Hello All,

[Dana]

I am new to this site. My name is Dana, a 'wrinkly' who has been researching my family tree for 20 plus years. I live in Stoke Mandeville, Bucks.
My family names include MORLEY from North Yorks and London.
BARLOW, BENNETT, GILLMAN, HAWTIN and PEAR, from the Tower Hamlets area of London, plus COMINS, WHITAKER, LONGMAN, WILLOWS and PALLISER from North Yorkshire.
Backwards I am stuck at around 1777 and more recently I cannot identify my grandfather William Arthur MORLEY's WW1 cap badge. He was born 27th Sept. 1886. Harome, NRY, served in the London Met: Police before and after the war until he retired on the 27th July 1936.
I have sent and shown the photograph to the many F.H.S's that I belong to plus the Imperial War Museum, Army Museum, etc. without success. His official Police photo shows the usual medals but I canot find him in the Medal Rolls.
I am becoming quite frustrated and any help or information which anyone can provide will be very much appreciated.
Best wishes, Dana

[Bo Peep]

|wave|Hello Dana and welcome to Brit-Gen. I am so pleased you have chosen to join us and hope that someone will be able to assist with your queries.

[Geoffers]

I cannot identify my grandfather William Arthur MORLEY's WW1 cap badge.

Some thoughts........

Can you identify him on the medal card index on documentsonline?

Do you have his WW1 medals (name, rank, no. regt on the rim of the medals)

Does he appear in the National Roll of the Great War?

Is his one of the surviving 'burnt records' at TNA?

Do you have any photos of him in uniform? Or is this cap badge in a photo? If this is the case, does his uniform give any clues? can you post the photo on a site and then provide the URL here?

Did he marry, or have any children whilst serving in the army?

[arthurk]

My family names include MORLEY from North Yorks and London.
BARLOW, BENNETT, GILLMAN, HAWTIN and PEAR, from the Tower Hamlets area of London, plus COMINS, WHITAKER, LONGMAN, WILLOWS and PALLISER from North Yorkshire.
Hi Dana, and welcome. PALLISER from North Yorkshire is one of my names, though I have to confess that virtually everything I know about this line was researched by a cousin.

My website includes an outline of my PALLISER ancestors, plus more details on a few of them (I'm still working on the rest). To get there click on my name above, then go to my profile, where there's a link. Once on the site, follow the link to the RUTTER chart, and the PALLISER line starts in the lower half. Have fun exploring, and let me know if you run into problems - or if we might connect. (There's also a PALLISER one name study, and my site has a link to the website.)

Arthur

[Dana]

Hello Geoffers,

Thanks for your response. I only have one photo of William Arthur MORLEY in Army uniform with his wife and three of 5 children. No 4 didn't arrive until 1917 so I suppose he was away somewhere. My father looks to be 5 or 6 and he was born June 1909.
I am sorry to say that I don't know how or where to add the photograph so any suggestions would be most welcome.
I cannot find him on the Medal Rolls and I do not have any of his medals, unfortunately.
Dana

[Geoffers]

Thanks for your response. I only have one photo of William Arthur MORLEY in Army uniform with his wife and three of 5 children.

On this photograph can you see if there are there any stripes on his arms, or insignia on his shoulders? (was he an Officer, or a Sergeant/Corporal or a Private/Pioneer/Driver, etc)

Do you have any photos of him in the police which show shis medals/medal ribbons? In particular any that might be gallantry medals which would turn up in a search of the London Gazette?

Is there a record of his re-appointment in the police which might record his previous occupation (hopefuly including a regiment) or is his one of those that has not survived?

[Mutley]

Dana, could you scan the photo to your computer and then put it on here for all those with the knowledge to see it.

Mary gives us simple instructions as below:

This is what I do:
(1) register at www.photobucket.com (http://www.photobucket.com/) (it's free).
(2) upload your photo to the site.
(3) once it's uploaded, you'll see 4 little boxes underneath.
(4) click in the bottom box (which auto-copies the link into your clipboard)
(5) paste (Ctrl+v) into your forum posting.
Voila!
__________________
Mary Young, Edinburgh

If you click on the 'search' button on the blue line above and put in photobucket you will find many threads regarding the inserting of a picture. If you do manage it I am sure you will get many responses from those on the site that are "in the know" regarding military.

[Dana]

On this photograph can you see if there are there any stripes on his arms, or insignia on his shoulders? (was he an Officer, or a Sergeant/Corporal or a Private/Pioneer/Driver, etc)

Do you have any photos of him in the police which show shis medals/medal ribbons? In particular any that might be gallantry medals which would turn up in a search of the London Gazette?

Is there a record of his re-appointment in the police which might record his previous occupation (hopefuly including a regiment) or is his one of those that has not survived?


Hi Geoffers,
The Army photo shows the stripes of a Sergent.
The Police photo shows 4 medals.

