Names changes

[SBSFamilyhistory]

I think I have a similar problem to Jane, my great grandmother had a child born in Birmingham Workhouse in 1870, her name is recorded on the birth certificate as Frances Byrd and she was supposed to have been born around 1843 according the subsequent census records 1871 onwards. However I cannot find a Frances Byrd anywhere in England on the 1851 or 1861 census records, she first appears on the 1871 cenus as a lodger with an 8 month old child. She married by g grandfather when the child was about 2. I have information on him but it Frances I would like to find so that I can take that line back.

I am probably never going to find her if she gave an assumed name.

[suedent]

Here is one candidate:

Sarah Bird Head W 43 Laundress Smethwick, Staff
Frances Bird Dau U 15 Gold Chain Maker Birmingham, Warwickshire
William Bird Son 11 Gold Chain Maker Birmingham, Warwickshire
Ann Hodgetts Mother W 72 Smethwick, Staff
Charles Hodgetts Lodger U 36 Birmingham, Warwickshire
Back of 84 Edward St, Ladywood, Birmingham, Warwickshire
RG9/2130 ED 16 Folio 91 Page 27 Sched 135

This may be her birth entry:
Births Jun 1846 Bird Frances Birmingham XVI 296 (may be 295)


When searching for people it's important to be fairly flexible with spellings. Many people were illiterate & the enumerator would have to guess at how the name was spelt.

[SBSFamilyhistory]

thanks Sue,

I think that it is probably her. The area is right for my fathers family I think the reason I didn't spot it was her year of birth, I put in 1843 + or - 2 years, perhaps 5 will be better from now on.

I have now found Frances on the 1851 Cenus.. listed as Fanny no less.

I used Grandmother Ann Hodgetts to find them

[Peter Goodey]

Two comments questions...

She married by g grandfather when the child was about 2

What did she give as a father's name and occupation on the marriage certificate?

I think that it is probably her

All respect to Sue who has done more work on your behalf than I have, but I'm wondering what your grounds are for assuming that this her. Your Frances seems to consistently give her place of birth as Uttoxeter (1871 and 1881 censuses)

[SBSFamilyhistory]

Two comments questions...



What did she give as a father's name and occupation on the marriage certificate?



All respect to Sue who has done more work on your behalf than I have, but I'm wondering what your grounds are for assuming that this her. Your Frances seems to consistently give her place of birth as Uttoxeter (1871 and 1881 censuses)

I have not seen her marriage certificate, but I have another piece of information about Frances, her son's birth certificate shows her name as Frances Ellen Byrd

[Peter Goodey]

Yes I saw it was Frances Ellen in the GRO index. But what do we do with that information?

I think part of your problem is that you're trying to jump over an essential step - getting the marriage certificate. You really do need to get the certificate.

Once you have the certificate, you'll have a father's name and occupation to work with (OK, it may turn out to be an imaginery name but that's a hurdle we can deal with in due course).

If you find that the father's name is Edward, you might feel like chasing up the entry in the IGI which shows the baptism of a Fanny Ellen BYRD on 26 Sep 1847 at Uttoxeter, daughter of Edward BYRD and Sarah

[Peter Goodey]

Just in case that one turns out to be of interest, Fanny Ellen BIRD and siblings seem to be in the Uttoxeter workhouse in 1851.

[SBSFamilyhistory]

I will ask Tony if he has seen her marriage certificate, as the child I have referred to was his garndfather

thanks Geoff.. gosh my family just "loved" the workhouse!

If this was my G Grandmother she was in Uttoxeter workhouse in 1851, and gave birth in Birmingham workhouse in 1870.

Her husband, Henry Brownley, born in Birkenhead was in Bromsgrove workhouse in 1851 with his mother, sister and brother. Henry's siblings both died in the workhouse.

ummm

[SBSFamilyhistory]

Yes I saw it was Frances Ellen in the GRO index. But what do we do with that information?

I think part of your problem is that you're trying to jump over an essential step - getting the marriage certificate. You really do need to get the certificate.

Once you have the certificate, you'll have a father's name and occupation to work with (OK, it may turn out to be an imaginery name but that's a hurdle we can deal with in due course).

If you find that the father's name is Edward, you might feel like chasing up the entry in the IGI which shows the baptism of a Fanny Ellen BYRD on 26 Sep 1847 at Uttoxeter, daughter of Edward BYRD and Sarah

I have been told by Tony, a distant cousin, whose grandfather was Herbert the illegitimate child that from Frances marriage certificate her father name was Edwin Bird as Henry and Frances did not marry unit 22/12/1872 there should be reference to her prior to this on the census, also they appear to have been Catholics as the Church they married in was St Phillips in Birmingham, the Catholic Cathedral. He is trying to get Frances Birth Certificate and will let me know if he finds it.

[SBSFamilyhistory]

I have sent Tony lots of question about frances marriage cert, waiting for a response

[SBSFamilyhistory]

Just in case that one turns out to be of interest, Fanny Ellen BIRD and siblings seem to be in the Uttoxeter workhouse in 1851.


Yes this is our Frances, she turns up in Hanbury Staffs as a Servant in 1861 and from there we knew, her mothers name was Sarah, maiden name as yet unknown.

[SBSFamilyhistory]

hello,

I have found inforamtion about Frances's parents. They were Edwin Byrd and Sarah Salt. Sarah died in 1848 so this would appear to be the reason that the children ended up in the workhouse.