Zachariah Read 1825

[sindylin]

I am having real trouble tracking this chap down on the 1841 and 1851 census returns. I know he was alive, and he was married in 1851 (I have tried under the wifes name too)

I have tried using wildcards and all the spellings I can think of..... (ie Read, Reed, Reid, Road etc Zaccariah, Zachariah, Zacharias etc....)

Can anyone with fresh eyes help?

this is the info:-
Zachariah Read born 1825 Chislet, Kent. Married to Sarah. Could be residing in either Kent or London area in 1841 and 51.

He was either a labourer or maybe he's started working as an engine driver by 1851.

Any help greatly appreciated.

thanks
Sindylin

[Neil Wilson]

Only a thought - Have you found him on the 1861 census? If so, try looking at the address in the 1851 census.

Try a wildcard on his surname *eed / *ead. in case it was transcribed wrong.

[sindylin]

Hi Neil,

Yes, I found him all the other census returns,

I'm not sure how you find someone via their address how do you do that?

I will also try the wildcards on the surname initial...I hadn't thought of that (doh!.....) as I said sometimes a fresh pair of eyes helps.

Many thanks

sindylin

[Geoffers]

Also, don't forget that in earlier census returns, inmates of workhouses, prisons, asylums, hospitals are sometimes just recorded by their initials. You may also find an age and place of birth in 1851.

[Peter Goodey]

I'm not sure how you find someone via their address how do you do that?

You have to box clever. Don't forget that people were finding their ancestors in census returns long before nationwide name indexes appeared.

I assume you're using the American thing that isn't indexed on address. Well, here's how to do it. You know where he was in 1861. Now you can look at the enumerator's description of the district. Use that to help orientate yourself and look for a similar description in 1851 which with luck will specifically mention the area you want.

To start you off, in 1861 the family is in Priory Street in District 4 in Tunbridge in Tonbridge in Kent.

Search > Census > UK Census Collection > 1861 England Census > Kent > Tonbridge > Tunbridge > District 4

In 1851, drill down in the opposite direction. Go to Kent, then Tonbridge, then Tunbridge. You won't expect the districts to be identical because the town was expanding and in this case you'll see the numbering scheme was different. Look through the descriptions until you find the right one. Then search through the enumeration book.

[Peter Goodey]

But...

I notice in the 1861 census that there's a 9 year old son born in "Wilsbro". I don't believe you mentioned him ;).

That age means he was probably born in 1851-52.

So have you checked whether the family were in Willesborough in the 1851 census?

PS. It may not be relevant but in case you didn't know, the East Ashford Union Workhouse was in Willesborough.

[Peter Goodey]

Sindylin

I'm back with some questions.

I see that the son's birth was registered. Presumably that means you have the certificate. What was the exact place of birth? Are there any other clues?

You say they were married in 1851. What are the details please?

[sindylin]

Hi Peter and Geoffers

To answer your questions.

I don't think they were in a workhouse, but it is possible especially as their son Alfred was born in March 1852 in Wilsboro' and you say that the workhouse was in Wilsborough. I don't have his certificate yet, as he isn't in my direct ancestral line and I can only afford so many a month :o

I have his younger sister Emma's born in 1858 which states they were living at Beaver Place, Ashford.

Zachariah and Sarah were married on 11th November 1849. Zachariah is listed as being of "Full age" and a bachelor, labourer and I think it says his place of residence is "Ramsgate" writing isn't too clear. Sarah was a servant of full age her place of residence looks like Westbell. I can find her on the 1841 census.

They married in the Parish Church of Westbell in the county of Kent in the district of Blean. Sarah's signature is indicated by her mark X

At some point they moved from Ramsgate to Ashford in around 1851 and I am just curious as to what Zachariah was doing in 1841 before he married Sarah hence my interest there.

Thanks for the hints on how to check via address, I use Ancestry which is ok, but not without its faults. I wish there was a simple address search function...make things really easy eh? ;)

Sindylin

[Peter Goodey]

Westbell

Westbere, presumably.

[sindylin]

yes....reckon so, after I sent last message I looked on google maps and found a westbere and its in the right area.

thanks

[Mike_E]

This is the closest I've found,

Name: Zachariah Reid
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St James Clerkenwell
Hundred: Ossulstone (Finsbury Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Occupation Gap Setter

Registration district: Clerkenwell
Sub-registration district: Pentonville
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
George Alderdice 27
Maria Alderdice 30
Edward Bradley 60
George Bromage 18
Zachariah Reid 18

[Sue Mackay]

I notice they had a son Alfred. Did he also have a brother Alfred? There is a 23 year old Alfred Read born in Chislett, Kent living as a lodger in Hawkesbury Road, Dover in 1851.

HO107; Piece: 1632; Folio: 599; Page: 21

[sindylin]

Yes, Zachariah had a brother and a son called Alfred.

In fact Zachariah's daughter Emma and Alfred's son George married eachother!

sindylin

[sindylin]

Hi Mike,

that could be him, do you know what his occupation as a gap setter is all about? I know the dob is out by a few years but this often happens doesn't it?

sindylin

[MikeRead]

I have just come across your posts relating to Zachariah Read from 2007. My great great grandfather was Zachariah's brother Alfred Read and as you know Alfreds son George married Zachariah's daughter Emma. I just wondered whether you had ever succesfully tracked Zachariah down in either of the 1841 or 1851 census?

Mike

[sindylin]

Hi Mike,

We've spoken before, you contacted me recently! Hello again!

In answer to your question, no I haven't been able to find Zachiariah on the 1841 and 1851 census returns.

