I've hit a Brickwall - CLAPP

[lmabey]

Hi

I am a complete Newbie to this so please bear with me if I am not going about this the right way . . .

I am trying to trace my Grandfather on my father's side and I am havin some problems tracing him.

So far, I know that his name was Frank Clapp, also known as Alfie Clapp.

I believe that he lived in London during the 1930's and 1940's and that he was from a large London family. I do not have a year of birth or year of death, but I am presuming that he was between 20-30 years old in 1946. However, I know that he was sent to Prison in London but I have no idea which Prison. I know that he went to prison after 1946 and I believe that he died in prison.

Has anybody else come up against a brickwall such as this? I am completely at a loss and I am really keen to keep trying to track this information down.

Thanks in advance for any help that you can give me

Kind Regards

Louisa|banghead|

[Peter Goodey]

Do you have your parent's marriage certificate and your father's birth certificate?

They will both contain valuable information to help you to track down your grandfather.

If you're not sure how to interpret the information on the certificates or if you don't know how to get hold of certificates, please shout.

[Sue Mackay]

What is the significance of 1946? Is this the year your father was born? Do you have his birth certificate? This should give you the full names of both parents, and you can then try to track down Frank/Alfie's marriage and eventually his birth. Indeed if you know the maiden name of your grandmother we can possibly help you with this.

As to which prison, if it was in London the following site should help you narrow the field
http://www.affect.org.uk/information/prisons/london_prisons.htm

[lmabey]

Hi Peter & Sue

Many thanks for both coming back to me.

My paternal grandmother (maiden name Jackson) was married to a Clifford Leak, he was a fireman and was killed during the WWII raids on London in, I believe, 1942.

My father was born in 1946 and has always been unsure of the true identity of his father and when we ordered his birth certificate it stated Clifford Leak as his father. However, we knew that the dates didn't of course match up and so I met with my father's elderly aunts last year and I now understand that Frank Clapp (AKA Alfie Clapp) was actually my father's father.

I have contacted the prison service but without a date of death or date of birth I am unable to get any further.

I will check out the link that you gave me Sue and I'll go from there.

Any other pointers you could give me would be very much appreciated!

Many thanks for you kind help

Louisa

[bumblebee]

There is a report of an 'Alfred Clapp' (but he is aged 47) of Kennington, sentenced at Lewes, Sussex, to 7 years penal servitute for a raid on the Greenwich Leather Cloth Factory. Sentenced July 1947.

Don't know if this is worth considering.

Bumblebee

[lmabey]

There is a report of an 'Alfred Clapp' (but he is aged 47) of Kennington, sentenced at Lewes, Sussex, to 7 years penal servitute for a raid on the Greenwich Leather Cloth Factory. Sentenced July 1947.

Don't know if this is worth considering.

Hi BumbleBee

This is definitely worth considering!

That looks very much like a strong possibility. Can you let me know how you found the information so that I can track it down and then go from there?

Your help is very much appreciated.

Kind Regards

Louisa

[harfin]

I guess Bumblebee is referring to a case that was reported in a major British newspaper on 25th July 1947.

In that report, Alfred Clapp 47, Motor Driver of Austral Street, Kennington was convicted along with several others of breaking & entering the factory in St Mary Cray, Kent. The Judge complimented the police on "ridding the country for the time being of a very dangerous gang"!

Good luck

Alan

[Peter Goodey]

My paternal grandmother (maiden name Jackson) was married to a Clifford Leak, he was a fireman and was killed during the WWII raids on London in, I believe, 1942.


Was that Clifford Moffatt LEAK who died 16 Nov 1940 at the age of 24?

[Geoffers]

I wonder if Alfie was familair with courts for other reasons? - see this link (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-3168206&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CCLAPP&accessmethod=0&Summary=True)

[bumblebee]

Regarding Geoffers post above - there is a mention in the same publication as before dated June 8th 1937, (Pitts v Pitts v Clapp Decree made absolute)

Bumblebee

[lmabey]

I guess Bumblebee is referring to a case that was reported in a major British newspaper on 25th July 1947.

In that report, Alfred Clapp 47, Motor Driver of Austral Street, Kennington was convicted along with several others of breaking & entering the factory in St Mary Cray, Kent. The Judge complimented the police on "ridding the country for the time being of a very dangerous gang"!

Good luck

Alan

Hi All

Well this is definitely my Alfred Clapp. I knew that this was an address of his around this time and so I am delighted that you have found him!

Does anybody know hoe I would find a date of death from the information I now have?

I will keep you posted (if you all don't mind) on how I get on.

Many Thanks

Louisa

[Geoffers]

Does anybody know hoe I would find a date of death from the information I now have?

It's a case of browsing the GRO index of deaths, quarter by quarter.

[Sue Mackay]

Hi All

Does anybody know how I would find a date of death from the information I now have?



Well you know that he was sentenced to seven years in 1947, and your family sources say he died in prison. Fortunately Alfred Clapp is not a terribly common name, so there is a good chance that if you go through the GRO death indexes between 1947 and 1954 for an Alfred Clapp of the right age that you will find him. This is too late for FreeBMD, so there is no alternative to looking through each quarter of the original indexes. These are available on various subscription sites, but as you are London based you can go to Kew and access the Findmypast database for free.

[Lincoln Lad]

Hi Imabey, Gail cannot email you as she has laptop problems at the moment.

Keith