robert [Bob]Jude

[Gerda]

can someone give me an idea as to how else JUDE could be spelt,I am still looking for my little prisoner and thought maybe the spelling of his name could be different ,just trying to stop my head from banging on the brick wall .Many thanks Gerda [australia]
P.S.This man[Robert Newman Jude 1844 CAM has been hiding from me for a long time.since being in Pentonville prison in 1871 I cannot find him anywhere,neither dead or alive .any ideas.Gerda.

[Mutley]

Prisoners were often recorded only by their initials, have you tried just R.J.

[Gerda]

Have found out Robert Newman Jude 1844 was ,registered as Bob not Robert and he lived till he was 90 years old .died 1934.still trying to find out the bits in thew middle.Regatds Gerda[aust]

[Sandyhall]

Hi

Have you found him in the 1851 Census ??

Sandy

[Jack Richards]

Hi Gerda

I suspect, you are not telling us all you know about this man, hence it can be difficult for us to help you. Also, it is difficult for you being in Australia.

You have been asked about the 1851 census, he should be thereon somewhere - you are suggesting he was born 1844, please can you tell us where, if you know?

Mutley has stated quite correctly that prisoners were often, on the census, shown as initials - my research into a particular person in Portland Convict Prison in 1861, is that all the convicts therein had their surname initial first followed by the initial of their first name.

If you have him in Pentonville prison in 1871, I'm assuming this info. is from the census, then most certainly, his prison record will tell you more about him.
The records for that prison are at TNA and will almost certainly record his movements "to" and "from" that prison. I suspect that Pentonville will not have been his first prison and not his last.

It may not be helpful to you at this stage to offer more suggestions from me, though I am sure many other friends on this forum will post helpful hints.

Let's see what transpires.

Regards Jack

[Sandyhall]

Jack

The reason for asking if Gerda has 1851 census was that I didn't want to post info if she already had it.

I have found a Bob Jude on the Census for 1851 with his parents Jonathan and Adah if its the right family and also 1871 in Pentonville Prison. There is a birth entry for Bob Newman Jude March qtr 1844 Royston, Cambridge Vol 6, Page no 609. Thats all I could find out about him although have found the others in the family on the 1851,61,71,81,91 Census.

Sandy

[Jack Richards]

Hi Gerda

Since my last posting, I've had a look at the 1871 census to which you refer. You will be aware of the info. therein, that is to say Bob Newman Jude, Married, Born Barrington, Cambridgeshire, a Farm Labourer. (I lost my note - think it said 26 years). Pentonville prison.

I could not see him on the 1881 census, but I did see a Joseph Jude and his wife Elizabeth and 2 children - he was an Ag. Lab. born Barrington, Cambs. aged 30 years living at the White Horse, Chatteris. RG11. piece 1688. folio 102, page 12. You will be aware of this family - perhaps they are related.

Hope this helps.

Regards Jack

[uksearch]

There seems to be no consistency about whether prioners names were recorded on the various Census returns. It appears it depended on the individual enumerator. I have extracted all the Lancashire strays who were in Millbank Prison in London from the 1851, 1861 and 1871 Census returns.The 1881 returns are on another site. All full names were recorded. The same can also be said about all the Census returns available from the three local prisons in this area.


UK

[Gerda]

Hi All.This is what I have about my BOB Newman Jude b.11.feb 1844 Barrington CAM.married to Eliza Rule 14 June 1862 she was born 1 Jan 1844 Great Eversden ,they had 2 children William Newman Jude 1863 [cant find anything about him after 1881 census ,he was living with a uncle Richard Rule]and Sarah Newman Jude 1864 [came to Australia in 1883 ,she is my husbands gggrandmother].these 2 children are in a workhouse in 1871 [census]as there father is in Pentonville prison ,there mother is working for Henry Savage -Innkeeper of the Black Swan 7Guildhall St Barrington ?
Can't find anything more about Mother Eliza,Bob died 1934[reference Camdex 331/lin/3a/325.
I do have parents of both Bob and Eliza +siblings.
Regards Gerda [Aust]

[Jack Richards]

Hi Gerda

This is what we have - still not sure what you have - your email to us lacks much info.

Sandy has found Bob (Newman) Jude on the 1851 census, you have not mentioned you knew of this fact. She cannot find him in 1861, neither can I, albeit she finds his family each census incl. 1891.

Have you searched the 1901 census, if so, what is the result, please?

What we do have is the 1871 census and he is in Pentonville Prison. This is fact and you need to work on this fact. To be in this prison, he has committed an offence that merits being in a (convict) prison for more than say a month or more (i.e.gaol). His Pentonville prison record will survive and will most likely be found at TNA, Kew - I suggest you look at HO.24 that covers Millbank, Parkhurst and Pentonville prisons. Also records of prisoners can be found in PCOM/2/** - the ** may be a trawling job - I'm sure you can search via the TNA web site for the Ref. numbers but not the specific records.

