Newbie looking for WATERWORTH

[Hdboston]

Greetings!
My name is Heather and I'm from just North of Boston, Massachusetts in the USA. My Mother's side of the family came from Ireland and England. Her Mother's (my Grandmother) side came from England. She had asked me if I would do some more research on her Grandfather and gave me the information she had on his birh certificate. The copy she had was very difficult to read, so please pardon me for any errors in spelling or town names. Also, I don't understand much of what she told me over the phone, she just read down the certificate for me. She would love to find family there, and now that she knows where he came from, she would like to plan a trip and see what surroundings the family left behind to come to the States.

Her Grand-Father:
Nathan Waterworth
Born: November 4, 1882
To the Parents James Waterworth and Elizabeth (Cunliffe *SP?) Waterworth
Place of birth: 395 Station Raod
HADFIELD, COUNTY OF DERBY
HADFIELD (?)
Sub District of GLOSSOP
Registration District of HAYFIELD (Hadfield and Hayfield, need to figure out if it's a spelling error)
Entry of birth filed in SOMERFIELD, England

It's rumored that Nathan came here about the age of 10. He died at age 64 on August 19, 1947 in Lowell, Massachusetts. His cause of death was "Right Ventricular Heart Failure, Mitral Stenosis, Bronchial Asthma.

I only have a bit of information as to Nathan WATERWORTH's parents:
James J. WATERWORTH was born in WALES
Elizabeth CUNLIFFE was born in ENGLAND

Any help in any way would be much appreciated!
Thank you!
Heather

[Neil Wilson]

Hello Heather and welcome to the forum.
Have a browse around and post your queries in the relevant forum.

Regarding Derbyshire, there is a Hadfield and a Hayfield.
This is taken from my site (link is in my signature)
HADFIELD, a township and ancient village, two miles W.N.W. from Glossop
HAYFIELD is a considerable village, township, and chapelry, in the King’s Field, 4¾ miles S. from Glossop, 4½ N. from Chapel-en-le-Frith

Hope this clears up the confusion.
Good luck with your research

[Hdboston]

Hi Neil!
Thank you for the nice welcome as well as that information!

This may sound silly, but do tourists actually visit this area? I was curious to know if there are any hotels? My Mother will not rent a car due to the opposite side of the road driving that we both fear. She wants to see where her Great-Grandparent's (Nathan's Parents) were married

When we went to England together as a family many years ago, we didn't have all the information that we do now. I was able to use Google Earth and capture a screen shot of the street Nathan WATERWORTH was born on. It's not always accurate on pin pointing the actual home, but you can actually view the satellite picture! My new favorite too!

I'm just getting use to using these message boards, but I wanted to let people know that if they need assistance in tracking their relatives in the state of Massachusetts I would be willing to help! I can usually obtain copies of Deeds to the homes they lived in, birth certificates, obituaries and death certs.

Thanks again!
Heather

[Bo Peep]

|wave|Hello Heather and welcome to the Brit-Gen forum. I am delighted you have joined us and hope you will get lots of help with your research.

[melsibob]

I have just found Nathaniel Waterworth on the 1891 census. This shows that Nathaniel was stated to have been born in Hadfield, Derbyshire. His parents were Elizabeth and James - so I think this is the correct one. James was a Cotton Weaver and Elizabeth was "Card Room Hand Cotton", James was born in Oswestry, Shropshire, Elizabeth was born in Stanish, Lancashire. At the time of the census the family lived in Hyde, Cheshire.

On the birth record I traced it appears Nathaniel was born in Hayfield.

I had a quick look on 1901 census but haven't found the famil yet - I will look later if you wish.

[melsibob]

It appears that James Waterworth and Elizabeth Cunliff (that's how it is spelt on Freebmd) married in 1879 in Stockport.

[melsibob]

I forgot to add in the approximate birth years for James and Elizabeth in my orginal reply - these are 1856 for Elizabeth and 1859 for James. I have tried to follow these back further but have not been successful I am afraid. When I searched for Stanish in Lancashire I found this does not exist!

