View Full Version : Newbie looking for Coates in Bradford/Salford
Hi, As you can tell by the title i am a newbie, not long been looking into the family history but i am looking for Coates family. I do know that my great grandfather was born 1878c in Bradford, in 1901 was living as a boarder in Pendleton, Salford with his wife to be and her family... before this i am stuck... I have found out that they married in the Parish Church, Salford 1901 which in turn was St Georges Church Salford.... i have been informed this has now been converted into flats... Does anybody know where i might find the records from this church as i would like to confirm the parents on the marriage registry as i have a possibility of who Thomas' parents maybe... I am trying to do this for my grandma using all resources i can and as little money as possible, unfortunately cant buy everything :(
Thanks in advance for any guidance given...
MrsA
(cumbria)
Alan Welsford
08-03-2008, 02:39 PM
Hello MrsA, and welcome!
You seem to have quite a lot of information on this couple, including names, (and possibly those of her parents, if you have her family in a census), as well as a year and place of marriage.
But it doesn't sound like you have a marriage record, that will help lead to his father.
You don't give his full name, nor hers at all, I think, but unless hers is a very common one, I'd have thought there were not going to be too many possibilities for a Salford marriage in 1901. It should be able to find them in the GRO indexes, and order up a certificate, I'd have thought.
Can you give more detail, including both names, and where you have found them in the census.
Best wishes,
Alan
My great great grandfathers name is Thomas Coates he married a Mary Alice Bradbury
her father was Joseph Bradbury and her mother was Mary Alice Bradbury, as for Thomas i have an inckling that his fathers name is John Coates and Mothers name is Martha, i just need to confirm this....
i found them on the 1901 census using ancestry, i have a limited number of days left at the mo and am unsure when i will be able to subscibe again.
It was via military records that i found out they were married in the parish church in salford april 18th i think 1901
Many thanks
MrsA
Alan Welsford
08-03-2008, 03:11 PM
Whilst awaiting your reply, I've jumped to some possible conclusions, (always dangerous), so this may be a complete red herring.
Are your couple Thomas COATES and Mary BRADBURY please ?
If so this looks like the GRO Index entries for their marriage registration....
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1901
---------------------------------------
BRADBURY Mary Alice Salford 8d 37
COATES Thomas Salford 8d 37
The 'Jun' refers to the June quarter of 1901, so the marriage was somewhere between April and June, (and the census tells us they were not yet married on March 31st - so that agrees).
I'f I've found thee right wedding, you can order a certificate online at.....
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates
Provided Thomas wasn't illegitimate, this should give his father's name and occupation.
If I've found the wrong people, please supply details, and I'll look again, (I was going off just one surname, and no forenames! :o)
Alan
WELL DONE ALAN :D
You jumped to the correct conclusions :D
Thank you for the link !
Many Thanks
MrsA
Alan Welsford
08-03-2008, 03:15 PM
OK I've just cross posted with you!
I guessed the right couple for you, I think, so you can now invest £7 to purchase a certificate, which will hopefully confirm what you already know, and provide a definite father for Thomas.
I've shown a link to buy the certificate centrally. it may also be possible to buy online from a local registrars office. Cost is £7, either way.
Or if you know the church, and can get to a relevant records office, you could probably view the original register, (probably on microfilm). The information should be the same as on a GRO certificate.
Alan
Alan Welsford
08-03-2008, 03:36 PM
It was via military records that i found out they were married in the parish church in salford april 18th i think 1901
Many thanks
MrsA
I assume you have the detail from WW1 records then - The one I've found lists 4 children, born between August 1901, (another short pregnancy ?:o), and 1910.
Let me know!
Alan
Hello Alan, yes i do have the WW1 records... the 4 children are my great grandmother born 1910 and her 2 brothers and sister... along with that i have also found one of my great grandmothers brothers military records, his name is also Thomas Coates, he was a grenadier guard. Finding the WW1 records was a huge breakthrough for me as i needed to confirm my great grandmothers parents (using as many free sources/sources i have available) and the WW1 record did that for me! :D
Alan Welsford
08-03-2008, 06:21 PM
Hello Alan, yes i do have the WW1 records... the 4 children are my great grandmother born 1910 and her 2 brothers and sister... along with that i have also found one of my great grandmothers brothers military records, his name is also Thomas Coates, he was a grenadier guard. Finding the WW1 records was a huge breakthrough for me as i needed to confirm my great grandmothers parents (using as many free sources/sources i have available) and the WW1 record did that for me! :D
An interesting record I thought.
Clearly as a married man,and relatively old, he was under no obligation to enlist as early as 1914, and must have been keen to serve, (conscription of people in his circumstances came a lot later).
It looks like he had lost a finger before hostilities, and that was in part to what led to him being discharged as medically unfit, (or that was my reading of it anyway).
Given the fate of many 1914-1918, it sounds like a blessing in disguise to me.
Anyway, even though we have the marriage date and location from that army record, I think the certificate is a must to put you on a firm footing to knowing his father's name and occupation.
Keep us posted with how you get on.
Alan
I will let you know how i get on you have been a great help..... reading the military record for my gggrandfather and reading the descriptions of his hair colour/body type down to the scars was very emotional!i suprised myself.... i expect the loss of his finger occured while he was working in the mills... he was a mechanic/engineer in the mills at salford.
