Christmases of Long Ago

[v.wells]

I watched a fairly typical Christmas movie on the telly last night and after having input loads of data on my early 1800's line, I got to thinking what Christmas might have been really like back in the 1700-1800's.

Does any one have stories of memories that their ancestors may have written down. I know that most of us have seen countless "Christmas Carol"s and other such films, but was it really so? I know that the majority of people served it as a religious celebration, which is mostly lost today in western society. I am really interested in hearing true snippets. Does anyone have a story to share?

[Karen Newman]

I can't provide anything going back that far as my ancestors from those times were mainly illiterate.

But I can remember my great-uncle (b1906) telling me (when I was a small girl) that his father would buy a box of oranges on Christmas Eve (reduced of course) from the market. Each child got an orange for Christmas. Probably the only orange they had all year. There were 13 children. The eldest also got 5 pennies (polished until they shone), the next 4 pennies and so on.

When I pointed out that most of the children just got an orange and surely his parents should have given the eldest at least 13 pennies, so the youngest would have got one, he replied that they simply could not afford it. I was horrified. My great-uncle was matter of fact - that was just how it was. They were poor, and that was that.

My sister (a minister in the church) told that story to her Christmas Day congregation a couple of years ago (I was there). The children had been allowed to bring one present with them to the service: gameboys, dolls etc. The gasps of horror at the thought of getting just an orange..........

[v.wells]

I wonder when the tradition of giving presents actually started? Today's gift giving seems to be out of control! I can imagine the looong hours of making a meal on an ordinary day, I can't imagine how it must have been like to prepare a celebration meal. I remember when I was a young girl in the 50's the long hours my mother put in, chopping chestnuts, preparing Christmas pudding months ahead. At Christmas dinner we got a mandarin orange (which were expensive even then!) and a Christmas cracker. The stuff under the tree - each of us three got 1 new gift and the rest were second-hand. The simpler times were much better!

[busyglen]

When I was a young child (during the end of the war) my brothers and I had an orange, some nuts and old comics that had been passed down, all wrapped up and put into a pillowslip at the end of the bed. Believe it or not, we were quite excited to wake up in the morning to see what santa had bought. Also, we never had birthday presents, but always a card. Of course as time went on, things changed and we had small presents.

We used to make paper chains from pieces of paper that we coloured, or beads, which were strips of coloured paper wrapped around a knitting needle and dipped in paste. These were then threaded on string. So....not that long ago either!


Glenys

[Geoffers]

I wonder when the tradition of giving presents actually started?

I believe there was an old tradition of giving presents at New Year, which slowly changed to Christmas. Parson Woodforde, the Rector of Weston Longville in Norfolk kept a diary over much of his life, in 1783 he records for 25th Dec:

"This being Christmas Day I went to Church this Morn' and then read prayers and administered the Holy Sacrament. Mr and Mrs Custance both at Church and both received the Sacrament from my hands. The following poor old men dined at my Hosue to day, as usual, js Smith, Clerk, Richd Bates, Richd Buck, Thos Cary, Thos Ducker, Thos Cushing, Thos Carr - to each besides gave 1/0 (One Shilling). I gave them for dinner a Surloin of Beef rosted and plenty of plumb-pudding. We had mince pies for the first time to-day."

26th Dec 1786, Parson Woodforde records:
"To the Weston Ringers, their annual gift of 2/6. To my malsters man a Christmas Gift of 1/0. To my Blacksmiths son a Christmas Gift of 6d........"

Nearby in Horstead, the Rector Charles Grape notes on Boxing Day 1787 that he paid the singers 2/6, to the ringers 6d, and to his poor neighbours (i.e. those who occupied the nearby poor houses) "3 Stone of Beef & Two Damson Pies."


As for comparisons between what we have now and what folks had way back, my mind was drawn to the letters of Sidney Grapes to the Eastern Daily Press. He wrote humorous tales in Norfolk Dialect as 'The Boy John'. In 1954 he wrote something which sums it up, "If you are hard up, do without a few things our grandparents never dreamt about."

