Birth Certificate

[Sunpat]

I am about to order a birth certificate of my ggrandmother, Kate Smith, born 10/12/1876 registered Witney December Quarter 3a 710.
I see, from other posts, that giving too much information can cause a problem when ordering certificates and I wonder if the information I noted above plus mother and father's names is what is required?
All advice is very welcome.
Sunpat

[Geoffers]

I only provide the information exactly as it appears in the GRO index - except - when a name occurs fairly frequently - let's give an example SMITH! Then you can request that the certificate only be sent to you if it confirms other information you provide - such as parents' names.

If the certificate does not meet the criteria you set, you will be charged a small fee, but will not be charged the full cost of the certificate.

[Peter Goodey]

If you're sure that's the one you need, I wouldn't enter anything except Kate Smith Witney 1876 December Witney 3a 710.

That's all that's required.

[Sunpat]

Thank you, Peter and Geoffers.
I've ordered the certificate, here's hoping it's 'my' Kate:)
I'll let you know when it comes through - estimated posting date is given as the 12th December.
Sunpat

[Sunpat]

Sadly, no certificate.
Reasons given, by GRO, were; "the date of birth was not the 10/12/1876 and the mother's maiden name was not Day".
I assume that I made a mistake in giving the mother's maiden name but, obviously, I don't have the correct birth date.
I would greatly appreciate advice on 'what next'.
Sunpat

[Peter Goodey]

I think it might be best if you restate the problem indicating the source of the date of birth and indeed the locality. Come to that are you looking for Kate or Catherine or some other variant?

[Sunpat]

Thank you, Peter.
The information I have for Kate was in a previous post, which you helped me with - "Witney marriage of William SMITH" concerning the (possible) marriage of her parents.
Kate is recorded in the 1901 Census, for Charlbury, Oxon as;
Kate E. (born Crawley) aged 26, wife of James PICKETT.
Am I best to reapply for the birth certificate using only this;
"Kate Smith Witney 1876 December Witney 3a 710"?
Thank you again for your help and, especially, your patience.
Sunpat

[Peter Goodey]

As I said in my earlier post, if that's the one you want, don't enter any more than the bare minimum. But now there's a doubt whether that is the one you want.

If it were me I'd go for big brother Isaac's birth certificate because the forename is less common and less likely to be shown as a nickname.

Once you have confirmed Isaac's parents, you could go for Kate's certificate.

[Sunpat]

Thank you again, Peter.
Do you have any of the information I would need to apply for Isaac's birth certificate?
I have nothing about 'my' Smith family in the 1800s beyond that which I have been so generously given.
Sunpat

[Geoffers]

Reasons given, by GRO, were; "the date of birth was not the 10/12/1876 and the mother's maiden name was not Day".


I wouldn't include the date of birth - if that has come from another source, even though that other source is correct; believe it or not, it may still not agree with the birth certificate. Also, I would not include mother's maiden name as a check - mum may have been married twice, and in the birth certificate just recorded her birth or married name (or you may have incorrectly identified the mother's maiden name from another source).

So, looking at your problem:

1) Do you have the marriage certificate for James PICKETT? There appears a possible match in Dec 1895

2) If the lass you are after is Kate Ellen SMITH, I see that there are two possible entries on the GRO index:

Dec 1876 Kate SMITH
Mar 1878 Ellen SMITH

The Ellen mentioned seems to be living in Hailey in 1881 so I would guess that entry you want is Kate - so you might apply for a certificate with just the father's name as a check (from kate's marriage certifiacte)

Alternatviely apply for a certificatge of one of her siblings - most of whom have forenames that occur fairly frequently, which when combined with SMITH doesn't help you. However, thank heavens for Isaac born c.1872!
For whom there is only one matching entry in the GRO index - in Dec 1871, Witney Vol 3a page 660

If it was me, I'd plump for Isaac's certificate and just to try and remove any doubts, apply for Kate's certificate as well (aren't I generous with your money ;)) - but without asking for any information to be checked.

(I see Peter replied with much the same before me, but in a less long-winded manner)

[Peter Goodey]

He's in FreeBMD

Births Dec 1871

Smith Isaac Witney 3a 660

[Sunpat]

Thank you so much, Geoffers and Peter |bowdown|
I will follow your suggestions and look forward to an answer to my Kate problem along with the bonus of ordering Isaac's certificate.:)
Sunpat

[Peter Goodey]

I look on Isaac as step on the way towards Kate ;)

[Sunpat]

My daughter kindly obtained James and Kate 's marriage certificate - we assumed that their fathers' names would be on the document - but no name is given for Kate's father.
We are wondering, why would this be, was it a common occurrence?
Sunpat

[suedent]

Hi Sunpat,
it was quite common. It generally means that Kate was illegitimate. Another, less likely, possibility is that her father died/abandoned the family when she was very young and she just didn't know his name.

[Wilkes_ml]

I have had to obtain 3 siblings birth certificates before I managed to get the correct mother's maiden name. On my ancestors birth, and the two previous siblings she just gave her maiden name of Cornwell - it was only on her first child's certificate that she thought to put "Late Bull formerly Cornwell"!! (I found her first marriage to Mr. Bull but still never found her socond one!)

Again, with common names especially in London, using a sibling with a less common first name can help narrow down the search.

Just one point to note: if the marriage certificate does not have a father's name, this would often suggest illigitimacy. If that is the case, then Kate's birth may have been registered under a different surname to subsequent step-siblings if her mother married after her birth!

[Sunpat]

I contacted a relative - Kate and James' youngest son b. 1918 - and he has both of their birth certificates.
Kate was born on 7th September 1876 (I had her birth date as 10th December) and her father's name was William. |jumphappy
I should have have contacted him earlier (as Janiegirl had suggested to me) and would have saved a lot of head scratching and a bit of money on certificates.
Kate's mother's name was Elizabeth and my great aunt thinks Ainfield is the maiden surname recorded on the birth cert. - she is going to send me copies.
James' date of birth is 16th January 1874, his father is George Walter Pickett and his mother Mary Ann ms Taylor - more information for our family tree and a big leap forward.
A big thank you to everyone.
Sunpat