Thomas William Cork(or could be William Thomas Cork?)

[Sheila1]

I have been searching for over 10 years ,to find some links on my Grandad,like any siblings? or what happened to him after he was born?
I have his birth certificate,which showed he was born THOMAS WILLIAM CORK.26/3/1881 at Brighton Workhouse.His Mother was stated as SARAH ANN CORK.(married) Formerly TOWNER.of 12.Oxford Place.Brighton.But no father on the certificate!.
On THOMAS WILLIAM CORK marriage certificate 1905.Brighton.it states his father as WALTER GEORGE CORK (Deceased) Bricklayer.I now know at the time of THOMAS'S marriage that his mother SARAH ANN CORK remarried to a HENRY KNIGHT. BUT what happened to WALTER GEORGE CORK?
THOMAS WILLIAM CORK was very much a military man.l have only one photo of him, displaying his medals on his jacket lapel. When my dad died l promised myself l would find out what l could on his family!.My folks were Brighton born and bred,but it hasnt made it any easier.
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards
Sheila

[Bo Peep]

|wave|Hello Sheila and welcome to the Brit-Gen forum. I am delighted you have joined us and wish you every success with your research.

[Jan1954]

Hello Sheila and welcome to the forum |wave|

If you click on the search button in the blue bar towards the top of this page and enter the word TOWNER, you will find a number of threads about the name TOWNER of Brighton. This may give you a link to William CORK (or could it be COOK? - have a look)

Oh yes, have a go at our latest competition too.

[SUSSEXDER]

Hi Sheila 1, So pleased you came to the site, every one here Im sure will help you all they can. They certainly have helped me. Best wishes.
SUSSEXDER.

[greg_ball]

Hi Sheila,
I’ve had a quick look and come up with a few bits…I think this looks pretty likely to be your family. Searching for CORK and TOWNER marriages on FreeBMD, this one came up:

George Thomas CORK m Sarah Ann TOWNER 1867, Lewisham RD

On the 1871 Census they can be found as follows (Living in Brighton):
RG10/1082; Folio: 128; Page: 8; Schedule: 50;
19 Frederick Place, Brighton
George T. CORKE; Head; Mar; 23; Bricklayer; Surrey, Walworth;
Sarah Ann CORKE; Wife; Mar; 24; Charwoman; Sussex, Brighton;
Maria S. CORKE; Daur; ;3; ; Kent, Forest Hill

Im sure you have this, but in 1881, Sarah is in the Brighton Workhouse with newborn Thomas:
Sarah Ann CORK; Pauper; Mar; 34; Charwoman; Sussex, Brigton;
Thos. Wm. CORK; Pauper; ; 12 days; child of above; Sussex, Brighton;

I couldn’t see any of the family on 1891/1901 straight away, but this is a good starting point. There is a Walter George CORK born 1871 in Brighton, and perhaps this was an older brother of Thomas William CORK?

Hope this helps,
Greg

[Sheila1]

Hi Greg,thanks for your time.
I also hit on that family,and best part of me think this IS my great grandmother, l have Walter George Cork birth certificate,and l think he is the same little boy aged 9 that was at Woodingdean (Warren Farm) Industrial School, under the name of George Walter Cork, at the same time as Sarah in the Workhouse having Grandad. But what puzzles me is why was THOMAS William Cork's father named Walter George Cork on THOMAS'S marriage certificate.? I came up with the idea that as Walter junior was 9 years older than THOMAS he looked upon him as his father? I have been in contact with kin folk that had GEORGE THOMAS CORK and SARAH ANN TOWNER as their ancestors, but they had not heard of THOMAS! and why if SARAH was stated as married on THOMAS'S birth certificate it did not have his father's name?
In the 1891 Census the only boy coinsiding with grandad THOMAS CORK'S birth was living as a cousin, with a family by the name of ADAMS, in SOUTH HUISH. DEVON. but his name was William CORK,the wife of the family was called MARY T ADAMS,this could have been MARIA CORK.
l know THOMAS CORK was a military man, because the only photo l have is him standing in the garden in a suit, displaying his row of medals on his jacket

I know SARAH ANN remarried about late 1890's because she was stated as SARAH ANN KNIGHT on THOMAS'S marriage certificate as a witness.1905.
Its the time between him being born and getting married l cant seem to be sure of! l know he was a CAB DRIVER when he got married.

If l could work out that GEORGE THOMAS and SARAH was his true parents ,then that would leed me to ELVEY CORK OF BRIGHTON.

Why oh why did they keep changing names! l have so much paper work l could decorate a room!but l will not give up.
Regards
Sheila
Hope l have'nt worn you out

[greg_ball]

Hi Sheila,

Do you know when George Thomas CORK died? Perhaps he had died before Thomas was born? Or could Sarah have had an illegitimate child with another man? In either case, this would explain why the fathers name could have been missed on the birth certificate.

