Good Afternoon

[mtat61]

My name is Michelle I live in the United States but I was born in England, I have just begun to research my family name "Elsam" and so far I can honestly say it has been a nightmare!! I have little information other than my father and grandfathers name " George Dunstance Elsam." Unfortunately that is all I know. If anyone has any suggestions it would greatly appreciated.

Michelle

[Alan Welsford]

Hi Michelle,

Well you have a fairly distinctive name for your grandfather, which is a good starting point.

Do you know roughly when and/or where he was born, please ?

Does the Wakefield in 1914 sound like it may match ?

If so these look like the GRO Births index details of his birth.

Births Sep 1914
------------------------------------
ELSAM George D Scott Wakefield 9c 13

The 'Sep' means that the birth was registered in the 3rd quarter of 1914, i.e. in Jul, Aug or Sept. The actual birth may have been earlier.

In this registration the mother's maiden name was SCOTT.

If you think this is him you can buy a certificate for £7 online at

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

The only information you need is that I have given '9c' is the Volume, and '13' is Page).

The certificate will tell you date and place of birth, but most importantly both father's and mother's names, which you can then use to look for their wedding, and ultimately their births.

If what's above doesn't look right in terms of year or district, tell us what you do know, and we will look again.

Best wishes

Alan

[Alan Welsford]

I'm being naughty here, as it doesn't pay to jump to the next step in this game, until you have put the last to bed.

But.....

This is a marriage which may have taken place in Wakefield district, before the birth I have just seny you details of....

Marriages Jun 1906
---------------------------------------
Elsam George Wakefield 9c 27
Scott Mary Anne Wakefield 9c 27

I stress may because the way the indexes work, there are two couples on each page, so there ia a choice of 2 spouses for each man or woman appearing. So I can't know for certain that a George ELSAM married a Mary Ann SCOTT, without buying a certificate. But as an ELSAM/SCOTT pairing are having a child in the Wakefield area after this date it's quite likely these two go together, I believe.

I wouldn't buy the marriage certificate at this stage, as a birth certificate for your grandad should confirm if his parents were george & Mary Ann

So why am I adding this information ? - just in case it jogs any memories, or relates to anything you have seen in your family, that might suggest your great grandparents were George and Mary Ann.

(Equally if you know they were not, we can be sure this is the wrong couple :o).

Alan

[kentish kate]

Hello mtat61 welcome on board. Have fun ;) |wave|

[mtat61]

Wow!!! thank you for such a quick response!!! The birth year 1914 sounds about right and the area Wakefield fits. I am trying to put together all the information I have. Thanks again!!!!

[mtat61]

Wow!! thanks again you are incredible!!! Yes, I agree the Mary Anne Scott and George Elsam 1906 does not fit. I believe my grandmothers name was Frances Annie. They had one son named after my grandfather George Dunstance Elsam born in 1942. That is actually all I know other than my father died in 1965 and I have 2 sisters and a half brother. Thank you so much!!!

[mtat61]

Thank You very much!!!

[Alan Welsford]

Wow!! thanks again you are incredible!!! Yes, I agree the Mary Anne Scott and George Elsam 1906 does not fit. I believe my grandmothers name was Frances Annie. They had one son named after my grandfather George Dunstance Elsam born in 1942. That is actually all I know other than my father died in 1965 and I have 2 sisters and a half brother. Thank you so much!!!

Michelle,

If it "belongs" in your ancestry, the marriage I have posted details of in 1906 would be your great grandparents, not your grandparents.

I don't feel confident, because if your grandfather proves to be the one registered as born in 1914, that's 8 years after the marriage I have listed. Perfectly possible of course, particularly if there were other children before your grandfather.

But it is, it seems, possible there are 3 generations of George, (your great grandfather, grandfather & father).

As I said though, order up the birth certificate first. If that says his parents were George ELSAM and Mary Ann SCOTT, then order the marriage certificate.

But if the birth certificate names different parents, we can look for that marriage instead.

As an aside, do you have any idea of the origins of the Dunstance? If you don't, it's highly likely that somewhere back up your tree one of the mothers had that as her maiden surname. This happens a lot.

Best wishes,

Alan

[Geoffers]

My name is Michelle I live in the United States but I was born in England, I have little information other than my father and grandfathers name " George Dunstance Elsam." Unfortunately that is all I know. If anyone has any suggestions it would greatly appreciated.

Do you have a birth and mariage certificate for your dad?

If no, then you need to get them first.

If yes, do you have a marriage certificate for your grandfather?

If you are not sure how to look for references and to purchase certificates, or why they are essential for beginning research, please ask.

Worry not, I started out with less than you in the 1970s and now have over 35,000 recorded events relating to my single name study - things can get a little out of hand after a while.

[mtat61]

I may try to get his birth certificate. I know the year he was born and died however I dont have the specific dates. Must you have specific dates of birth, death and marriage? Is the year in which they occurred sufficient?

[Alan Welsford]

I may try to get his birth certificate. I know the year he was born and died however I don't have the specific dates. Must you have specific dates of birth, death and marriage? Is the year in which they occurred sufficient?

If you give us a full name, and a year for the event, we can look up the GRO index details you need to order a certificate, (the cheapest way of doing it).

I may have lost the plot, but I thought I tried for a George Dustance ELSAM born in 1942. Is that right, please ?

I couldn't immediately find him, but am a bit pressed for time now, so if someone else doesn't get there first, I can look again for you later.

Is there any possibility he could have been registered under another spelling variant.

Finally silly question, perhaps, but he was born in England wasn't he, not the USA !

Alan

[mtat61]

I couldnt find anything on him or myself for that matter. He was born in England 1942 (father). I am having a terrible time trying to get a copy of my Grandfathers birth certificate. Apparently some credit cards for security reasons do not work (confirmed by clerk at records). I have tryed 3 cards but all declined and I know there is sufficient funds LOL. I am going to keep trying !!! Thanks

[Alan Welsford]

I couldnt find anything on him or myself for that matter. He was born in England 1942 (father). I am having a terrible time trying to get a copy of my Grandfathers birth certificate. Apparently some credit cards for security reasons do not work (confirmed by clerk at records). I have tryed 3 cards but all declined and I know there is sufficient funds LOL. I am going to keep trying !!! Thanks

I feel uncomfortable telling you I don't think you know which year your own father was born, BUT (here goes)......

I think you don't know what year yor own father was born (sorry! :o)

I can't find a registration in 1942, but by going back into 1941, I have

Births,
Oct-Dec 1941
ELSAM, George D
Mother's maiden name HOLMES
District: Durham E. Volume: 10a Page: 749

I'm guessing you will know your grand-mother's maiden name, to know if 'HOLMES' sounds correct.

Unless there has been some big mix-up with the GRO indexes, this birth can have been no later than Dec 1941, and might well have been before Oct 1941, as the quarter is when the birth was registered, not necesarily when it occurred.

Unless you are adamant about 1942, I think this must be your dad.

Best wishes,

Alan