I presume you have tried to track him down as well without luck?

sindylin

[MikeRead]

Hi Lin,

Sorry I just didn't make the connection; I must have been distracted by the photo - you look so young!!

Zachariah was of course an engine driver like his brother Alfred so perhaps in 1841 and 1851 he was learning his trade and could have been stationed (!) anywhere in the South East of England. Alfred worked for the London and South Eastern Railway - I don't suppose that you have come across any information as to whether Zachariah worked for the same company?

Mike

[sindylin]

Hi Mike

Sorry I havent got back to you for ages, but I haven't spent much time on family history, things have been a bit manic!!

Did you have any luck in tracing Zachariah in the 1841 and 1851 Census returns. I had a look the other day on a site that claimed to have some missing entries and he wasn't there either.


Have you made any further progress with the Read Clan?


sindy(Lin)

[MikeRead]

Hi Lin,
Like you I have not had much time for family research in the lead up to Christmas and no luck in tracking down Zachariah's whereabouts in 1841 or 1851.
I am still planning a trip down to North Kent in February to visit Chislet and the area around Reculver where so many Reads appear to have either come from or settled. I don't expect to find much new information but it would be interesting to see if there are any gravestones in Chislet Churchyard that have the name Read and also just to check out the area generally.

Having spent years trying to find out information about my Read ancestry with literally no information beyond my own father it is amazing to have now uncovered such a large amount of information with part of the Read family connection extending as far as Australia.

Anyway good hunting in 2010 and if there are any Read reunions planned please let me know. I will certainly stay in touch and share with you any new and 'startling' information that I might uncover and hope you will do likewise.
All the best,

Mike

[sindylin]

Hi Mike,

Glad you have found so much info. The Read family is rather large in places, several generations had several children who went on to have several children as well. There are quite a lot of us descendants all doing "our bit" and collating the info and having reunions when we can and will let you know when the next one is, the more the merrier!

I am lucky that my grandmother and her sisters are so knowledgable and kept many photos and memorabilia. Although they are now in thier 90's and not so "with it" as they were but they have their moments of inspiration and remember things. Sadly, the oldest one who was 100 in April 2009 died just before Christmas. Despite her age she was still going dancing each week and was, generally, in good health, however a cold had turned into a bronchial infection and which antibiotics couldn't cure. We are just glad that she made it to 100 and that we had a party for her in April. We took loads of photos of the occasion too. Despite her age and having a "good innings" she will be sadly missed she was somewhat of a legend in the family.

Last week me and my dad and his cousin and family went to sort the house out (she still lived on her own, refusing any help from Social services) Although she had had to downsize a few years ago when she moved, she had kept many old photos and documents including two Driving licences from 1968 to 1975, a birthday book and address book. All were a wealth of information. One photo,a framed one is of her father in his 50's which I now have. I remember him from my youth as he lived to 97 and died in 1982. He's the one whos hat I am trying to ID on another thread.

We had planned to visit Kent too at some point, but it was difficult to arrange with us all leading such busy lives! I would be interested to hear about what you find. The places that have cropped up most are St Nicholas a Wade, Chislet and Reculver if that helps.

Anyhow, I will certainly keep in touch and will let you know when the next reunion is.

All the best
Lin

[SBSFamilyhistory]

They are not in Priory Road in Tunbridge in 1851 I have checked the whole street.

There is a read family but they are a Hannah and James so not yours.

Sue

[sindylin]

Hi Sue,

Thanks for checking that for us. Had a feeling he wouldn't be there though as I have him living at 4 Beaver Place,Ashford on 30th July 1958, this was taken from his oldest daughter's birth certificate. (my GG Grandmother, Emma) and the oldest child, a son called Alfred was born c1852 at Wilsborough, Kent.

In 1861 he was at 173 Priory Street, Tonbridge. In c1865 the youngest daughter Louisa was born in New Cross, London.

1871-1891 he was in Plumstead, finally dying in Wimbledon in 1896.

He married his wife Sarah Port in Westbere, Kent in 1849, and he was baptised in Chislet also in Kent on Christmas Day in 1825. His wife died in Wandsworth in 1910 so didn't make it to the 1911 census which is a shame.

Both Mike and I and several other Read descendants have tried to trace him in 1841 and 1851 but have had no luck.....most strange.

sindylin

[MikeRead]

Hi Lin,

As you say, some sections of the Read family did seem to produce very large families which does make it quite complicated to research particularly when the same names keep cropping up all the time (Alfreds, Fredericks, Williams etc.) And my family tree has great difficulty accommodating the fact that cousins Emma and George married each other but I guess in such a large family we can be thankful that there was just the one occurrence of cousins marrying (so far as I know anyway!). What it means of course is that both Alfred Read and Zachariah Read are your great great great grandfathers (an obvious fact which I have only just grasped) so you kind of have a 'double whammy' of Read ancestry!
In reading back over previous e-mails I notice that you said in an e-mail dated 18th October that Emma and George had 11 children whereas I have only details of 7 i.e. William, Walter, George, Florence, Alfred, Ivy and Albert. Who were the other 4?
Also what can you tell me about your great grandfather George Frederick. What was his date of death (was it 1982?) and how many children did he have? Presumably your grandmothers sister who died last year was one of them. I see that you have a photograph of Frederick which I would be very interested to see a copy of some time. Bit confused by your comment "he's the one whose hat I am trying to ID on another thread" Either a typo or a very important hat!!

All the best.

Mike

[sindylin]

Hi Mike,

I will email you with the details ok?

[MikeRead]

That would be great. Look forward to hearing from you. Mike