I have not been able to comply with the Phhotobucket instructions for reasons I cannot fathom. I thought that I did everything correctly but the Copy and Paste part will not obey!
Dana

[Dana]

Dana, could you scan the photo to your computer and then put it on here for all those with the knowledge to see it.

Mary gives us simple instructions as below:

This is what I do:
(1) register at www.photobucket.com (http://www.photobucket.com/) (it's free).
(2) upload your photo to the site.
(3) once it's uploaded, you'll see 4 little boxes underneath.
(4) click in the bottom box (which auto-copies the link into your clipboard)
(5) paste (Ctrl+v) into your forum posting.
Voila!
__________________
Mary Young, Edinburgh

If you click on the 'search' button on the blue line above and put in photobucket you will find many threads regarding the inserting of a picture. If you do manage it I am sure you will get many responses from those on the site that are "in the know" regarding military.

Thank you Mary, for your instructions. All went well until the 'Auto copy' part, but goodness knows where they are now as I cannot find the 2 photos.
I am not very computer literate so must have done something wrong!
Dana

[Dana]

|wave|Hello Dana and welcome to Brit-Gen. I am so pleased you have chosen to join us and hope that someone will be able to assist with your queries.

Hello Bo Peep and thank you for your warm welcome to Brit-Gen. I am already overwhelmed by the various responses and only wish that I understood computers better!
Dana

[Dana]

Hi Dana, and welcome. PALLISER from North Yorkshire is one of my names, though I have to confess that virtually everything I know about this line was researched by a cousin.

My website includes an outline of my PALLISER ancestors, plus more details on a few of them (I'm still working on the rest). To get there click on my name above, then go to my profile, where there's a link. Once on the site, follow the link to the RUTTER chart, and the PALLISER line starts in the lower half. Have fun exploring, and let me know if you run into problems - or if we might connect. (There's also a PALLISER one name study, and my site has a link to the website.)

Arthur

Hello "Cuzzen" Arthur,
Thanks for your message and the invitation to see your website which is very clever. We share the same 4 or 5 x Gt. Grandparents, George Palliser and Elizabeth Smith! How about that? RUTH Palliser was one of my grandmothers.

It is many years since I visited Renia's "Palliser" website so must put it on my 'to do' list. I cannot remember which 'Group' I belong to.

Dana

[Geoffers]

Hi Geoffers,
The Army photo shows the stripes of a Sergent.
The Police photo shows 4 medals.

Okedoke that may help to narrow things down. I think it likely that two of the medals will be the Victory Medal and the British War Medal. That leaves a query as to what the other two medals might be. Have a look at this link on TNA (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp), which shows the medals that could be awarded. Is the photo clear enough to see if any of the medals are a different shape - could they be the 1914 or 1914/15 star?? This would show that he was in a theatre no later than a certain date as specified in the link.

Also, having the Sergeants stripes will help to narrow things down.
Using documents online (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=10&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1)search just on William and MORLEY. In the rank enter the old spelling Serjeant and search on that.

You'll get 19 hits. several of whom have a second initial that is not A - so at the moment they might be discarded. Disacrding those for whom William was a second name, that leaves 5 possibles. This is where you decide if something is worth a shot. You pay £3.50 to download a medal card - but - you actually get 6 on the same card. If you are lucky all those with just William as a forename will be on the same card.

Going back to knowing your William had four medals, do any of the cards indicate that the recipient received four medals? With luck you can narrow things down even further. With the names of the regiments/corps in which they served, try searching the internet for army inisignia and see if any of the images look similar to your photo.

The National Archives (TNA) at Kew has loads of reseach guides. For the army, click here (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp?j=1#b) and look at links as to the types of documents available. With a small list of soldiers to work at, it would not take long to try and work through them, eliminating those from your short list until you hopefully find your chap.

[Geoffers]

PS - I forgot to add - IF one of the medals was for gallantry, it may appear in the London Gazette (http://www.londongazette.co.uk/AdvancedSearch.aspx?GeoType=London)

Try limiting a search to WW1 and just seach on the name, William MORLEY - you may have to repeat the search using MORLEY W

You are likely to get a lot of hits to browse through which will take a while, but use this as an excuse to have a cuppa - and at least its free. If you find any William MORLEY/MORLEY W entries who were either Pte, Cpl, Sgt - you may have a match - if so, does it/they tie up with information from the medal card index?

[Mutley]

Thank you Mary, for your instructions. All went well until the 'Auto copy' part, but goodness knows where they are now as I cannot find the 2 photos.
I am not very computer literate so must have done something wrong!
Dana

You are probably doing it correctly. The clipboard is somewhere on your computer and it just temporarily saves something for you to copy and paste.

Try again but click on the 2nd line down that says 'Direct Link' and a small yellow label should pop up that says "Copied"

Then above this area (where you are typing in now) is a row of options. There is B I U for Bold etc. Along to the right is a small picture of what looks like a mountain. Click on that, it says insert image. You then get a field that has http://. Highlight it with the mouse, right click with the mouse and click on paste. Then the OK box.

