Grahams of Maryport, Cumberland

[Dennis Lord]

Hi everybody,
Glad I came across this website!
I am tracing my family on my maternal side and boy did my family pick a doozer!
Many Grahams and many Thomas'.
I am in Vancouver, BC, Canada presently but have lived in various areas of this country.
Right now, I am waiting for sunshine, green grass, and the return of the spring birds singing.

I am tracing my Graham roots. I have a couple of certificates from GRO that state my ggrandfather was born in Maryport on October 31st, 1859 to Thomas and Eleanor (nee Rogan) Graham.
I have recieved a marriage certificate of Thomas and Eleanor Rogan for May 20th, 1857.
Thomas' father is named George (husbandman) and Eleanors' father is Daniel Rogan (blacksmith).
From what I can gather, they had six children- Margaret (b1857?), Thomas(b1859),Annie (b1864), Mary Jane (b1865), Charles (b1871), and George (b1876).
There is no mention of their wives' names (mothers to Thomas and Eleanor).
The death certificate made out in Ontario, Canada states that my ggrandfather Thomas' mother came from Ireland. Now whether she was born in Ireland or her parents were born in Ireland, I do not know.
My ggrandfather was married twice. His first wife we have no name but, they had five children -George (b1878?), Thomas G. (b April 19th, 1884), Ellen (b1885?), Robert (b June 6th, 1886), Evelyne (b May 13th, 1891).
Thomas' second wife is Alice Jane (nee Graham) Graham. We cannot seem to trace her at all. On census', the enumerator writes that she is born in Scotland or that she is scottish.
On Alice Jane Graham s' death certificate, my great uncle wrote that her fathers' name is Frank. We do not know if this is true. He mentions he does not know Alice Janes' mothers' name. It is written on the death certificate that she was born in Newcastle upon Tyne. Some parts of my family believe she is born in Ecclefechan, Scotland.
I have no marriage dates for my ggrandfathers' first or second marriage, so it is hard to know where her roots are. My family suggests that she might have had a sister names Barbara.
I have come across a Alice Jane Graham with parents William and Theresa/Thirza on the internet. My grandmothers' name is Thirza, but in essence, I cannot connect any Alice Jane to any family without a marriage and/or birth certificate.

I hope this was not too longwinded|snore|;)
Thanks everybody,
Dennis

[Dennis Lord]

Hello everybody,
I had forgot to mention that on the 1857 marriage certificate of THOMAS GRAHAM and ELEANOR nee ROGAN, their age was listed as 30 and 25 respectively.
That tells me that their fathers and mothers (GEORGE GRAHAM and DANIEL ROGAN) would have to be anywhere from 20-30yrs old. So George and Daniel would have been born around 1810.
THOMAS was a resident of CROSBY and ELEANOR was a resident on BOTHEL at the time of their marriage.

Dennis

[Dennis Lord]

Hi Pam (or anyone),
I need help.
Freebmd does not give complete information as to the parents of their own children. They will list only one parent. The same for marriages, the same for deaths/burials, they will not say who the deceased was married to.
I do not know how record keepers thought back then, civil or parish, but I am confused as to how to proceed.
The british pound is valued twice as much as the canadian dollar.
I have gone to LDS and searched their intenet services. I have ordered one microfilm of bishops transcripts and found that they are of Cumberland, but for Carlisle area, not Maryport.
I started to go thru their IGI (international genealogy index) and did not find my Thomas or Maryport even.
I am waiting for another microfilm to come in. They did not want me to order a microfilm of bishops transcripts for Maryport right now (it takes a month to be delivered).
Our ancestry.ca in our public libraries have been offline for three weeks and counting.
I know all this is nothing new to you guys, so I am asking for help, direction, advice, answers. I can appreciate this search and other surnames I will be searching can be expensive, but I am limited due to the currency exchange.
Thanks,
Dennis

[suedent]

Hi Dennis
This may well be your family:

1861 Census
Thomas Graham Head 48 Coal Miner Cumberland Eaglesfield
Eleanor Graham 30 Cumberland Hayton
Margaret Graham 3 Scholar Cumberland Allerby
Thomas Graham 1 Cumberland Allerby
William Graham Boarder 22 Woolen Spinner Cumberland Eaglesfield
Allerby, Cumberland
RG9/3940 ED 6 Folio: 80; Page: 26 Sched 35