Staying with the fact he is in Pentonville prison, he has to be convicted somewhere as yet unknown on a date as yet unknown. As a start, you must start with Cambridgeshire and I am sure (I have not checked) their County Record Office, will have copies of the Quarter Sessions records. Again it will be a trawling job. You are in Australia so you cannot do this yourself, but you can try emails to the said County Record Office.

Of course, he could be "inside" for a more serious offence, that would have involved the Assize Court. Likewise, the County Record Office, may have brief references, and TNA will have details under their references ASSI 94 - this ends 1850 for indictments, from 1851 it is ASSI 95. These AASI references are for Cambridgeshire

Have you considered that he was Transported? I checked Western Australia (Fremantly prison) and Tasmania for you but could not find him. You can do that research at home.

At present it seems a huge obstacle, but stay with the Pentonville Prison 1871 angle and what I have suggested above and you will get a break through.

Hope this helps.

Jack

[Mutley]

Hi Gerda,
I have a similar problem with one of mine in London and was able to find some information regarding his crime in The Times Online, unfortunately we cannot, any longer, access that from abroad.

Crimes tried at the Old Bailey are only on line (I think) until 1834.

However, I would imagine that his crime would be reported in some newspaper. If he served in Pentonville in 1871 we could be talking about a crime committed in the London area?

Maybe it is worth starting a new thread asking if anyone has access to The Times Online giving his full name and say 1860 - 1871. You can always link to this thread to help them out as Jack has given some very good ideas.

[Gerda]

HI all.Bob 1844 did not go to Aust ,as far as I know ,have checked as many records as can be found ,will look again .as I said before his son William 1863 I cannot find either ,his daughter Sarah 1864 came to Aust 1883.Now back to BOB 1844 .I don,t know how to get into the records ,I know the number is Ho24/16-19 Pcom 2/61-83,but don,t know what to do from that point,if someone can help me greatly appreciated
have not been into 1901 census.Bob died 1934 CAM.don,t know if he remarried etc.
Regards Gerda.[aust]

[Sandyhall]

Have you got a birth cert. for Eliza rule who is her Mother and Father ?
Sandy

[Gerda]

Sandy.Eliza Rule.b.1844 Great Eversden ,parents are Richard RULe b.abt 1810 Died 1848 married 31 dec 1833 to Lydia Nicholls born 8 april 1810 died 1870 ,Lydia 's parents Thomas Nicholls 1774 and Elizabeth Whitby 1774-1858.
Richards parents,William Rule b.? died 1778 Haslington CAM and Elizabeth Rutter
regards gerda

[Gerda]

hi Jack.re my relative BoB Newman Jude ,Have just recieved some info about his crime This came from the Cambridgeshire archives.convictions were filed for Bob Newman Jude for stealing 12 turkeys from Thomas Holder and 8 turkeys from Henry Jonson on 7th June in Meldreth,20 turkeys from Alfred Clear in Shepreth on 16th June and 15 turkeys from Emma Chapman on 17th 1865 in Haslingfield.He was sentenced for 6months and 1 weeks imprisonment ,but it is not specified en which prison .So now I imagine that he must have kept commiting crimes to end up in Pentonville Thought I would keep all informed on my relative Regards Gerda[aust]

[Jack Richards]

Hi Gerda and friends

Like you I am trying to help Gerda with her enquiries. With this in mind, I am preparing a response setting out all the evidence in date order so we can the story so far.

Meanwhile, Gerda please can you answer some of the questions we have raised with you, so we can update ourselves and hopefully advise you accordingly.

We appreciate you are in Australia and do not have ready access to County Record Offices etc. but I/we can advise you to write here and there.

You will have access to the 1901 census, it will most likely be a "pay job" but have you searched it, as one of us suggested?

Also, to help us, try to help you, please can you post your JUDE queries on this thread - I know previous postings were old ones?

Kindest regards

Jack

[Gerda]

thank you for your assistance.after the 1871 sensus I cannot find anything about Bob 1844 until his death 1934 [reference Camdex 331/lin/3a/325]i might just add ,that Bob was actual registered as Bob not Robert as first thought.regards Gerda

[Jack Richards]

Hi Gerda
Ref. Bob Jude etc.

Please, please I/we are trying to help you resolve your Jude research.

You mention his death and some reference. Gerda, this tells us absolutely nothing.

Please answer these questions for me, so I can advise on Electoral Rolls.

Do you have posession of a copy death certificate issued by a local Superintendent Registrar in the Cambridgeshire area. Yes or No.

Do you have posession of a copy death certificate issued by the General Registry Office at Southport, England? Yes or No.

Can you provide me/us with ALL details of his death certificate ie. place of death, date of death, person reporting etc.? Yes or No.

I am still waiting to post a reply, still trying to help you, but it is frustrating you not telling me/us details. The reference letters/numbers you provide are of little use, it is facts I/we want.

Kindest regards

Jack

[Gerda]

sorry if you are confused with my answers,but owing to the fact that it is only a hobby ,and am on a pension ,mno i do not have the answers to those questions.most of my info comes from either relatives or friends who are trying to help.Regards Gerda [aust]