Your picture should appear here, like this has. (do each one separately)

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r297/MutleyBG/th9636b50b.gif

Best of Luck

[arthurk]

Hello "Cuzzen" Arthur,
Thanks for your message and the invitation to see your website which is very clever. We share the same 4 or 5 x Gt. Grandparents, George Palliser and Elizabeth Smith! How about that? RUTH Palliser was one of my grandmothers.

It is many years since I visited Renia's "Palliser" website so must put it on my 'to do' list. I cannot remember which 'Group' I belong to.

Dana
Yay!! |jumphappy (I've been wanting to use that for a long time.)

Of course, the connection would be through someone whose details I haven't uploaded yet, but very briefly I have George as a weaver in Sowerby, NRY, and 5 children: Jane 1776, William 1779, George 1780, Matthew 1785, and Ruth 1788.

As I said, my information on this line has come from a cousin, but where I can, I'm trying to flesh it out a bit as I write the webpages. However, in this case there doesn't seem to be much to flesh it out with - apart from Matthew, my ancestor, I only have years of birth at present. Going back from George and Elizabeth, again I don't have much more than lists of children, but it at least gives something to start from. I can send you more details if you need them.

Renia's Palliser study is at http://www.palliser.co.uk, and as I'm in her Group 10, I expect you are too. Anyway, I'll leave it there for now, as we probably ought to continue this by email or private message. You can send either to me via the links in my profile.

Arthur

[Lesleyp]

Do you know your gfathers parents names? His wifes name?.....lesley

[Dana]

Do you know your gfathers parents names? His wifes name?.....lesley

Hi Lesley,
Thank you for your message.
His parents names were Robert Robson MORLEY (1860-1943) and Mary Ann PICKARD (1861-1919) and his wife's name was Harriet "Hetty" COMINS (1882-1973). They were all from the Helmsley, NRY area.
Dana

[Lesleyp]

Cwgc, for both wars but nothing on there. Have you tried asking the ww1 experts on the great war forum? There are alot of very knowledgeable experts on ww1 medals, regiments, soldiers etc....i will come back with the address....lesley

[Lesleyp]

Http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/

[Dana]

Http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/

Very many thanks for the link it is kind of you Jan. I will go and investigate.
Dana

[arthurk]

Here on behalf of my new-found cousin Dana :) are the photos she'd like help with - specifically the army cap badge, but anything else would be appreciated. This is her grandfather William Arthur MORLEY (born 27 Sep 1886).

First, in army uniform with his family:
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~akpak/misc/morley1.jpg

And in police uniform (sorry this one is big, but making it smaller made the medals and ribbons harder to make out):
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~akpak/misc/morley2.jpg

Hope someone can help!

Arthur

[Dana]

Hello Arthur,
Thank you so very much for including the two photographs of my grandfather William Arthur Morley into this thread. You have done a wonderful job and I am most grateful.
Bless you!
Best wishes,
Dana

[Geoffers]

As you look at it, the second medal from the left looks like the Victory medal. I would expect the one on the far left to be the British War medal, but there appears to be a thin band running up the middle and I thought it just had a wide band there - I'll have a think about that, unless someone else has inspiration.

The medal on the right of what I think is the Victory medal is difficult because of reflection on the medal, but the ribbon looks like the County & Borough Police 1911 Coronation Medal (three thin blue strips on a red background) for George V.

The medal on the far right looks like the George V Jubilee Medal (1936) - which at least gives you a date after which this photo was taken.

Unfortunately this doesn't help identify your chap's regiment/corps

[Dana]

PS - I forgot to add - IF one of the medals was for gallantry, it may appear in the London Gazette (http://www.londongazette.co.uk/AdvancedSearch.aspx?GeoType=London)

Try limiting a search to WW1 and just seach on the name, William MORLEY - you may have to repeat the search using MORLEY W

You are likely to get a lot of hits to browse through which will take a while, but use this as an excuse to have a cuppa - and at least its free. If you find any William MORLEY/MORLEY W entries who were either Pte, Cpl, Sgt - you may have a match - if so, does it/they tie up with information from the medal card index?

Hi Geoffers,
I tried getting the names as you suggested and making a note of the Regt. Unfortunately I have mislaid my 'Cap' recognition chart at the moment so am unable to check. As W.A. Morley was in the Met Police before and after the war, do you suppose that he was a Military Policeman?
Thank you for all of your valuable imput.
Dana

[Geoffers]

I tried getting the names as you suggested and making a note of the Regt. Unfortunately I have mislaid my 'Cap' recognition chart at the moment so am unable to check.

There are several sites online where you can view cap badges and insignia; some are dealers who display what they have for sale.

As W.A. Morley was in the Met Police before and after the war, do you suppose that he was a Military Policeman?

He could have been in any regiment/corps; I would suggest keeping an open mind on that until you have information which is worth following up.

[Dana]

Thank you Geoffers, my mind is keeping open and hopeful!