2 causes for comment

[Chisel]

1857, Desease of Liver, 18 months Acute certified.

1866, Paralysis, certified

I am after a fuller explanation of what these causes are and what might cause them.

Cheers.

[ChristineR]

If the liver disease was caused by alcohol then it would probably say Cirrhosis of the liver. (or the doctor was being polite) More than likely it was a cancer, usually well underway before any diagnosis was made, and nothing to be done about it in those days. If it were a secondary cancer than it will give other causes of death too. I do not think that Cirrhosis would kill someone so quick.

Paralysis could follow a stroke or accident - no length of time is specified so it might have been of longstanding nature, so the certifying doctor did not make a judgment on what caused it.

I would not have thought it was enough as a cause to kill one, unless it was tetanus, but then it would say. Does the death certificate have other causes of death for this person? sometimes they will give several causes.
It could have been muscular dystrophy, with the person ending up not being able to move. I am thinking Multiple Sclerosis.

Just my thoughts, I am not a doctor. There are a lot of handy web sites out there to find these things out.

http://www.healthinsite.gov.au/content/topic_map/topic_map.cfm

ChristineR

[mary elms]

I'd like to express some caution about working from causes of death on certificates - they can be very tricky - they can give you a very clear picture or a very foggy picture. We need to be careful not to jump to conclusions when reading them. For example, not all Cirrhosis of the liver is caused by alcohol. I can think of at least one life-long tea totaller who has that on their death certificate. Websites like the one Christine suggests are a useful aid and when reading them we need to take careful notice of words like "may be" and "whatever the cause" in the descriptions.

Mary.

[Sandra Parker]

according to Paul Smith Medical Terms http://www.paul_smith.doctors.org.uk/ArchaicMedicalTerms.htm
states Paralysis - Will generally mean a stroke if used as an unmodified term

and Rudy's list of Archaic Medical Terms, http://www.antiquusmorbus.com/English/English.htm
Paralysis - Palsy. A disease characterized by loss or great diminution of the power of voluntary motion, affecting any part of the body. [Thomas1875].
Abolition of function, whether complete or partial; esp., the loss of the power of voluntary motion, with or without that of sensation, in any part of the body; palsy. [Webster1913].
Loss or impairment of the ability to move a body part, usually as a result of damage to its nerve supply. [Heritage]
"paralysis" was first used: 1525. [Webster]
also Parkinsons Disease was noted as a type of paralysis.
Disease -A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.

so Disease of liver could be any of these, as well as those suggested by other forum members.
Cheers
Sandra

[jeeb]

1857, Desease of Liver, 18 months Acute certified.

1866, Paralysis, certified

I am after a fuller explanation of what these causes are and what might cause them.

Cheers.

Hi Peter,
It is important to remember that our ancestors did not have the scientific advances available to the medical profession of today and most diagnosis was based on visual examination. Post Mortems were carried out but yet again with limited knowledge and many conditions and symptoms would be grouped together under certain accepted diagnosis.
Paralysis would cover any form of stroke or perhaps a sudden inability to move through an accident maybe, also as Sandra suggested Parkinson's disease was often diagnosed as Paralysis.

There are many general descriptions for causes of death recorded on early death certificates that today would require a more accurate definition eg:-
Dysponea was applied to all forms of difficult breathing.
Dropsy, a common occurence on death certificates meant filling with water but probably was more likely heart or kidney failure.
Marasmus invariably applied to young children simply means wasting away which could have numerous causes.

Then of course, as most of you will have come across when the cause of death was unknown you get 'Visitation of God' or 'Old age'

Jeremy

[Chisel]

Happy New Year to all. Your answers are close enough for what I was after. I am also highly offended that it is insinuated that my 4x gt grandmother was an alcoholic ;)
Stroke = Paralysis probably a good assumption.

I am also aware that alot of ailments were lumped under an all encompassing name, this is especially true for all those tired woman in mental institutes labelled as being insane for the rest of eternity.

[ChristineR]

I am also highly offended that it is insinuated that my 4x gt grandmother was an alcoholic ;)

Had me worried there for a second :D

ChristineR

[Chisel]

Jane was only 27 when she died.
She also got sick (18 months sickness illness) after her 2nd child died aged <1yr.
Her 1st child is my Gt Gt grandmother.
Father remarried and had another 7 children.

