Worrell Family in 1891

[bwebster186]

I cannot seem to find that Thomas Henry Worrell Family of Wandsworth/Battersea in 1891 census, which I can find in 1871, 1881 and 1901. Thomas Jr (b 1866) may have been living elsewhere, as I can find him on his son's death cert in Scotland in 1894, and the 1901 UK the census indicates another son was born in 1888 in Scotland. No record discovered for births for his children Thomas (1888), George(1892) or Isabel(1890)in england. However, Thomas Sr. (b. 1843) never really left the area and was alive in 1901. I've tried various spellings, even Morrell...with no luck. Any other suggestions? Thanks,

Brenda

[Geoffers]

He could have just been missed

Or he could have been in an institution which only recorded him by initials

Or he could have been recorded on a census page which has been damaged/destroyed.

If there is a connection with London and Scotland - could he have been travelling bwetween the two? What did Thomas do for a living?

Was he in Scotland?

Have you some more details of your chap? From all the other census returns when and where was Thomas Henry WOR(R)(E/A)L(L) born?

What was his wife's name?

Who is the yongest child who should be alive and living with him in 1891? (name, birthplace, rough birthyear).

[bwebster186]

There's two Thomas Henry Worrell - the father, born in Chelsea 1843, wife Mary Scanlon. In 1881, living in Battersea, youngeset child Isabella (3 months old); son Thomas Henry living with them as well (age 14, not 4 as on census).

Son Thoms Henry, joined the Scottish Rifles in 1892. Before that, I don't know what he did. After 1892, he was a carreer soldier (I beleive he was a musician), eventually retiring as Rgt Sergeant Major, Lincoln Reg (as indicated on his daughter Isabel's marriage cert.) His wife was Isabella Murray. He may very well have been in Ireland in 1891 - since I can't find any marriage records in Scotland or England, or birth records for their three children.

It's the father Thomas I am most curious about, because I don't beleive he left England. Like you suggested, he may have been missed!

[Alan Welsford]

However, Thomas Sr. (b. 1843) never really left the area and was alive in 1901.

I must admit to being slightly confused.

The 1901 census shows 2 different Thomas H WORRELLs indicated as the sons of Thomas H and Mary WORRELL.

Is that a mistake ? I'm guessing the younger (Scotland born) one may actually be a grandson, and perhaps 'belong' to the older one, shown as a widower ?

Either way, what evidence do you have that says the oldest of the 3 Thomas H WORRELLs should have been in England in 1891.

If his son was likely in Scotland, is it not possible that the whole family were ?

That said, in my experience one of the most likely reasons you can't find someone in a census, is simply that they just never got recorded. I'm not quite sure what the statistic is for people not being included in censuses, but it's probably a higher percentage 'miss' rate than most people realise. (Of course the quirky indexing of some census data can equally mean that they ARE there, but you just can't find them!...)

[bwebster186]

Hi Alan,

That is an error in the 1901 census, 13 yr old Thomas is the grandson. Why Isabelle (she would have been 10) is not there is also a "question" I've had for awhile. Since her mother died between 1894 (or 1896 - I think there is another child, Robert, born in Battersea in 1896) and 1901, perhaps she was left with relatives. The family was always told she had been orphaned - but clearly she was not (from her marriage cert.)

I have no evidence that the family of Thomas Sr. didn't move outside England between 1881and 1901. I didn't find them in Scotland though. Maybe Ireland (wife Mary was Irish). Any suggestion where else they could have been??

[Alan Welsford]

I'm sure you have already tried it, but the Scottish census shows hardly any WORRALLs (or variants) in 1891.

So it seems to me you can't even prove the son who looks like he may have been there in 1891 actually was.

I meant to ask, did they switch fore-names. I haven't been back and checked, but don't they have a Frederick (I think) in 1881, but an Edward (I think again!), with a similar birth date 20 years later ?

It never helps when they do that !

Have you found any trace of any member of the family at all, anywhere in '91 ?

Aren't Irish censuses the ones that get destroyed ? I'm no expert, but don't think you'll get far if he was in Ireland!

Alan

p.s. I'll throw down the gauntlet for anyone to find my great grandmother, plus two of her daughters in 1901. That one I've tried everything, and I really do think she just isn't enumerated.

[Jan1954]

p.s. I'll throw down the gauntlet for anyone to find my great grandmother, plus two of her daughters in 1901. That one I've tried everything, and I really do think she just isn't enumerated.

Have you posted the details? If so, where? I love a challenge.... I think... :o

[v.wells]

They may well be in the Battersea/Wandsworth area. The census taker for one of those area had verrrrrry bad handwriting! Have you tried Wo***l? I'll give it a shot.
1891 census
RG12, 1068, 89,25
Henry Thos Worrell 42
Henry Thos Worrell 18
Mary Elizabeth Worrell 16
William Henry 13

[Alan Welsford]

Well done Vanessa!

It looks like you are not using A******y then ?

One of it's nasty limitations is it will not let you wildcard after anything fewer than 3 leading letters, (or at least that's what I've always found).

Glad someone found it!