1871 Census
Thomas Graham Head M 68 Labourer Cumberland Eagelfields
Elenor Graham Wife M 39 Cumberland Whitehaven
Margaret Graham 13 Scholar Cumberland Allerby
Thomas Graham 11 Scholar Cumberland Allerby
Annie Graham 7 Scholar Cumberland Allerby
Mary Jane Graham 4 Scholar Cumberland Allerby
Infant Graham 1 wk Cumberland Allerby
Allerby, Cumberland
RG10/5245 ED 6 Folio 6 Page 6 Sched 23

This is possibly your Thomas in 1881 & 1891

Thomas Graham Head M 21 Coal Miner Cumberland Hayton
Sarah Graham Wife M 21 Cumberland Isel
John G. Graham Son 2 Cumberland Hayton
Aspatria, Cumberland
RG11/5166 ED 3a Folio 63 Page 47 Sched 240

Thomas Graham Head M 31 Coal Miner Cumberland Aspatria
Sarah Graham Wife M 31 Cumberland Isle
John George Graham Son 12 Scholar Cumberland Isle
Ellenor Wilson Graham Dau 8 Scholar Durham Winlaton
Thomas Graham Son 6 Scholar Durham Winlaton
Robert Graham Son 4 Durham Winlaton
Sarah Jane Graham Dau 2 Durham Winlaton
132 Long Row, Killingworth Colliery, Longbenton, Northumberland
RG12/4233 ED 14 Folio 32 Page 20 Sched 140

[suedent]

This looks like Eleanor Rogan & her family are living seperately in 1851, it also looks like she may well have been born in Ireland.

Daniel Rogin Head M 46 Agricultural Labourer Ireland
Ann Rogin Wife M 41 Ireland
Charles Rogin Son U 13 Ireland
Thos Rogin Son 11 Ireland
James Rogin Son 9 Ireland
Mary Rogin Dau 7 Whitehaven, Cumberland
Barrney Rogin Son 5 Hayton, Cumberland
Elizabeth Rogin Dau 4 Hayton, Cumberland
David Rogin Son 1 Hayton, Cumberland
Mary Jane Rogin Dau 10 Mo Hayton, Cumberland
Arthur McGrave Lodger U 26 Agricultural Labourer Ireland
Hayton and Mealo, Cumberland
HO107/2433 ED 9 Folio 192 Page 18 Sched 66

John Temple Head M 58 Butcher/Farmer Westnewton Cumberland
Jane Temple Wife M 47 Hayton Cumberland
Nancy Temple Dau 27 Dressmaker Hayton Cumberland
John Temple Son 25 Butcher Hayton Cumberland
Mary Temple Dau 23 General Assistant Hayton Cumberland
William Temple Son 21 Assistant Hayton Cumberland
Richard Temple Son 16 Scholar Hayton Cumberland
Jane Temple Dau 10 Scholar Hayton Cumberland
Elizabeth Temple Dau 5 Scholar Hayton Cumberland
Ellen Rogan Serv U 20 House Servant Ireland
Allonby and West Newton, Cumberland
HO107/2433 ED 8 Folio 150 Page 12 Sched 2

[suedent]

This looks like it could be your Thomas in 1841 & 1851

Geo Graham 45 Teacher Cumberland
Thos Graham 25 Cumberland
Brigham, Cumberland
HO107/155 Book 9 ED 1 Folio 13 Page 18

William Cheals Head M 32 Lab Lincolnshire West Keal
Elizabeth Cheals Wife M 30 Lincolnshire Lankton
Thomas Graham Lodger U 36 Lab Cumberland Aspatria
John Thompson Lodger U 25 Lab Scotland Dunce
South Barmston, Barmston, Durham
HO107/2394 ED 9a Folio 668 Page 4 Sched 14

Coincidentally Mr & Mrs Cheals later moved to Sunderland & fostered Mary Ann Wilson, who is my husband's great-grandmother.

[Dennis Lord]

Thanks Sue,
That was fast! I believe we have a 12hr difference in time zones.
On the prementioned marriage certificate of THOMAS and ELEANOR, there was an age difference of five years when they married in 1857 with their fathers present -30 and 25yrs respectively.
I noticed an age difference of 18yrs in the 1861 census and a 29yr difference in the 1871 census.
How do I understand that. Are enumerators guessing ages (by appearance?) or the families deciding for themselves their own ages (to play games on politicians or ?).

