Parish Registers Not Deposited With Records Office

[Alan Welsford]

I was hoping to study the registers of the small Buckinghamshire Parish of Drayton Beauchamp.

But when I enquired at the county records office in Aylesbury, they have nothing deposited any later than 1812 for Baptisms and Burials, and 1837 for Marriages.

I was told this means the registers after that date will still be in use at the church.

I appreciate it's a small parish, and business may be slack, but how normal is it for a nearly 200 year old register to still be in active use ?

I assume I could only get round this by approaching the church. How receptive are churches in general to people coming and browsing their registers, and what are typical arrangements, please ? (You can tell this would be new ground for me!). I'm guessing at least a donation to church funds, if they agree ?

Alan

[Jan1954]

But when I enquired at the county records office in Aylesbury, they have nothing deposited any later than 1812 for Baptisms and Burials, and 1837 for Marriages.

I was told this means the registers after that date will still be in use at the church.

I appreciate it's a small parish, and business may be slack, but how normal is it for a nearly 200 year old register to still be in active use ?

I have undertaken some research for another forum member and the records deposited at the RO also end in 1812 for this particular parish. However, when I checked the index held in the RO, it supplied a name and address of someone who could be contacted for a look-up. Maybe a toddle up the A41 could prove fruitful. :)

[Peter Goodey]

Alan

Have you asked the record office about the BTs? These are the usual substitutes if the registers aren't available.

[Alan Welsford]

Alan

Have you asked the record office about the BTs? These are the usual substitutes if the registers aren't available.

Basically no, it didn't even cross my mind!

I always think of those as something relating to much older entries.

Is this something that the records office is likely to have for 1813 (or even 1837) onwards, please ?

Alan

[Geoffers]

I was told this means the registers after that date will still be in use at the church. I appreciate it's a small parish, and business may be slack, but how normal is it for a nearly 200 year old register to still be in active use ?

It does happen - surprisingly often. Registers are always being deposited at record offices as they are closed.


I assume I could only get round this by approaching the church. How receptive are churches in general to people coming and browsing their registers, and what are typical arrangements, please ? (You can tell this would be new ground for me!). I'm guessing at least a donation to church funds, if they agree ?

You have a right to view the registers and there is a fixed scale of charge for doing so. This scale should be displayed in parish churches and from memory can be found on the web.

[Peter Goodey]

For the charges, the phrase to google for is "Table of Parochial Fees". I have a copy on my PC but it's out-of-date.

[Alan Welsford]

For the charges, the phrase to google for is "Table of Parochial Fees". I have a copy on my PC but it's out-of-date.
Thanks Peter, I'd tried a few things and failed, so thanks for the magic string that works in Google.

I've had a quick look, and charges seem to relate to them doing searches for you, and providing copies of entries.

I couldn't immediately see anything about you being allowed access to search yourself.

[EDIT: I'm not sure now, as I've found two different things that seem to contradict each other - either way if the charges I've seen cover gaining access by the hour, it still isn't cheap]

I think I'll investigate the BT option. (Or go and research a different family line!).

Alan

[hughar]

Alan

Have you asked the record office about the BTs? These are the usual substitutes if the registers aren't available.

I understand that after the introduction of civil registration in 1837, copies of marriage entries were no longer sent to the bishop because copies had to be sent to the registrar. Baptisms and burial entries continued to be copied for some time; the date when they ceased varies from parish to parish, with some continuing into the 1850s and 60s.

[Peter Goodey]

I understand that after the introduction of civil registration in 1837, copies of marriage entries were no longer sent to the bishop

This is true but I thought Alan was looking for 1812-1837 records. Post-1837 marriages are covered by civil registration.

Perhaps I read too much (or too little) into the question.

[Alan Welsford]

I understand that after the introduction of civil registration in 1837, copies of marriage entries were no longer sent to the bishop because copies had to be sent to the registrar. Baptisms and burial entries continued to be copied for some time; the date when they ceased varies from parish to parish, with some continuing into the 1850s and 60s.
Yes, I've just tried to read this up.

Mark Herber's "Ancestral Trails" says much the same thing, i.e. many parishes ceasing in 1837, and little chance of anything after mid 19th century.

Still it doesn't hurt to ask, I suppose.

[Mutley]

I'm not sure now, as I've found two different things that seem to contradict each other - either way if the charges I've seen cover gaining access by the hour, it still isn't cheap
Alan

I (and my friend) are looking for the same problem with an Essex parish for 1812 - 1837.

Please can you give me an idea of what's "not cheap"? Thanks

[Geoffers]

Parochial Fees Order 2007

Searching registers of marriages for period before 1 July 1837 (See Note 5) (for up to one hour) - £19
(for each subsequent hour or part of an hour) - £16

Searching registers of baptism or burials (See Note 5) (including the provision of one copy - £19
of any entry therein) (for up to one hour)

Each additional copy of an entry in a register of baptism or burials - £19

Inspection of instrument of apportionment or agreement for exchange of land for tithes
deposited under the Tithe Act 1836 - £9

The search fee relates to a particular search where the approximate date of the baptism, marriage or burial is known. The fee for a more general search of a church register would be negotiable

Furnishing copies of above (for every 72 words) - £9

Published by
Ministry Division
The Archbishops’ Council
Church House, Great Smith Street, London. SW1P 3AZ

[Mutley]

OUCH!!