[MythicalMarian]

Then of course, as most of you will have come across when the cause of death was unknown you get 'Visitation of God' or 'Old age'

Jeremy

I've been quite lucky with most of my death certificates, and they range from the very full descriptions such as Morbus cordis mitralis (a failure of the mitral valve, according to my Cardiologist boss) and 'emphysema, asthma and bronchitis' for one poor chap, to 'senile decay' for my great-great gran at 83! I have very many bad chests among my Stokes males - a problem that continues to this day.

And I'm another one with a 'liverish' death. The senile decayed lady's husband died at only 39 years old of 'a liver complaint'. This seems a little young for cirrhosis and may indicate a hepatitis infection or something. Or he may have had any number of diseases that would cause a jaundice, which the doctors may have lumped together as 'liver complaint'.

[jeeb]

And I'm another one with a 'liverish' death. The senile decayed lady's husband died at only 39 years old of 'a liver complaint'. This seems a little young for cirrhosis and may indicate a hepatitis infection or something. Or he may have had any number of diseases that would cause a jaundice, which the doctors may have lumped together as 'liver complaint'.

Hi Marian,
You did not state the year of death for your ancestor who died aged 39 but seeing he was the husband of a widow aged 83 who died of 'senile decay' (another way of saying old age) then I would estimate he died mid 19th century. However, I don't think it would be too young to die of cirrhosis of the liver if he had maybe lived a life of heavy alcohol abuse and poor working conditions, common in mid 19th century. It could also easily have been cancer, a word not commonly found on earlier death certificates.

Jeremy

[MythicalMarian]

Hi Marian,
You did not state the year of death for your ancestor who died aged 39 but seeing he was the husband of a widow aged 83 who died of 'senile decay' (another way of saying old age) then I would estimate he died mid 19th century. However, I don't think it would be too young to die of cirrhosis of the liver if he had maybe lived a life of heavy alcohol abuse and poor working conditions, common in mid 19th century. It could also easily have been cancer, a word not commonly found on earlier death certificates.

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy, Yes, you are right, my William died in 1842 just before his 40th birthday, and there have been times when I wondered if he was a total drunkard! (I think one always does when liver diseases rear their heads.) Funnily enough, his brother Joseph was found dead in Heaton Mersey in 1856, his death certificate stating 'killed by a wagon wheel running over him' (recorded by the coroner). I often wondered if he had stumbled out of the local pub and fallen in the road. Either that or the wagon driver rode off and our Joe was a Victorian hit-and-run victim. |biggrin|

A question for you: Knowing how politically incorrect those darling registrars and vicars were in the 19th century, do you think it would be possible that a death from drink could actually have been recorded as such? It's just something I've always wondered about.

[Wilkes_ml]

Well, my ancestor was actually confirmed as an alcoholic!!|biggrin| She died in 1905 at the age of 44 from Bronchitis and chronic alcoholism. She left behind a husband with 10 kids. Husband died 4 years later from pulmonary tunberculosis and exhaustion. I am hoping that the older orphaned children (in their 30s) looked after the younger ones.

[jeeb]

A question for you: Knowing how politically incorrect those darling registrars and vicars were in the 19th century, do you think it would be possible that a death from drink could actually have been recorded as such? It's just something I've always wondered about.

Hi Marian,
In cases of consistently bad behaviour through drunkeness I have seen comments made in parish registers accompaning a death record (usually something like 'vagabond and drunkard') but it would be unlikely that a comment would be made in general.
If you think your ancestor may have been a drunkard and possible trouble causer it may be worth looking to see if he was mentioned in the 'quarter sessions'. Often people were brought before the magistrates for what today would seem a very minor offence and these documents are often over looked as a useful source of information, mainly because most are not indexed and require laborious research.
With reference to drunkeness, I did find a very interesting article in the Worcester Quarter Sessions, admittedly very early 17th century, where a Preacher was brought before Magistrates for constant drunkeness and such behaviour with 2 women deemed not suitable for a man of the cloth!

Jeremy