[bwebster186]

Hi Vanessa,
Thank you for looking up the Worrell family...but I don't think it is the right one. My Mary is also known as Mary Ann, but not Mary Elizabeth, and she would have been 22 in 1891. As well, Thomas Henry's wife was still living in 1891, and Thomas Jr. was 25. So many common names!! But what is the trick to searching with wild cards, or even how to search Battersea street by street - which at this point I would do. I'm very stubborn

[v.wells]

Well done Vanessa!

It looks like you are not using A******y then ?

One of it's nasty limitations is it will not let you wildcard after anything fewer than 3 leading letters, (or at least that's what I've always found).

Glad someone found it!

I was using A.. just changed the spelling. Unfortunately, it is not the right one.

[v.wells]

Hi Vanessa,
Thank you for looking up the Worrell family...but I don't think it is the right one. My Mary is also known as Mary Ann, but not Mary Elizabeth, and she would have been 22 in 1891. As well, Thomas Henry's wife was still living in 1891, and Thomas Jr. was 25. So many common names!! But what is the trick to searching with wild cards, or even how to search Battersea street by street - which at this point I would do. I'm very stubborn

Mary may have Elizabeth as 2 or 3rd name. I think by trawling this http://www.gro.gov.uk/ under census you can search street by street. I often forget where I've gone but try that. Also findmypast but that's ppv. I will continue the hunt! Also ages were round down for adults so the ages may not be bang on. Also people lied about their ages for whatever reason. But, I will keep looking. Perhaps I'll have a lightbulb moment!

[bwebster186]

Thank you Vanessa!! I have tried find...looked under spoke or spike rd, where the family lived in 1881, and lithgow rd where the family lived in 1901 - zero finds!! I'll try the site you suggested.
B.

Mary was Harriet Mary Ann...it's listed in her husbands pension records (she married William Charles Powell in 1906). In 1919 they lived at 50 Inworth St; her brother Edward lived next door before his death in 1915. I tried Inworth street for 1891 also, but no Worrells living there then. Also, as a side note, Mary and William Powell were the witnesses at the marriage of Isabel (mary's neice, my grgrgrandmother) in 1919, who married Gillis White, who lived at 16 Inworth ST. Hmmm wonder how they met!

[v.wells]

Are you sure Thomas 1866 born in Wandsworth? Thomas henry Morell 1868 Islington, Gtr. London, Vol 1b 191 . It's next door to Wandsworth/Battersea.
sorry, wrong one. I misstyped the M for W

How's this: Thomas Henry Worrell 1866 4 Q vol 1b p 191
Marylebone, London, Middlesex?

[v.wells]

I am NOT having a good moment here! I just screwed up again. I got too excited when I saw the 1866, then realized I was looking at wrong index. Better leave it to someone less stupid than I am!

[bwebster186]

Thomas H Worrell Wandsworth 1d/485 mar qtr 1866 (he was actually born Dec 12, 1865).
Most of the time, the last name is spelled Worrell, which is correct. I've found them under Warrell, Worrall, Werrell, and sometimes with only one L at the end!
His father Thomas was born in Chelsea (Middlesex) 1843.
To confuse things even more....Battersea is in Surrey first, and then Greater London, and I think even at one point Middlesex! The only thing that seems to remain constant in the registration district of Wandsworth! And of course, there is more than one Worrell family here!!
I had better luck finding all the White's I was looking for!!

[v.wells]

I have also tried Worrow, worroll , nada. I have been looking for Thomas 1843 and Isobel . I did find an Isobel Doris Adams as g daughter 1891, but the other names didn't jive so I didn't note it down. Also thomas Worrell 1891 RG12, 955, 46 p 21 Royal Horse Guards right age for him but doesn't match with other mil details on above post. Have a look. Maybe he got married abroad as was in military www.gibraltargenealogy.com. There is another thread with www.maltafamilyhistory.com.

[ChrisKelly]

I cannot seem to find that Thomas Henry Worrell Family of Wandsworth/Battersea in 1891 census, which I can find in 1871, 1881 and 1901. Thomas Jr (b 1866) may have been living elsewhere, as I can find him on his son's death cert in Scotland in 1894, and the 1901 UK the census indicates another son was born in 1888 in Scotland. No record discovered for births for his children Thomas (1888), George(1892) or Isabel(1890)in england. However, Thomas Sr. (b. 1843) never really left the area and was alive in 1901. I've tried various spellings, even Morrell...with no luck. Any other suggestions? Thanks,

Brenda

I can find your family in both the 1881 and 1901 censuses, but I'm a bit confused by some of the names and dates you mention. Isabel (or Isabella?) is born in 1880 not 1890 surely? And that being the case, this could be her birth certificate:
Isabella Worrell
1881 / Jan-Feb-Mar / Wandsworth / Vol 1d / p. 641

[bwebster186]

Hi Chris

There really are too many Thomas's and Isabelle's!!! Isabelle in 1881 is the aunt of my Isabelle (1890). I really do beleive that my Isabelle and her brothers were born outside of England as I cannot find birth index for the three. Or a marraige for Thomas Henry Worrell and Isabelle Murray, their parents. Just a death cert. for the youngest George William in Glasgow in 1894. Thomas Henry and Isabelle Murray were living there, he was a member of the Scottish Rifles - joined about 1892.

I am looking for the parents of Isabelle (1881), Thomas and Mary, in the 1891 census.The never really strayed too far from Wandsworth. He worked at the Price Candle Factory.