Lovekin/Stanford/Smith -Sussex/Kent

[jackiewing2000]

I have a complete dilemma on my hands. John Smith and Emily had 9 children born between 1853 and 1877, each born in a differnet Sussex parish. On the 1881 census they are listed twice at 2 different addresses. John Smith came from Lamberhurst, Kent and Emily was the daughter of Isaac Stanford, a broom maker from Horsham. Isaac Stanford appears to have married twice to 2 Mary Shepperds in Beeding. In 1871 John Smith was listed as a pedler, later as an agricultural labourer. The mystery continues here, as his and Emily's children have a range of different fathers on their marriage and birth certificates - all an assortment of Lovekins! On the censis their names vary from Smith to Lovekin. I understand that the Stanfords were a travelling family. Who was/were Lovekin? I also see in Horsham there was a George Lovekin marriage to a Handford, also possibly a travelling family.

Does anyone have any infoirmation on any of these families? I understand that the Stanfords were travellers/gypsies.

Jackie

[Geoffers]

Welcome to the British-Genealogy forums.

I cannot help specifically, but you may find some specialist knowledge on tracing your families through the Romany and Travellers FHS

Also, if you cannot find your family in earlier census returns, you might try looking for them recorded just by initials - in my own area of interst in NE Norfolk, quite a few travelling and showground folk appear at the back of a census book, staying on some common or another - a few of the people being recorded by initials, some just by description - they can be hard to trace.

[jackiewing2000]

Thanks Geoffers. A very interesting site. Have had a look and can't see any of these names listed, although among the common occupations I see broom maker and pedlar are given. Stranglely, I have another similar, unconnected family, with 2 'spouses' in opposite ends of the country and again a range of children with different names in each family. The 'husband' was an umbrella maker/repairer. Another possibility. Food for thought!

Jackie

[Ann65]

Whilst the names Lovekin and Stanford dont stand out imediately to me as Rom names, my lot were more Midland travellers than southern, so I may well not have heard of them.

What I can say is this:

Appearing twice on a census happens with Rom if they up-sticks and travel over night. Ive seen it before.

Children being baptised or born in different parishes is a heavy clue to Rom ancestry, as is surname changes. Its also quite likely to find them baptised more than once. Or not at all. Depends on the family, and what gifts the local parishioners were liable to give to wet the babys head!!

Occupations such as Broom Maker, Pedlar, Umbrella Maker are all well within Romany margins, and the surname Smith (translates at Petulengro in Romany) is very well known throughout Britain as a Rom Surname. Being listed as an AG LAB isnt uncommon, as they would likely take any work which would bring them money. Many many Roma either settled in houses during winter months, or stayed in Lodgings, and camped out the cold months in one town rather than travel.

Finally, what we could see as a bigamous marriage -especially once you get further back, the Rom see as perfectly normal. Polygamy was totally acceptable to them. Although its unlikely you would find a marriage certificate.

Hope that helps!

[jackiewing2000]

Thanks Ann for your thoughts on this family. The facts certainly point to them being travellers, although it would be nice to have more firm evidence.

The other unconnected travelling umbrella makers and repairers were Wildy/Abley/Smith/Mulheron links to Stroud/ Rodboro/Lincoln and Exeter. Have you heard of them?

Jackie

[tilimangro]

hi
i am a stanford, from farnham way
my grandfather was stanford his father married a crawford ,and the stanford name comes from ireland originally
if you have anymore information regarding this i would love to know, i have quite a bit of information on the crawford side but the stanford side i dont,would love to know more

[laurence.fuller]

Hi
There are a few Romany sites that would be of interest to your research, Just tap in the following site names into your browser?

(1) passing through.
(2) journey folki.
(3) romanygenes.
(4) romanygenes 2.

The first two will give help on joining, they are free to join.
The last two you can search straight off, they have Hundreds of Family name.