When I was a young child.........We used to make paper chains from pieces of paper that we coloured, or beads, which were strips of coloured paper wrapped around a knitting needle and dipped in paste. These were then threaded on string. So....not that long ago either!

Early 1990's wasn't it?

We used to do the same things, but a few years before then.

[Bo Peep]

There is a book on Parish Chest you may find interesting.

Christmas in Devon (http://www.parishchest.com/shop/index.php?cmd=listlinkeditems&cat=D4816&supplier=&breadcrumb=Bookshop%3AHistory+%3ADevonshire:Steven s+Books)

An examination of the changing ways in which Christmas has been celebrated throughout Devon. Entertaining, lavishly illustrated and highly original, this book looks at the celebration of Christmas over the last eight centuries. Told mostly in first hand accounts by Devon people, the collection includes personal reminiscences, newspaper reports, recipes, cards, cartoons, poems, short stories and documents. Subjects examined include, food, carols, decorations, yule logs, ashen faggots, mummers, Christmas cards, stained glass nativity scenes and presents

[busyglen]

Early 1990's wasn't it?

We used to do the same things, but a few years before then.

I wish Geoffers, it would be nice to be 17 again!.....or would it?

Glenys

[Pam Downes]

I wish Geoffers, it would be nice to be 17 again!.....or would it?

Glenys
Good grief, no. The pressure on teenagers, and even younger children, to conform and wear this item of clothing, and you must have this gadget/toy, etc, is completely out of hand.
My dad refused to have a TV in our house until I'd finished school (though I was allowed to go up the road to granny's to watch hers!). Imagine the uproar if you said that to a 5-year old today - let alone the language that you'd hear from a 10-year old. :eek:
Unless there is a huge turn-around in attitudes, I do not envy my grandson being a teenager. (He's not even started school yet!)
Pam

p.s. Apologies for going slightly off-topic

[v.wells]

BoPeep

I did order Devon in Christmas. The shipping costs were nearly as much as the book! They didn't have it at the Canadian site. Oh well. I will look forward to reading it when it arrives sometime after Christmas. I enjoy Christmas stories all year round.:D

[lizzee66]

When I began researching my family tree, my dad told me a story that had been told to him by his dad (my grandad). Grandad told dad that he had been an orphan since he was 5 or 6 yrs old and that he had been raised by his Aunts and Uncles. He said that his mother had died whilst preparing christmas dinner and "just died on chrismas day while serving up dinner". He then told dad that his father had then commited suicide because he could not face life without his wife. He apparently threw himself into the water at papplewick dam in nottinghamshire and drowned. I just could not believe this to be true! so I did some detective work and ordered death cert for my G Grandmother, and yes it was indeed true, she had died at dinner time on christmas day obviously while serving up the christmas dinner. Just shows you how stressful christmas time can be!! If it was'nt so tragic it would be funny. And yes G Grandfather did commit suicide. Some christmas in that house.

[v.wells]

! If it was'nt so tragic it would be funny . Some christmas in that house.

One of those "rumours" that you think can't possibly be true, but is! It is so sad to think of the heartbreak that Christmas. And in a strange way it is morbidly funny.

Merry Christmas Lizzie. Your dad carried on and brought us you!:D

[BeeE586]

My grandfather born in 1883 was at the younger end of a large and very poor family. He left school at 12 to go down the pit with his father. Being Derbyshire born he was familiar with the story of the Derby Ram and he said that he would get the yard broom, ride it like a hobby horse with the rag rug from the hearth over his back and with a group of others go round the local pubs reciting the verses in return for coppers, not for themselves but so that their mothers could get a little extra for Christmas. He too got an orange, an apple, a sugar mouse and sometimes a silver threepenny bit. The Christmas after his twelfth birthday (August) he got a new pair of pit boots after having worn his father's cast offs since starting work. He said he always saved the apple core and a bit of the apple to take to the pony he worked with underground.

Hard times indeed.

Eileen