Descendants of Rev William Williams, Pantycelyn

[davidken28]

Does anybody have the full details of the 1st generation from the Rev, Williams? I have William, the curate in Cornwall, and John, the curate at Builth, who is buried with his father; are there other lines?
I am researching an alleged descent through the Hopcyn family of Cilmaengwyn Farm, Ynysmeudwy, Llangiwg, who married into he Lewis family of Ynys y corbwll, Llangiwg. Does this ring any bells?

[John Nicholas]

Hello Davidken,

I certainly hope there are more lines - see my November posting. I'm sure I've read somewhere about 7 surviving children out of 8 (or similar numbers). Unfortunately, only William and John are regularly named. The book on Williams by Glyn Tegai Hughes gives the briefest biographical details and is really a book of literary and religious analysis. There is a two-volume biography in Welsh by Gomer M Roberts, which I think might have a family tree, at least in volume one. You might be able to see or borrow that through your local library, as you live in Anglesey - it's not a volume which is readily available in Buckinghamshire!

Do post details if you have any luck!

John

[davidken28]

John,
Thank you for your detailed reply, and I will most certainly post you, privately, with the result of my researches|book2|

[John Nicholas]

Davidken,

You don't seem to have posted on the Brit-Gen forum over the past year, so I will also do a PM.

I have now acquired a copy of Volume 1 of the Gomer Roberts biography. My Welsh is not really up to a translation but I can understand a certain amount. Anyway, there are 2 family trees - of William Williams's branch, and of the wider Williams family starting 1/2 generations before. There is also a listing of William Williams's children (8, of whom 1 died in infancy), with their marriages, children and (in a couple of cases) grandchildren.

Unfortunately, I see no reference to either Hopcyn (or variants) or Lewis families, except for WW's mother, Dorothy Lewis of Pantycelyn.

Let me know whether you already have what you want or would like more details.

John

[Jen Whitehead]

Hi

I am also researching the family of William Williams Pantycelyn. I am the fourth generation granddaughter of William Williams. Unfortunately the older relatives of my family are now gone, and I cannot remember which daughter we are descended from. Hence the research. As you are aware. William had two sons. Both had no issue. The daughters are Amelia, Anne, Elizabeth, Maria Sophia (died 2 weeks old) Mary Sophia and Sarah. Sarah's descendents live at the farmhouse in Pentregwyn. You mention that the biography by Gomer Roberts lists the marriages, and grandchildren of William. Could you help me with some of daughters marriage details, and grandchildrens names.

Thanks
Jen Whitehead

[John Nicholas]

Jen,

I can send you some images by PM - see my other message.
John

[Kelvin Skyrme]

Hello,
I too am trying to research the descendants of William Williams Pantycelyn as my wife was told by her grandmother many years ago that she was a descendant. If anyone has a copy of the details from the Gomer Roberts biography or any other information I would be grateful.
Best Regards,
Kelvin.

[John Nicholas]

Hello Kelvin,

I will send you by PM some images of the appendix pages from the Gomer Roberts biography. It's all in Welsh, but you'll probably get the gist (if not try asking).

Direct descendants of WW are all through female lines, and therefore not Williams, except perhaps through later marriages into other Williams families. All his sons died without issue.

My grandmother made the same claims as yours (perhaps they all did!). I think there might be something in mine, but it would be a connection with the wider family and not directly with WW, I think.

John

[brentor boy]

Hi John,

My mother-in-law also claims descent from William Williams, but she is now of an age where her powers of recall are limited and unreliable. I have traced her Welsh ancestry back to Davies, Morgan, Llewellyn and Phillips, all born 1790-1810 in Swansea area and Pembrokeshire.

Is it possible to have details of WW's children/grandchildren so that I may check if there is any substance to her claim, please?

Vic

[Kelvin Skyrme]

Well there seem to be a few claimants to the descendancy of William Williams Pantycelyn. No wonder the current incumbent of the farm smiled when I visited last year and told him of my interest, "Yes", he said, "We get quite a few"! Pantycelyn is worth a visit though, Mr & Mrs Williams (he's a descendant through a female line marrying another Williams), were glad to show us around and we signed the visitors book and took a few photos.
My interest stems from my wife's Gr Grandmother, Margaret Williams, born Aberdare. We thought we may be on track when we found that her Grandfather, William Williams, was born in Llandovery, near to Pantycelyn, but there the trail goes cold. The connection may have been wishful thinking on the grandparents' part but I'll keep digging where I can. Thanks to all for the help.
Kelvin.