In 1881, there is a TOWNER family at Oxford Place which means Sarah's residence was with her parents at the time of Thomas' birth, and not with her husband, where was he?

Does the birth certificate for Walter George CORK show parents as George Thomas and Sarah Ann? It seems entirely possible that Walter George was thought of as a father for a younger sibling, especially if George Thomas had died a long while before. I would say the Bricklayer occupation on the marriage certificate is more evidence for this being one and the same family.

Greg

[greg_ball]

I’ve had a bit more of a look and found some of them on the 1891/1901 census…

From FreeBMD, there is the marriage of Maria Sarah CORK to Frederick William KNIGHT in 1885.

In 1891 they are in Brighton, living with a George CORK (almost certainly Walter George CORK). Details as follows:
RG12/811; Folio: 136; Page: 10; Schedule: 74;
40 Frederick Street, Brighton
Frederick KNIGHT; Head; M; 24; Tailor; Sussex, Brighton;
Marie KNIGHT; Wife; M; 23; ; Forest Row;
Frederick KNIGHT; Son; ; 4; ; Sussex, Brighton;
Arthur KNIGHT; Son; ; 2; ; Sussex, Brighton;
George CORK; Boarder; S; 19; Grocers Porter; Sussex, Brighton;

In 1901, Maria can be found in Lewes (RG13/917; Folio: 36; Page: 24)
Walter George is in Brighton (RG13/937; Folio: 42; Page: 36)

Interestingly, one of Walter George’s daughters, Violet D. CORK marries George A. TOWNER in 1918.

I can find a marriage in 1896 in Brighton for Sarah Ann CORK to John BIDWELL. Are you sure she married Henry KNIGHT?

Still can’t find Sarah or Thomas in 1891/1901

Hope this helps,
Greg

[Sheila1]

Hello Greg,thanks for your time.
Well l have THOMAS WILLIAM CORK'S marriaage certificate in front of me and it states that on 29th Nov.1905.THOMAS WILLIAM CORK married EMILY NAOMI MITCHELLat the register office.Brighton.He was a CAB DRIVER and she was a DOMESTIC SERVANT. fathers were WALTER GEORGE CORK (Deceased) and WILLIAM MITCHELL.
The witnesses were A.G.GOLL and SARAH ANN KNIGHT,
Sarah at some time around this time married Henry Knight.
YES i agree that Frederick Place is somehow relevant.
Poor dad he was only seven when his Mum died,and knew nothing of his grandparents.
Regards Sheila

[Sheila1]

Greg this young Walter George Cork(Grandads Brother?) Was living in Shirley Street Hove. and l have been in contact with a Violet in Canada claiming her dad was Walter george cork,the mariage must of broken up.because she knew nothing of her fathers family.ecept.Walter George Cork (Milk Camie)Apparentlty he is on the War Memorial in Brightin Old Steine.
Regards Sheila

[Sheila1]

This could have been Maria Cork?

[SUSSEXDER]

Greg this young Walter George Cork(Grandads Brother?) Was living in Shirley Street Hove. and l have been in contact with a Violet in Canada claiming her dad was Walter george cork,the mariage must of broken up.because she knew nothing of her fathers family.ecept.Walter George Cork (Milk Camie)Apparentlty he is on the War Memorial in Brightin Old Steine.
Regards Sheila

Sheila , I have a theory.:confused:
I found a BIRTH of GEORGE THOMAS CORK: SEPT 1847, NEWINGTON, County of SURREY. In Free BMD.
My theory is :he came to Brighton, met and Married SARAH ANN TOWNER. UP in LEWISHAM RD, SURREY.1867. Had MARIA abt 1868-69.
Then they came back to BRIGHTON.

They had WALTER GEORGE CORK: 13th JUNE 1871. (Where was he)??
For some reason he was not on the 1871 CENSUS.!!!
But Maria CORK was. BORN abt 1868-69.?? age 3yrs on Census.

I think the marriage broke up During the time 1871-1881 when she may have gone with another man, I think GEORGE THOMAS Kept his Son WALTER and MARIA. And SARAH ANN kept THOMAS WILLIAM CORK.

I think WALTER and THOMAS are HALF BROTHERS. Which I think you may already know.
Best Wishes.:)
SUSSEXDER.

[Alan Welsford]

They had WALTER GEORGE CORK: 13th JUNE 1871. (Where was he)??
For some reason he was not on the 1871 CENSUS.!!!

SUSSEXDER.
Hi SUSSEXDER,

The 1871 census was taken on April 2nd 1871

So someone borm in June will definitely not be in it.

