at Greenacres are two other Chadwicks - a Catherine, aged 25 and a Vincent, aged 1.

Might be a clue.

[samgibbons56]

Hi all,
Doh, I hadn't picked up on the fact that the Taylor family had so many people living with them|blush|. Noticed William and was a little side-tracked by the family of Lees's living next door (they might be "mine".......)|blush|
I wonder if Sarah Armistead is also related??
Perhaps Henry is the one to go for, although he seems to be missing in 1851, but will have another look for him in a mo!!
Thanks, this is great maybe I CAN solve something after all........
Sam

[Geoffers]

There was a brother Ambrose born 1841 but the freebmd has it as readable and checking the gro indexes shows the page to be smudged, so no help there.

Jun 1841
Ambrose TAYLOR
Ashton
Vol 20 Page 143

It's also on Lancashirebmd (http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.html) which shows the mother's maiden name as LEES.

[MythicalMarian]

Jun 1841
Amrbose TAYLOR
Ashton
Vol 20 Page 143

It's also on Lancashirebmd (http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.html) which shows the mother's maiden name as LEES.

I noticed that too - every child we seem to hit on has a different mother! On the Lancs BMD, this Ambrose was certainly born in Oldham |banghead|

[samgibbons56]

Thanks Geoffers,
I am beginning to suspect that Benjamin had a harem:D
I think maybe I'll play safe and order Henry's cert if I can track down a gro for him at least (mad a mistake before about the '51:o) it is Ambrose that goes missing:o
|book|
Sam

Jun 1841
Amrbose TAYLOR
Ashton
Vol 20 Page 143

It's also on Lancashirebmd (http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.html) which shows the mother's maiden name as LEES.

[samgibbons56]

Hi all,
Is there a smillie for slowly going round the bend???
Sam

[MythicalMarian]

Hi all,
Is there a smillie for slowly going round the bend???
Sam

Well, I don't envy you with TAYLOR - Sam. I have a 3xgreat grandma Mary Ann Taylor. She was born before Civil Reg too - so I'm not even going there.... To make matters worse - she married a TURNER! Where are the Farquharson-Featherstonehaughs when you need 'em? :D

But never say die....Benjamin and Edmund are at least slightly better names than William or Thomas.

[samgibbons56]

Hi,
Yes, but, there were 3 Benjamins born in Royton at around the same time, so not much hope working out the correct one|banghead|, what with them, the Lees, Rhodes, Lindleys and Wooleys, all of whom are being deliberately elusive.......... not that I'm paranoid at all , twitch; twitch...........
Sam|banghead|
Oh, for the joy of an uncommon name:D:D


Well, I don't envy you with TAYLOR - Sam. I have a 3xgreat grandma Mary Ann Taylor. She was born before Civil Reg too - so I'm not even going there.... To make matters worse - she married a TURNER! Where are the Farquharson-Featherstonehaughs when you need 'em? :D

But never say die....Benjamin and Edmund are at least slightly better names than William or Thomas.