Let me know if I can help further.

[melsibob]

I have found a James and Elizabeth Waterworth in 1881 census. This provides approximate year of birth as 1857 for James and 1856 for ELizabeth. James is shown as being born in Stockport and Elizabeth in Hyde. Both were working in a Cotton Mill. It may be a coincidence that I have found a James and Elizabeth in which Elizabeth is the older partner - but I also think it is not impossible that these are the same people. I think you would need copies of birth certifcates and marriage certificates to clarify this one!

[Neil Wilson]

Hi Neil!
Thank you for the nice welcome as well as that information!

This may sound silly, but do tourists actually visit this area? I was curious to know if there are any hotels? My Mother will not rent a car due to the opposite side of the road driving that we both fear. She wants to see where her Great-Grandparent's (Nathan's Parents) were married


Thanks again!
HeatherHi Heather
The hotels vary from travel lodge type to the ones with ***'s It all depends on whether you are going to used it for a base for a few days or longer and the service you want (in some it is basic bed, breakfast (extra) TV and kettle). There is a bus service between Manchester and various places that passes through Glossop, which would be the best base for the 2 places and seeing your mum isn't keen on driving, local taxi's to take you the either Hadfield or Hayfield.

Below you go, post on the Derbyshire forum as I am sure that there are members who know this part of Derbyshire better than me.

[Hdboston]

Melsibob! WOW!
That makes sense to me, thank you!
When my Mother was reading his birth certificate to me, she was getting confused with Hadfield and Hayfield, Derby and Derbyshire. She thought that they may have been mis spellings and I did too. We aren't all that familiar with the way the towns, counties or communities are over there. It would also make sense if you hadn't found him in the latter census because the family believes he was 10 years of age when he came to the USA with Elizabeth and James, his parents.

I have a copy of his obituary in my posession and his name is listed as NATHAN but my Mother did say that some of her siblings (11 siblings) thought his name was NATHANIEL.

Should I scan and post his Obituary somewhere for others to have access to it? I'm so new to a site like this and the kindness of everyone that provides the information. I would like to help where I can too!

[Hdboston]

I have found a James and Elizabeth Waterworth in 1881 census. This provides approximate year of birth as 1857 for James and 1856 for ELizabeth. James is shown as being born in Stockport and Elizabeth in Hyde. Both were working in a Cotton Mill. It may be a coincidence that I have found a James and Elizabeth in which Elizabeth is the older partner - but I also think it is not impossible that these are the same people. I think you would need copies of birth certifcates and marriage certificates to clarify this one!

I'm positive one of my older Aunts or Uncles would know if Elizabeth was older than James. My Mother might, but she was toward the middle/end of the 12 children in her family.

On Nathan's record of death that I have in front of me, it states his father's name as JAMES J WATERWORTH. I'm not sure if you may have a middle initial for James, but it could be a start.

I could also post this certificate of death somewhere in order to help others. I just wouldn't know where.

Thanks SO much for all of your help! This site is fantastic and the people here are so kind to offer their assistance!

[Graham Hadfield]

Hello Heather,

The villages of Hadfield and Hayfield are now in the High Peak Council area but archives are held by Derbyshire County Council - see HERE (http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/leisure/local_studies/family_history_resources/default.asp).

Stockport has its own local council with contact for the Archive Service HERE (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/atozindex/archivesrecords?a=5441).

Hyde is within Tameside council area which has a very good Archives Service - see HERE (http://www.tameside.gov.uk/archives).

There is also a thriving Heritage Centre (http://www.glossopheritage.co.uk/) in Glossop and Derbyshire Family History Society (http://www.dfhs.org.uk/) may have information to help you.

If intending to visit the various towns then you will probably find it most convenient to stay somewhere around Manchester, from where you can get trains to Hadfield, Hyde and Stockport.

Graham

[janbooth]

It would make sense that the 1881 census record Melsibob gave you is likely to be the correct one as James and Elizabeth are residing at 88 Main Road, Hadfield and Nathaniel's birth certificate shows him as born in Hadfield in 1882. James is shown as a Cotton Weaver and Elizabeth a Cotton Operative.