(Well I suppose if the mother is recorded it must include them, in a kind of way ;))

Best wishes,

Alan

If it's useful...

All the 1851 through 1901 censuses were taken either end of March or within the first week of April.

The exception one was 1841, being June 6th

(Yes, before I get ticked off again I do know there were censuses 1801 to 1831 - it's just that they don't tend to be greatly used by most researchers).

[SUSSEXDER]

Hi SUSSEXDER,

The 1871 census was taken on April 2nd 1871

So someone borm in June will definitely not be in it.

(Well I suppose if the mother is recorded it must include them, in a kind of way ;))

Best wishes,

Alan

If it's useful...

All the 1851 through 1901 censuses were taken either end of March or within the first week of April.

The exception one was 1841, being June 6th

(Yes, before I get ticked off again I do know there were censuses 1801 to 1831 - it's just that they don't tend to be greatly used by most researchers).
Thanks Alan for useful info. And Possible reason why WALTER GEORGE CORK, might not have been entered on the 1871 Census.
SUSSEXDER.

[SUSSEXDER]

Trying to find THOMAS WILLAM CORK, For above Posting .
Thomas William CORK BRIGHTON WORKHOUSE
BORN 1881.(Mother SARAH ANN CORK.)trying to find him through the CENSUS. NO LUCK YET. We have a Marriage in 1905.But NOTHING BEFORE )ONLY 1881.The year he was Born.
Can ANYONE |help| PLEASE. Thank you.|bowdown|
SUSSEXDER.

[SUSSEXDER]

I have just Noted that WALTER GEORGE CORK BORN 13/6/1871 was not registered BORN untill two months after he,s Birth. Probably another reason he is not in the 1871 CENSUS. Would that be a correct assumption ALAN .
I have also found,( I believe ) to be the BIRTH of MARIA SARAH CORK (as mentioned above in GREGS POSTING 1871 CENSUS REFERRAL to SHEILA 1 )
MARIA SARAH CORK/ LEWISHAM 1d 956. I have also found GEORGE THOMAS CORK (Walters and MARIAS FATHER) in the 1861 CENSUS. BORN SURREY.
(Hope that is of some help,)So I think we can all assume that GREG had the correct Family.
Walter is there but the Census missed him, as he was not Registered till as quoted above,two months after Birth.
I have not been able to trace the where abouts of THOMAS WILLIAM CORK through the Census . But I am still trying.
And I have not been able to trace WALTER GEORGE CORKs DEATH at all, in FreeCEN.
Has anyone the means to help us please.
SUSSEXDER.

[SUSSEXDER]

Sheila, was Thomas William Cork Baptised ??
SUSSEXDER.

[Alan Welsford]

I have just Noted that WALTER GEORGE CORK BORN 13/6/1871 was not registered BORN untill two months after he,s Birth. Probably another reason he is not in the 1871 CENSUS. Would that be a correct assumption ALAN

It has nothing at all to do with registration of the birth - they are two totally unrelated processes.

The reason he was not recorded in the 1871 census is that he was not yet born.

For exactly the same reason, I don't appear in the 1871 census either, nor, I suspect, do you !

Best wishes,

Alan

[SUSSEXDER]

It has nothing at all to do with registration of the birth - they are two totally unrelated processes.

The reason he was not recorded in the 1871 census is that he was not yet born.

For exactly the same reason, I don't appear in the 1871 census either, nor, I suspect, do you !

Best wishes,

Alan
Alan, I apologise yet again for not understanding and misreading your comments above.
SUSSEXDER.

[Alan Welsford]

Don't apologise!

I often fail to explain things well, I know!

Best regards,

Alan

[Sheila1]

Hi folks, Thank you so much for trying to help.
As regards to Young Walter George CORK. he was born 30th June 1971.54.Elder Street ,Brighton.Father George Thomas CORK,Mother Sarah Ann CORK(formerly TOWNER)
In 1881 l believe he was in the Industrial School at WOODINGDEAN,BRIGHTON. Known as Warren Farm. but under the name of George Walter CORK/E?.
Later on 1891, l am sure he was the lodger at Frederick Place ,with sister Maria, again as George Walter CORK.19.
As time goes by in 1911 when he was a a widower(Dont know his first wife) he marred Louisa Laker,Both of Shirley Street Hove.
Unfortunatly Young Walter George CORK lost his life in 1916,of the Royal Sussex Regiment,at the Somme.and is recorded at the Stiene Memorial.