[Rhys John]

In a similar position trying to prove truth of family story. One new source. William Williams 1791 will is now online at NLW site, so helps by telling us which daughters were married, and their married names as at 1791. Amelia married Thomas Howel (hard to read) and Anne married Philip Thomas. Another strand says that Sarah later married into Griffith(s) family. And of course all may have married or remarried after 1791. But hope this helps you and others.

Rhys John

[nigelhadley]

Hello,

John if you're still on the forum I'd be very interested if you could send me the appendix pages of the Gomer Roberts biography.
I am descended from WWP's grandfather - you can see me links here;
http://www.hadley.org.uk/family-tree/jeffreys_williams_gameson-family-tree-1a.htm
Would be really interested to clear up any further links.

Regards

Nigel

[John Nicholas]

Hello Nigel,

Yes, I think I've seen your online tree before. I'll send you some images in a private message.

John

[Tristan Clee]

I'm believe I am 5th Generation of William Williams Pantycelyn through his son Rees Williams (1759)

[John Nicholas]

Hello Tristan,

I am sorry to disappoint you, but the authoritative biography of WWP (in Welsh) indicates but two sons, William and John, both clergymen and both dying unmarried and without issue. There is no evidence of a Rees (or Rhys) in the relevant appendices showing direct family and the wider clan.

John

[dlpbach]

Hi

I am also researching the family of William Williams Pantycelyn. I am the fourth generation granddaughter of William Williams. Unfortunately the older relatives of my family are now gone, and I cannot remember which daughter we are descended from. Hence the research. As you are aware. William had two sons. Both had no issue. The daughters are Amelia, Anne, Elizabeth, Maria Sophia (died 2 weeks old) Mary Sophia and Sarah. Sarah's descendents live at the farmhouse in Pentregwyn. You mention that the biography by Gomer Roberts lists the marriages, and grandchildren of William. Could you help me with some of daughters marriage details, and grandchildrens names.

Thanks
Jen Whitehead

Hello Jen,

I believe I am also 4th generation, but possibly 5th. My grandfather was either the son or grandson of Sarah. The details I have are vague because it's just my mother's memories of things her father used to mention when she was small, although I have an uncle whose done some research. I don't know if I may be able to be of some help.

[John Nicholas]

I have received the following PM from dlpbach:

“I'm attempting to trace back my family line to William Williams, and am really only going from vague details that my Mother remembers from when she was young. My Grandfather was Raymond Davies, and was the grandson of Sarah Griffiths who I believe was William William's daughter. My Mother believes that Sarah may be buried in Rhydgoch cemetery in Pontardulais.

If you have any information that you believe may help me in this little project, I would be so grateful.

Many thanks,
Debbie”

As I think it is not very helpful to have such conversations off-forum, I am answering Debbie here. This also gives me the chance to make some general points which others might find useful.

1. There is something wrong with the information Debbie has been given. As I am definitely NOT an expert on William WILLIAMS Pantycelyn (WWP), least of all on his descendants, I cannot say what the error is. A point to bear in mind is that, if all the people who claim some kinship with him in modern-day Wales were correct, he’d have needed about 150 children!
2. I do have a copy of a definitive biography by Gomer Morgan Roberts. This book is in Welsh, a language in which I am, shall we say, challenged. Naturally the biography concentrates on the life and works of WWP and any genealogical information is limited to a couple of appendices.
3. From the biography, the children of WWP (1717-1791) and Mary FRANCIS (1723-1799) were:
Amelia Mariah (1750-1846) married Thomas POWELL
William (1751-1818)
John (1754-1828)
Anne (1756-1831) married Philip THOMAS
Mary Sophia (1758-) died before 1762??
Elizabeth Margaretta (1761-1833)
Maria Sophia (1762-1853) married Samuel GRIFFITHS
Sarah (1764-1855) married William DAVIES
4. As far as I know, all the marriages of the children are shown. In particular, the two sons remained unmarried and so no legitimate descendants acquired the Williams surname from WWP.
5. Despite WWP’s ‘adoption’ by non-conformism and a sometimes fractious relationship with his church superiors because of his style and beliefs, WWP was, and remained throughout his life, a clergyman of the Anglican Church. His two sons were also clergymen of the established church.

So, Debbie, I’m sorry I can’t give you any confirmation of what you’ve been told. If you’ve established a link to a Sarah Griffiths, should you consider the possibility that she was the daughter of Maria Sophia and Samuel, and therefore the granddaughter of WWP? But now is the time for certificates and parish register entries (or non-conformist equivalents) to really link people together.

John