I have had a look back on earlier census records for a James WATERWORTH born Oswestry and there is nobody resembling his name born Shropshire on the 1861 census. Mind you, I can't find him born Stockport either!!

I think you should do what Melsibob suggested and order the marriage certificate of James WATERWORTH and Elizabeth CUNLIFF. The marriage was registered in the September qtr 1879 at Stockport registration district, vol 8a, page 80. Certificates can be ordered online at www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ and the marriage certificate will give names and occupations of both fathers which should make tracing James and Elizabeth easier in the early census records.

There is an Elizabeth CUNLIFF in the 1871 census of Dukinfield, Cheshire which is very close to Hyde:

RG10/4075, folio 7, page 7
26 Hertford Street

Joseph CUNLIFF Head Mar 47 Cotton Weaver Bolton Lancashire
Sarah do Wife Mar 46 Gorton do
John do Son Unm 18 Cotton piecer Ashton under Lyne do
Elizabeth do Daur 11 Dukinfield Cheshire
Joseph PRESTWICH Grandson 2 do do

However, you do need your Elizabeth's marriage certificate to confirm whether the census entry above is indeed your Elizabeth.

I also think I have now found what could be your James in the 1871 census of Cheadle Bulkeley, Stockport:

RG10/3662, folio 97, page 3
12 (Six Houses) Northgate Street

Nathan WATREWORTH Head Mar 56 Starch Mixer Lancashire Loton
Jane do Wife Mar 52 Salop Oswestry
Mary do Daur Unm 18 Jack Frame Kicker Cotton Lancashire Patricroft
William do Son Unm 15 Cotton Weaver do do
James do Son 13 do do Bedford
Elizabeth do Daur 9 Scholar do Astley


Here are the same family in the 1861 census of Astley, Lancashire:

RG9/2800, folio 51, page 18
Schedule 105, Shopkeeper

Nathan WATERWORTH Head Mar 45 Tea and Coffee Dealer Lancaster Lowton
Jane do Wife Mar 40 Housekeeper Wales Denbigh
Thomas do Son 12 Ag Lab Lancaster Barton
Nathan do Son 10 do Patricroft
Mary do Daur 8 do do
William do Son 6 do do
James do Son 4 do Eccles

Patricroft is part of Salford, very close to Barton and Eccles.

HTH

Janet

[Hdboston]

Hello Heather,

The villages of Hadfield and Hayfield are now in the High Peak Council area but archives are held by Derbyshire County Council - see HERE (http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/leisure/local_studies/family_history_resources/default.asp).

Stockport has its own local council with contact for the Archive Service HERE (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/atozindex/archivesrecords?a=5441).

Hyde is within Tameside council area which has a very good Archives Service - see HERE (http://www.tameside.gov.uk/archives).

There is also a thriving Heritage Centre (http://www.glossopheritage.co.uk/) in Glossop and Derbyshire Family History Society (http://www.dfhs.org.uk/) may have information to help you.

If intending to visit the various towns then you will probably find it most convenient to stay somewhere around Manchester, from where you can get trains to Hadfield, Hyde and Stockport.

Graham

Graham, |hug|thank you so very much for all those links and information. I wish I could look at them all right now, but my little girl is not feeling well.

I still get very confused will all of these names that I think are towns inside a county? For instance, I live in the State of Massachusetts, the county that I live in is in Middlesex county and the city (or town) I live in is Lowell. Would I be safe to assume that Hadfield and Hayfield are both towns in the county of Derbyshire? |banghead|

Thank goodness we stayed in London and took the tube, trains and busses when we stayed there many years ago! |oopsredfa

[Hdboston]

Janet!
Thank you SO very much for all the information you provided! |hug|
I will order all certificates I can find! I don't know where I would be without all the help you've all given me. My Sister is a wiz at tracing family, but she's working two jobs and not much time to spare. She will be thrilled that we can add this information to the massive binder of information that we have yet to put on line. My Mother, I know, will be most thankful for this information!