Im in agreement with you tho i think i have to bite the bullet and buy his marriage certificate, cant really buy his birth certificate as i dont knowh is parents name!
MrsA
Just had confirmation that my Thomas Coates father was John Coates (Labourer), the John Coates thought was his dad was a watchman in the 1901 census (year of marriage also) , do you think this is an issue? or could it be that he isnt infact the right family i was looking at? i think for peace of mind i will have to find his mothers name.
This information is from Thomas and Mary Alices marriage registry/certificate.
MrsA
Alan Welsford
18-03-2008, 04:11 PM
Mrs A,
I'm not having a lot of luck on Brit Gen forum at the moment.
For 3rd time in as many days, I had typed up a comprehensive answer when the site froze and I lost the lot.
This will have to be much quicker.
I'm a bit surprised that the John you want to be Thomas' father is a watchman in 1891 and 1901 census, but that the marriage certificate gives that John an occupation of labourer. It's particularly strange as marriage was in 1901 only shortly after the census. I don't think it's too big a problem, but it means you need more supporting evidence, I'd say.
In practice you know from the 1901 census that you are looking for a Thomas COATES born in Bradford around 1878, and you now know additionally that his father is John.
The very good news is that censuses show in 1881 and 1891 only one Thomas COATES that matches these criteria. I therefore think you can be very confident his parents are the ones you think, namely John & Martha, (albeit that he has lost one year from his age in 1901, over what was reported in the previous 2 censuses).
I think you need to try and find his birth registration, but I'll post this for now, so as not to lose it....
A question. What age is recorded for Thomas on the marriage certificate, please, or does it just say "of full age" or "21" ?
Alan
Alan Welsford
18-03-2008, 04:28 PM
The reason I ask about age, is that there are quite a lot of Thomas COATES births registered in Bradford at a similar time.
In order to make the best guess at which one is him we need to be as accurate as possible as we can about when he was born.
I'd tend to trust the earlier censuses, and base things on his 4 years of age in 1881. I calculate that should mean birth between about April 1877 and Mar 1878.
I've listed birth and death registrations a bit either side of this, (at the end). I would say the best match will be one of the two registrations occurring in the June quarter of 1877. (The other one will probably be balanced by the infant death that occurred in the December quarter of the same year).
Unfortunately there is no way of guessing which is the right registration, so your first attempt may get the wrong one. You can apply asking for a check on father's name being John. If that Thomas doesn't have John as a father, no certificate will be issued, but you get some money back. I'm hoping it will take a maximum of 2 attempts to get the right certificate.
That's all rattled off in a bit of a hurry, so if anything is unclear, please ask,
Alan
Births Jun 1875
-----------------------------------------
COATES Thomas Bradford Yorks 9b 279
Births Jun 1876
------------------------------------------
COATES Thomas Bradford, Y. 9b 117
Births Jun 1877
---------------------------------------
COATES Thomas Bradford, Y. 9b 279
COATES Thomas Bradford, Y. 9b 296
Deaths Dec 1877
----------------------------------------
COATES Thomas 0 Bradford, Y. 9b 167
Births Dec 1878
---------------------------------------
Coates Thomas Bradford, Y. 9b 159
Deaths Dec 1878
---------------------------------------
COATES Thomas 0 Bradford Y. 9b 137
Hello Alan, i was sent an email from manchester archives regarding the marriage registry and gave me all the details on it... Thomas age was given as 22.... no date of birth unfortunately. Indeed i am hoping that John and Martha are Thomas parents, you do have a good eye for this! I too agree that with the confusion about occupations its not enough for me to be happy to say John and Martha are his family, looks like i shall have to get a birth certificate to give me his mothers name.
Jan1954
18-03-2008, 07:27 PM
I'm not having a lot of luck on Brit Gen forum at the moment.
For 3rd time in as many days, I had typed up a comprehensive answer when the site froze and I lost the lot.
This will have to be much quicker.
Alan
Alan,
I've found that the easiest way of dealing with this, especially if you are giving a really detailed reply, is to type it up in a word document and then copy/paste into the reply window on the thread.
Hopefully, if you lose the internet connection, you should still have the message holding on the PC, saving you the annoyance of having to type it out again.
However, this answer does not deal with the question of why your screen froze in the first place...
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee187/Jan_07/thSmiley7.gif
Alan Welsford
18-03-2008, 11:53 PM
Alan,
I've found that the easiest way of dealing with this, especially if you are giving a really detailed reply, is to type it up in a word document and then copy/paste into the reply window on the thread.
Hopefully, if you lose the internet connection, you should still have the message holding on the PC, saving you the annoyance of having to type it out again.
Yes, I agree, and if I'm being organised that's what I do.
Put that another way - it's not what I usually remember to do!
It's also much easier to compose a reply when not constrained by the small text box on the forum pages - i.e. you can see more of it on the screen as you work on it.
uksearch
19-03-2008, 01:53 PM
Hang fire on this one...I've only just spotted it. This must be a Charlesworth marriage.
UK
uksearch
19-03-2008, 07:34 PM
Oh...forget that I see that you already have the details:o
UK
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