This opens up some doors as at least I have marriage mates to these husbands.
Also, after arriving in Canada GEORGE and ELLEN (THOMAS' children from first marriage) emigrated to Australia/New Zealand, but no-one in the family knows when. By 1920 I am told. So now, I have middle names for both, I can try to pursue this avenue as well.
When EVELYNNE was married in Canada, someone wrote JULIA FAIRCHILD as the brides' mother. I have yet to find any FAIRCHILD in any england census or married to any GRAHAM in the freebmd.
I will also try to find out where in Ireland DANIEL and his family came from. I suspect northern Ireland.
I communicated with Cameron Graham of the Graham family website and it seems I am from the MENTIETH line, yet to be confirmed.

Thanks, I hope to learn more from you and anyone who may help me,
Dennis

[suedent]

On the prementioned marriage certificate of THOMAS and ELEANOR, there was an age difference of five years when they married in 1857 with their fathers present -30 and 25yrs respectively.
I noticed an age difference of 18yrs in the 1861 census and a 29yr difference in the 1871 census.
How do I understand that. Are enumerators guessing ages (by appearance?) or the families deciding for themselves their own ages (to play games on politicians or ?).

Some people are more accurate about giving their ages than others. Others, like my gg-grandfather, give a wide range of ages to leave us guessing. It may be that they genuinely don't know how old they are. Birthdays weren't celebrated as they are today so it would have been relatively easy to lose track. I have come across one lady who actually claimed in 1901 to be only a year older than she was in 1891. If it hadn't been for the fact that she had an unusual combination of names & came from a tiny village I might never have found her. In her case it may have been because she was in service & had shaved a few years off her age when applying for the job to make herself more attractive as an employee.

EDIT: I've double-checked the 1871 census & Thomas was in fact 58, not 68. My fault for trying to read census entries late at night!

[Dennis Lord]

Hey Sue,
I am so happy to have some help in this genealogy research! No apologies necessary. It is really hard work and adictive at the same time. To allow my friends to understand, I just say it is like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Parts may look the same and maybe will fit with a little bit of elbow grease, but when you get the true match, it is like heaven!!
|jumphappy

I am presently trying to figure out how to use the trade directory as mentioned on another thread.

I remember now looking at birth and marriage records in Ontario, Canada my ggrandfather always had a multiple of jobs on CP Rail (canadian pacific railways). I was interested to learn that Maryport is a coal mining and rail port.
It seems he did not pick up agriculture when he moved to Canada. I suppose like today, farmers are very dextrous in their work habits.

Dennis

[Dennis Lord]

I came across something very tantilizing and I need your judicious knowledge.
I am almost giddy, I have found something really interesting.
I found rootschat.com and I went to cumberland parish records and found that a George and Elisabeth (Betty) Graham from Hayton had seven children in nine years (two sets of twins). One child is Thomas.
1831 Feb 27th, William and Eleanor
1833 Feb 3rd Jane
1834 # 822 August 17th, Thomas
1836 June 26th Elisabeth
1837 August 27th, John
1839 June 2nd, Joseph
1840 Mary Ann and Margaret.

As mentioned on my first post, when Thomas married Eleanor Rogan in 1857 his marriage certificate said he was 30 (+-). Thomas' father is named George, but no mention of his mother on the marriage certificate. George is mentioned in the parish records as a farmer, and also husbandman, on the marriage certificate George is a husbandman.
I tried earlier to find Maryport on the Trade Directory but was unable to find the surname listings 'A' to 'G', however I did notice that in 1850s' the population was 6,000. So I would think that would narrow down how many different George Graham families there would be.
It sure is tempting to place my bets on this parish as the one that recorded the George and Thomas I am looking for.

I would like to hear your expertise, please, it would help to see if I could do my 'happy dance'!

Also listed in this parish record is other Grahams having children, I wonder if they are brothers or cousins to George the father of Thomas.

Henry and Mary
Thomas and Esther
George and Mary
John and Barbara
James and Isabella
John and Jane
John and Anne.