During all of my searches I cannont seem to find any living relatives or people searching for the same WATERWORTH family members. :confused:
From what I understand, this is not a very common surname.
Any suggestions?

[Graham Hadfield]

I wish I could look at them all right now, but my little girl is not feeling well.
Hope she is feeling better soon.

I still get very confused will all of these names that I think are towns inside a county? For instance, I live in the State of Massachusetts, the county that I live in is in Middlesex county and the city (or town) I live in is Lowell. Would I be safe to assume that Hadfield and Hayfield are both towns in the county of Derbyshire?

The local government structure in England is somewhat different. For the historical structure look at Genuki (http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/).

England is divided into counties, most of which are further sub-divided into district councils (some districts also have a status of borough). However, some areas are governed by unitary authorities which have both county and district powers. Both Stockport and Tameside councils are examples of unitary authorities but Derbyshire is an area with two tiers, Derbyshire being the county and (as far as your interests go) High Peak being the district.

The areas covered by district councils normally encompass a number of towns and villages. In the case of High Peak, both Hadfield and Hayfield are villages within it.

Some historic villages and hamlets have been swallowed up by large towns as urban growth has occured and are now suburbs rather than distinct communities in their own right.

For a brief explanation of the townships which made up the Ancient Parish of Glossop see my own page HERE (http://www.jigrah.co.uk/glossop/glossop.htm).

Hope this helps,
Graham

[janbooth]

Hi again,

I looked up, via Ancestry, for WATERWORTHs born Lowton, Lancashire in the 1851 census and there are actually quite a few. Given that Nathan snr was born c1816, there is a Benjamin WATERWORTH and family born c1824, a Silk Weaver, born & living in Lowton, an Elias WATERWORTH, born c1801 Lowton, an Ellen WATERWORTH born c1827 Lowton, Simon WATERWORTH, born c1799, Silk Weaver & family born & living in Lowton, a Thomas WATERWORTH, born c1797, Silk Weaver & family, born and living in Lowton plus quite a few others.

Unfortunately, the LDS have only filmed the Bishops Transcripts from 1845 and The Lancs FHS do not appear to have transcribed Lowton parish registers either. The originals seem to be at Wigan Archives with copies at Lancashire Records Office.

A2A (Access to Archives) do appear to have quite a few references to WATERWORTH at Lancashire Records Office - 81 to be precise - so it might be worth your while looking through them to see if any refer to your family.

Nathan senr looks as if he died in the March qtr 1880 at Stockport reg district, vol 8a, page 37, aged 62. Jane is still alive in the 1881 census living at 5 Mirtle Street, Cheadle (RG11/3485, folio 13, page 22) with daughter Elizabeth. Jane looks as if she died in the June qtr 1883 at Stockport reg district, vol 8a, page 57, aged 60.

There is a birth registration for a James WATERWORTH in the December qtr 1857 at Leigh registration district (includes Bedford parish where James son Nathan was born according to the 1871 census record I gave you), vol 8c, page 142 and if the marriage certificate of James & Elizabeth CUNLIFF confirms the father of James is Nathan WATERWORTH, then I think we have cracked it!!

Good luck

Janet

[Hdboston]

Hi again,

I looked up, via Ancestry, for WATERWORTHs born Lowton, Lancashire in the 1851 census and there are actually quite a few. Given that Nathan snr was born c1816, there is a Benjamin WATERWORTH and family born c1824, a Silk Weaver, born & living in Lowton, an Elias WATERWORTH, born c1801 Lowton, an Ellen WATERWORTH born c1827 Lowton, Simon WATERWORTH, born c1799, Silk Weaver & family born & living in Lowton, a Thomas WATERWORTH, born c1797, Silk Weaver & family, born and living in Lowton plus quite a few others.

Unfortunately, the LDS have only filmed the Bishops Transcripts from 1845 and The Lancs FHS do not appear to have transcribed Lowton parish registers either. The originals seem to be at Wigan Archives with copies at Lancashire Records Office.