In all this research l still cant pin point my Grandad Thomas William Cork,1881, missing years from 1881 to 1901.Unless he went under the name of William Thomas Cork. There was a Staff-Sgt.W.T.CORK. of R A P C mentioned in War Dispatches in 1917. Could this hve been him?
Regards
Sheila 1

[greg_ball]

Hi Sheila,

This is quite a long post, but here goes…

I have managed to find Thomas William CORK on the 1901 census living with his mum and Henry KNIGHT. I cannot find a marriage for Henry and Sarah, and so would suggest that they weren’t actually married, but living together, claiming to be man and wife.

Here is the 1901 census record:
RG13/924; Folio: 132; Page: 39;
43 Cobden Road,
Henry W. KNIGHT; Head; 57; Shoemaker (Worker at home); Sussex, Brighton;
Sarah A. KNIGHT; Wife; 52; ; Sussex, Brighton;
William T. CORK; Boarder; 20; Cab Driver (Worker); Sussex, Brighton;

This means that we now have Thomas and Sarah on both the 1881 and 1901 census.

Based on the evidence so far, here is my interpretation:

George Thomas CORK (b1847) married Sarah Ann KNIGHT (b1848) in Lewisham in 1867.

They had at least 2 children together:
Maria Sarah CORK (1868) m. Frederick William KNIGHT in 1885
Walter George CORK (1871) m. Emily Rose JUPP in 1892

At some point after Walter’s birth, George has either died or left his wife. I think it is more likely he has just left, as I cannot find a death record, and if he had died, Sarah would have married Henry KNIGHT as opposed to just living with him (I have something very similar in my family)

Once George was gone, Sarah went to live with her parents before having an illegitimate child with another man, who was born in the workhouse:
Thomas William CORK (1881) m. Emily Naomi MITCHELL in 1905

The Walter George CORK who died in the war was the son of Walter George and Emily Rose CORK, based on the information on the CWGC site, you might have been getting him confused with his dad. To clarify things with regards to Walter George…

Walter George CORK (b1871) and Emily Rose JUPP had the following children:
1. Rosina Maria CORK (1893)
2. Lilian May CORK (1895) m. William C. BURDEN
3. Walter George CORK (1896-1916)
4. Daisy Violet CORK (1898) m. George A. TOWNER
(and I would assume these others, based on the fact there appears to be only 1 CORK family having children in the area at the time)
5. Henry William CORK (1900-1900)
6. Sydney William CORK (1901)
7. Arthur Albert CORK (1903)
8. Emily Rose CORK (1906)

Walter’s wife, Emily Rose CORK died in 1909 aged 38.
He then married Louisa Jane LAKER and had at least three more children:
9. John L. CORK (1912)
10. Harold F. CORK (1915)
11. Margaret L. CORK (1917)

The two things I think that need to be sorted at the moment:
1. Where are Thomas and Sarah in 1891?
2. Who is the Sarah Ann CORK who married John BIDWELL in 1896 in Brighton?

I will keep looking when I get a few moments…
Greg

[SUSSEXDER]

GOSH GREG, Fantastic work.|jumphappy. Sheila is going to be really pleased
with the info , you have so kindly found. And so am I.
Thank you so much.|hug|
SUSSEXDER.

[Sheila1]

Greg,Thank you kindly,you have managed to put in order a lot l had discovered ,but did not make sense to me. I have a feeling for 1891,that Thomas, (but under the name of William Cork)Right age, was staying as a cousin in South Huish.Devon.Reg.District.Kingsbridge.Sub.Reg.Distr ict.West Alvington. with.Mary T Adams and Family.I do know that when Thomas's eldest daughter (Ruby Amelia Cork)was born 17th Dec.1907.He put his name as William Cork.(Cab Driver)18.Grant Street.Brighton
Many Many Thanks.Sheila1

[blackwoodbunch]

Hello
My name is Stacey and Walter George Cork is my 2 great grandfather, I am related to his Daughter Lilian May Cork who married William C Burden.
I was really struggling to find my family then i came across this web site and found that you had already found them for me so i just wanted to say a really big thank-you to all involved with this subject.
Thank-you
Stacey

[Sheila1]

Hello Folks,
I have just learn't from my eldest cousin,that the CORK family came over to England after the Potato Famine, apparently they came from Balymena.
Perhaps Walter George CORK came with them?
Is there any way l can check out the people that came over at this time?
There is a link to a Elvey CORK in Brighton.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thank You.
Sheila1

[blackwoodbunch]

Hello
My name is Stacey and i am related to Walter George Cork.
My mum who is Walter's great granddaughter also thinks that the Cork's come from Ireland, but i can find no proof as of yet if you find anything could you let me know.
Many Thanks
Stacey

[Sheila1]

Hello Stacey,nice to hear from you.Confusing lot our ancestors.
If l here anything to confirm our link with Balymena,l will let you know.
I feel sure we are linked to Elvey Cork,but as yet l can find no proof.
Best Wishes
Sheil1