But then,:cool:
British Airways is far more expensive and I cannot take my own sarnies or bottle of water???

[Ladkyis]

Not where we live they won't

[Alan Welsford]

This is true but I thought Alan was looking for 1812-1837 records. Post-1837 marriages are covered by civil registration.

Perhaps I read too much (or too little) into the question.
Sorry Peter,

I missed this post until now, (I think we probably cross posted).

No, I'm really interested in right through the 19th century, or even beyond, if I can have it, (neighbouring Buckland has filmed marriages up to 1969 - wonderful).

I'm trying to piece together quite a lot of family groups, and who married who, etc, (not helped by the primary surname being Smith).

The GRO indexes don't give me enough, and it would be prohibitively expensive to start going for certificates.

I've made leaps and bounds from the PRs of surrounding parishes, but am constantly troubled that events I can't find very likely took place in Drayton Beauchamp.

I've emailed the Centre for Buckinghamshire Studies to clarify that they definitely don't hold any unfilmed registers, and to see if any BTs are available.

Thanks to all for advice given.

[Alan Welsford]

Well I got a very quick response from the Centre for BUckinghamshire Studies.

They have some Drayton Beauchamp BTs on film apparently, but nothing after 1830, so it doesn't get me that much further than the filmed PRs.

I may try approaching the church, but if the scale of fees is as Geoffers has listed, I think I'll switch my researches to another branch of the family, for a while.

[Geoffers]

I'm trying to piece together quite a lot of family groups, and who married who, etc, (not helped by the primary surname being Smith). The GRO indexes don't give me enough, and it would be prohibitively expensive to start going for certificates.

SMITH may cause problems with this - but - for a one place study, I've combined all the census returns into a spreadsheet and inserted a column for year of event. For births this is the calculated year of birth from the census age; for marriages I've taken the first child born and entered the year of marriage as before that year of birth - e.g. <1841.

I've then extracted all the bmds from the GRO index and interwoven them into this spreadsheet. By adding filters it is fairly simple to analyse the entries and make an assessment as to which census entry refers to which GRO entry. Deaths can be cross referred to cancel out some entries.

It is time consuing and depends on the numbers of family groups you are following, but it is possible to pin down anomalous entries in the GRO index and of course doesn't give you full details of events - but it is cheaper than researching non-deposited registers or buying lots of certificates.

[Alan Welsford]

I agree with all you say, and have been doing broadly the same, albeit not yet resorting to spreadsheets very much.

Unfortunately some of this lot are quite flexible about age, (not unusual, I know), but will also randomly name any small hamlet within each of the 3 or 4 parishes involved as their birth place. (The only rules seems to be don't say in one census what you did in the last :confused:)

I've been remarkably successful on a low-cost approach, but am now getting to the stage where with, (for example), 3 or 4 George SMITHs, all within 3 years in age of each other, I really can't be confident about exactly who married who.

Parish register entries for marriages have supplied, of course, not just fathers names, but also (more often than not) ages of groom and bride, plus occupations, and whether they are out of parish. Fortunately the most significant parishes are filmed for the dates I'm looking at.

But I've just about exhausted the parish registers that are available without paying, I think.

Anyway for the record, although I can't currently get back beyond Henry SMITH and Fanny HUMPHREY, who married in Buckland Bucks in 1802, I've still found quite a few direct descendants of theirs. In fact I reckon I've now got a tree of about 270 people below them, (that includes the wives, of around 50 marriages).

I've been very surprised, (well amazed really!), that all but around 10% of SMITHs in that immediate area can actually be traced back to that one couple. Now if I could only work out where THEY came from......

[Geoffers]

Although only transcripts, Buckinghamshire FHS (http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1)seem to sell what you want on CD and fiches at very reasonable prices. A lot cheaper than other options that have been considered in this thread so far......just a thought.

[Alan Welsford]

Although only transcripts, Buckinghamshire FHS (http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1)seem to sell what you want on CD and fiches at very reasonable prices. A lot cheaper than other options that have been considered in this thread so far......just a thought.
I agree.

Their transcription onto CD are excellent, and agree well with stuff I've taken from microfilm.

I have them for the main parishes of interest, but of course only where they are available.

But all that is available for my problem parish (Drayton Beauchamp) is a fiche for marriages (only), up until 1837, and I've already searched that on film at the records office.

I guess they can't transcribe registers either, if they are still those in use at the church.

But yes, for anyone researching Bucks, if your parishes are ones the Bucks FHS have transcribed, and they are the same standard as I have found, then they are truly excellent value. I can't recommend them enough.

[Geoffers]

My mistake - I missed the reference to Drayotn and just saw the Buckland bit - my apologies.