[Dennis Lord]

I am always forgeting something....:o

Aspartia St. Kentigens Parish Church

[Dennis Lord]

I just looked at a map of Cumberland, and I see that Hayton is east of Carlisle.
I had been looking at the bishops transcripts for Aspatria and had concluded that it was closer to Maryport than it is. I had assumed it was NW of Carlisle, like Aspatria.
Hmmm, How do bishops transcripts bypass Carlisle and the bishops transcripts record births in Hayton, but are logged in St. Kentigens Parish Church in Aspatria. Carlisle would be the closest center for Hayton, not Aspatria. I do not know how the church in Cumberland divided up the county.

I have been tracing my family for a year now, I have many things to understand, especially when I have never lived in the UK.

I would like to recieve some help, if anyone has a moment,
Thanks,
Dennis

[Geoffers]

cumberland parish records and found that a George and Elisabeth (Betty) Graham from Hayton had seven children in nine years (two sets of twins).

Nearly - unless you have viewed the parish register for yourself, then you just have seen that someone has recorded some information which appears to show that they had seven children - it's a useful guide, but not proof. Where two children are baptised at the same time, do not take it as read that they are twins unless the register records them as such.

Don't forget that these are baptisms and baptisms take place afte birth - often sometime after birth.


As mentioned on my first post, when Thomas married Eleanor Rogan in 1857 his marriage certificate said he was 30 (+-). Thomas' father is named George, but no mention of his mother on the marriage certificate.

There was no requirement to record mother's names in marriage certificates. They are only likely to appear if they were witnesses.


So I would think that would narrow down how many different George Graham families there would be. It sure is tempting to place my bets on this parish as the one that recorded the George and Thomas I am looking for.

I'd be inclined to take a census - 1841, and probably 1851 too.

For 1841 - Search on just the surname and where it appears in the county. Plot the results on a map and look for clusters of the name.

For 1851 - Do the same thing, but also do a separate search on GRAHAMs born in Cumberland. Looking spcifically for those born within about 10 years of your chap. Again plot the locations on a map. There are lots of online maps available.

The spread of the surname - whether there are any clusters where it it particularly common, may help to identify parishes for which it would be worth your while getting hold of the registers.

[suedent]

I just looked at a map of Cumberland, and I see that Hayton is east of Carlisle.
I had been looking at the bishops transcripts for Aspatria and had concluded that it was closer to Maryport than it is. I had assumed it was NW of Carlisle, like Aspatria.
Hmmm, How do bishops transcripts bypass Carlisle and the bishops transcripts record births in Hayton, but are logged in St. Kentigens Parish Church in Aspatria. Carlisle would be the closest center for Hayton, not Aspatria. I do not know how the church in Cumberland divided up the county.

I suspect that you have found Hayton by Brampton, there is another Hayton near Aspatria, Hayton with Melay.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/CUL/Aspatria/index.html

[jefgraham]

Hi Dennis
One of my George Graham ancestors was born in Maryport around the time you are asking about. Doesn't sound like the same line but you never know. Here's his info:
George Graham b 1878 in Maryport. His father was George Graham b 1854 in Wigton. This Graham Family lived in Maryport abt 1877-1881. The family came from Wigton, went to Maryport and then onto Newcastle.
Thanks
Jef Graham
CA, USA

[angelcake]

Hello Graham searchers

My Grahams are
Robert Graham c 1790 Cumberland married to Frances - four children born in Harrington Hannah c 1809, Robert c 1809, John 1810 and
Ann 1812

I have no info for Robert and John - can anyone fill in the gaps?

Hannah married Henry Gill 14 Dec 1829 in Loweswater and have the following children Frances 1831, Thomas 1835, Sarah 1839, Mary 1841, Hannah 1843 & Grace 1846. Hannah married Robert Blacklock Scott 29 Oct 1868.

Ann Graham 1812 married John Pritt 11 Dec 1836 in Broughton In Furness, Lancs
They have 10 children one of who is Issac Pritt 9 mar 1851 in High Harrington, Whitehaven.
Issac Pritt mar Jane Howe 1 Sep 1870 - they have Sarah Jane Pritt born Parsonby
Sarah Jane Pritt marries John Leeson 3 dec 1896 in Whitehaven

All in the area you are talking about - any names sound familiar?

Thanks

Angelcake