A2A (Access to Archives) do appear to have quite a few references to WATERWORTH at Lancashire Records Office - 81 to be precise - so it might be worth your while looking through them to see if any refer to your family.

Nathan senr looks as if he died in the March qtr 1880 at Stockport reg district, vol 8a, page 37, aged 62. Jane is still alive in the 1881 census living at 5 Mirtle Street, Cheadle (RG11/3485, folio 13, page 22) with daughter Elizabeth. Jane looks as if she died in the June qtr 1883 at Stockport reg district, vol 8a, page 57, aged 60.

There is a birth registration for a James WATERWORTH in the December qtr 1857 at Leigh registration district (includes Bedford parish where James son Nathan was born according to the 1871 census record I gave you), vol 8c, page 142 and if the marriage certificate of James & Elizabeth CUNLIFF confirms the father of James is Nathan WATERWORTH, then I think we have cracked it!!

Good luck

Janet


James Waterworth is the father of the Nathan (or Nathaniel) that I'm looking for. I didn't know of a Nathan Sr! On the death certificate that I have for Nathan J. Waterworth it states that his father is James J. Waterworth. Birthplace of James J. Waterworth (on Nathan's death certificate) is stated Wales. Elizabeth is listed for his mother and states she was born in England.
Janet, I think you're right on track here! Thank you SOOO much!

I tried to go to the ATA site and I can't find where I can actually look through, or view records on line. I sent an email, but have yet to get a reply. Am I mistaken about being able to view them on line before ordering the certificates?

I really can't thank you all enough for your time and helping me. A blessing!

[Hdboston]

Graham: She's finally feeling better, thank you!:)

Also, thank you for that information. I will look into that more when the little one goes to sleep this evening. I'm now back logged in everything since she got sick.

Finding these relatives will hopefully help us with family health history. Here, they list the cause of death on the certificates. Do you happen to know if they do that there, and if they do, have they always?

My Daughter had cardiac surgery when she was 7 months old. 2 first cousins also were born with heart defects that required surgery as well as my Mother's Sister and a first cousin of hers. We're all linked through the Waterworth's.

Again, Graham, thank you so very much for your assistance. I can't thank you enough! Thank you!|bowdown|

[janbooth]

When you access the site online you will see a red "search" box in the top right hand corner. Click on that and a standard search page will appear. Enter Waterworth into the Keyword search box and then scroll down to Lancashire Record Office in the Location of Archives box. Then click on the red search box on the right hand side of the Keyword box and all the records pertaining to WATERWORTH will appear. Click on the blue hits on the right hand side of the page and the records will then come up. After that it is just a question of searching through to see if any of them are connected to your WATERWORTH family. Good luck

Janet

[Graham Hadfield]

Here, they list the cause of death on the certificates. Do you happen to know if they do that there, and if they do, have they always?

Cause of death is listed on certificates but may not have been in the early years following their introduction in 1837 - or may be inaccurate. For a description of information on death certificates see HERE (http://www.thosedixons.net/certificates/deaths.html).

Graham

[kalexa]

Hi Heather and all
This is Kerry Heather's sister - thanks for all the help you all have given us. I searched the bmd records and it has our ggf name listed as nathaniel - searching all the records (all 3600) for other Waterworth's born in Derbyshire - there were 2 girls that were born around the same time as Nathaniel.

Jane Elizabeth Jane Eliza 1884 Oct-Nov-Dec Hayfield Cheshire, Derbyshire Born & Died in Dec. with a 0 for the age so maybe a stillbirth
Sarah Ellen Sarah Elle 1881 Oct-Nov-Dec Hayfield Cheshire, Derbyshire same as Jane (December baby also) 0 for age

I was lucky as there seems to have been 15 waterworths at the most born in Derbyshire in the entire span of that site.


Thanks
Kerry

[Hdboston]

Thank you, Kerry!

[Neil Wilson]

Hello kalexa/ Kerry, Heather's sister.
Hope you both have success on here and enjoy yourselves sharing the information you find.
Good luck with your research.