Help needed on tracing immigration before 1881

[maisiem]

Trying to find out more about my great-grandparents who only appear on Uk census records from 1871 onwards:

Isaac Jacobs b.1856 d. 1942 m Minnie (or Millie) Hart b.1859 d. 1943(both born in Poland)
Isaac's parents are Symon b. c1825 & Addle b. c1833

Lewis Singer b.1866 m Rebecca Dubrovsky b.1887 d. 1940 (Lewis born in Austria, Rebecca born in Poland)
Rebecca's parents are Barnett b. c1833 & Ruth b. c1843

No one in the family seems to know any more about these people, where exactly they came from or when they arrived here. I've tried lots of sites but keep drawing a blank! Any suggesions or advice, gladly received.

[Geoffers]

Welcome to the B-G Forums and good luck with your research.

Denization and Naturalization records are individually indexed on The National Archives (TNA) catalogue (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/default.asp)

If you are defintely, absolutely and completely sure that your people came from Poland, try searching as follows

In the word or phrase field, enter Isaac Jacobs AND Poland
(Note that the AND needs to be in capitals - change the search for each individual, but keep to the same format you may ned to try vairant spellings)

Leave the dates blank

In the department or series code, enter HO

From memory, in the hits you get you need to look for those in document class HO44, HO45 or HO144

[maisiem]

Hi Geoffers

Thanks for your reply and suggestions. I've now had a search of the catalogue and have found a possible (but unlikely) match for Isaac. I'm unable to find any match for the others. To be honest, I'm relying on the entries in the census records for their various places if birth (Austria and Poland).

I'll keep trying!

Katharine

[Geoffers]

Roughly when did your family arrive in the UK? (What is the earliest census in which you can locate them? - where were they living?)

What did they do for a living? - Were they in business?

Edit:
Just had a look on the 1871 census, presumably this is your bunch:
RG10/511 f19 p32
Montague Street, Spitalfields
Symon JACOBS, 46, tailor
Addle, wf, 38 and children Rebecca 20, Sophy 18, Sarah 13, Isaac 15, Blumy 9, Daley 6
All born Poland.

Since there was no reason to lie about birthplace, we might work on that being correct, which places an arrival in England from 1865 onwards.

Do any later census returns show a birthplace in Poland for any of the above?

This link http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/census/events/britain4.htm seems specifically related to the 1901 census, but I would imagine problems encountered, the reasons for moving and conditions of transport may not have changedmuch over a few decades.

The Jewish Genealogical Society of GB may have members researching the same line(s) or be able to offer advice to asist.
http://www.jgsgb.org.uk/index.shtml

[maisiem]

Hi
Yep that's them! I can find all of them on the 1871 census so will just keep on looking for more clues! They all seemed to be tailors or cigar makers. Daley's name changed to Deborah in later censuses and Blumy's changed to Bertha!

Apparently on the other side Rebecca Dubowski (sp?) was married twice so I'm now going to investigate that avenue. Since my last email I've found Barnett's naturalisation record on the NA site - many thanks again

K

[jeeb]

Hi Katherine,
The 1871 census shows the youngest child born in Poland, so the family came to Great Britian between 1865 & 1871* (I expect you have seen the later censuses where names are clearer than 1871 census and some of the children listed as boys are actually girls) The 1881 census is interesting because Isaac seems to be listed twice. He appears with his parents in London as married but no wife present. He is then also listed as being in Stroud, Glous. with his wife Millie and a 1 month old son Harry. (In 1891 & 1901 this child has become Alfred) The fact he is in Stroud in 1881 should not be overlooked. He is living next to other Jewish families and you will need to delve deeply for a probable connection.

* In 1871 it is worth noting several Polish born families are living in neighbouring households, all seem to be tailors. The children of these families over the age of two all appear to have been born in Poland. It is likely these families travelled together so you are looking for an arrival date 1868/9. A starting point at least.

Jeremy

[Geoffers]

I've found Barnett's naturalisation record on the NA site - many thanks again

You can order a copy of this via TNA and it may be worth obtaining for any additional information it contains.

[maisiem]

Hi Katherine,
The 1871 census shows the youngest child born in Poland, so the family came to Great Britian between 1865 & 1871* (I expect you have seen the later censuses where names are clearer than 1871 census and some of the children listed as boys are actually girls) The 1881 census is interesting because Isaac seems to be listed twice. He appears with his parents in London as married but no wife present. He is then also listed as being in Stroud, Glous. with his wife Millie and a 1 month old son Harry. (In 1891 & 1901 this child has become Alfred) The fact he is in Stroud in 1881 should not be overlooked.
Jeremy

Hi Jeremy
Do you think that Harry became Alfred? We'd presume that Harry had died (perhaps while they were in Stroud) and that Alfred was the next born. I've found all of them in all censuses between 1871 and 1901 but have now come to a dead end. I will try your suggestion about investigating the Stroud connection - travelling etc. I hadn't noticed that Isaac is listed twice so I will re-visit that.
Thanks again
Katharine

[jeeb]

Hi Katherine,
All the evidence points to Harry and Alfred being the same person. I find it strange there is no birth registration for this child under any name in Gloucestershire, no death registration either which makes me feel that Harry is the same person on later censuses named Alfred.
There is a birth registered for Harris Jacobs in 1881 at Whitechapel that would fit but the 1891 census has a 10 year old Harris Jacobs born Whitechapel so I think this is more likely to be the one registered.
The 1881 census for Stroud has 18 year old Mark Jacobs, a tailor born Poland, living in the adjoining street to Isaac. The 1891 census has him back in London with a wife Kitty and two children born Stroud. The 1891 census gives a birthplace for Mark as Malawa Poland. He might be totally unrelated but its an avenue worth pursuing.

Jeremy

[maisiem]

Thanks Jeremy, that's really helpful

[Colin Moretti]

Hello Katherine

Have you seen this site?
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/galleries/roots/jewish/jewish.htm

There are some suggestions there for further research.

Colin

[maisiem]

Thanks Colin, I'll have a look
K

[maisiem]

You can order a copy of this via TNA and it may be worth obtaining for any additional information it contains.

Just to update: I've now recieved the naturalisation record for Barnett but unfortunately it's not the same guy. I can't find anything at all about the others so back to square one I guess.

[maisiem]

Have now discovered a little more info:

Ok, now know that Millie Hart's father was called Joseph Hart and he was a tailor(info from Millie's marriage certificate). The ages of the bride and groom are slightly differnent from ones I had. The revised DOBs are:

Isaac: 1854
Millie: 1856

One of the witnesses is called Marcus Hart (another relation I expect) and the other, Louis Isaacs.