WW1? met office? old photo need dating. uniform??

[louise ydw i]

This photograph was found behind another photo which had been in a frame for a couple of decades. It was behind a family portrait of William H Ivins and Alice Morgan that was taken about 1912. My grandfather remembers the family photo been hung on the wall of his parents house for years but he had no idea of this photo or who they all? We're thinking its to do with the RAF but it has a sign about the meteorological office stores? Completely baffles me. Any clues anyone?
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff98/louiseydwi/Img0021.jpg

[Neil Wilson]

This photograph was found behind another photo which had been in a frame for a couple of decades. It was behind a family portrait of William H Ivins and Alice Morgan that was taken about 1912. My grandfather remembers the family photo been hung on the wall of his parents house for years but he had no idea of this photo or who they all? We're thinking its to do with the RAF but it has a sign about the meteorological office stores? Completely baffles me. Any clues anyone?

Members of the met office were either seconded in to the RAF during WWII. I sure MikeE will agree with this, currently when on detachment to RAF bases overseas, they wear RAF officer uniform.
Check out http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/history/

[Geoffers]

The notice looks to have GR written on it, presumably George VI??, which narrows things down to 1938-52.

I cannot make out what the board says, can you read it on the original photo? Does it give any clues?

[Neil Wilson]

The uniforms are different.
The 2 officers are aircrew (ex).
The Warrant Officer look like he has wrong cap badge or when did they change?
The one on the left with the book infornt of him has a old 'good conduct' stripe.
The back centre in uniform as new style of rank (Leading aircraftsman) and signaller insigna.

And they seem to be sitting on sand?

Any details from the book would help.

[Mike_E]

The back centre in uniform as new style of rank (Leading aircraftsman) and signaller insigna.

Leading Aircraftsman.
"Introduced in 1918 as a trade classification having no disciplinary powers over lower tradesmen. It became a part of the RAF 'supervisory' rank structure on 1 January 1951."

The WO, if his badge is just a crown, which is what it looks like to me, then this was Introduced in 1918 for all trades. Discontinued in 1939, and replaced by a large badge.

But this guy is also wearing a trade badge, like I wore, but I don't know when this was introduced.

The chap on the left looks like he is a Civilian Volunteer, they were know to be issued with RAF Uniform, but with black bakelite buttons, and the cap badge was different, CTC (civilian tech corps) ? Don't think these have anything to do with the met Office, I think they worked in "Ground Radio" the people who looked after the Radar and Communications equipment used on Airfields.

[louise ydw i]

I cannot make out what the board says, can you read it on the original photo? Does it give any clues?

Cannot read anything on the board. This is actually showing the picture better if anything. The 'sand' bit is odd. I did think they were pictured overseas. But why would someone put a photograph like this behind another? It wouldnt be so difficult if I knew anyone in the picture. But my grandfather and an elderly aunt dont know either. Is there any where on the web where I can post it for other to see?

Thanks for all your info

[louise ydw i]

The notice looks to have GR written on it, presumably George VI??, which narrows things down to 1938-52.

What about the reign of George V? 1910-1936?

[Mike_E]

What about the reign of George V? 1910-1936?

I much prefer Geoffers idea of 38-52, given the number or medal ribbons the chap in the centre is wearing. Anyone agree with that?

I'm sure I've seen that chap in the middle with the helmet on before. Don't know if it was in an RAF news in the early 80's. I've also seen a few of those silly hats too, we had one on the Sqn at Wattisham, it had a blue flashing light on it.

You might want to send it off ( electronic version) to the RAF, they might print it in the RAF News and you might get some results from that.

[louise ydw i]

Thanks Mike. WW2 then! I've just sent it to the RAF association so fingers crossed, they'll be able do something with it.

[Davran]

But why would someone put a photograph like this behind another?


Maybe they bought the framed photo to use the frame and didn't bother to remove the old photo? Very frustrating for you. We have several old photos from WWI with no idea of who's in them - all to do with my husband's grandfather, who died in 1981.

[Neil Wilson]

Louise
Is there anything on the back of the photograph?
Normally RAF photographs are stamped with location, date etc.
If there is no stamp, it might not be an official, but one taken by a member of the group or colleague. With the 'unofficial' headgear, I guess it might not be, but seeing some of the official ones I have been in, it could well be, you never know.
Neil

[Mutley]

Just a silly thought but are you sure the sign reads
"Meteorological office" stores. The hat obscures the beginning of the word.

This link in an online dictionary gives words ending in
"ological"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/e/ological+


There are loads, you have mentioned sand, what about Egyptological?

Our forces were in Egypt. There are many other possibilities

[Neil Wilson]

Just a silly thought but are you sure the sign reads
"Meteorological office" stores. The hat obscures the beginning of the word.

Mutt - Trust Mike and me on this one, us ex RAF people think we know a bit about the working of the skies or more importantly, what buildings on the ground were we could get a cuppa. Anyway, didn't you use a Met Office when you were trying to 'catch that crazy pigeon' |laugh1|

[louise ydw i]

The board on the floor definitely reads 'Meteorological Stores'. The photograph is actually glued onto a board, a bit like a mount with a frame. I have attempted to peel it off but it would only rip so I have no idea whats on the back. Nothing is written on the back of the board either.

Whats that about a pigeon?! :)

[Neil Wilson]

Whats that about a pigeon?! :)Joke - about the cartoon and Dastardy and Mutley never catching the pigeon.

[Mutley]

With the amount of London villians I seem to have in my lot I avoid, whenever possible, any mention of 'The Met.'

Pigeons ???

"Mutley, you snickering, floppy eared hound.
When courage is needed, you're never around.
Those medals you wear on your moth-eaten chest
Should be there for bungling at which you are best."

That's me:D

[Neil Wilson]

With the amount of London villians I seem to have in my lot I avoid, whenever possible, any mention of 'The Met.'


:D I will mention your name when I see a Met man (PC Plod)tonight. :D

[Peter_uk_can]

I have been asking around about this photograph. I love old photo mysteries..

The rectangular white things are quite possibly Cartographers rulers, which would be used with the Meteorology. The details of the uniforms seems to place it at some time after about 1922, but again opinions differ but it seems that is is more likely to be post WW1 because of the design of the RAF uniform.

The man to the right in civvies, is wearing a white hat, which is thought to be in keeping with perhaps an Eastern or African location. Somewhere warm anyway. Apparently there is also a lack of turnups on the trousers which I was told was quite common for soldiers in far eastern postings because of the sand and dust.

The gentleman seated in the centre certainly has a far eastern look about him. His "helmet" has an antenna on the top and there are electrical leads hanging down.

One suggestion has been something to do with the link between meteorology and either field guns or anti aircraft guns. This may explain why there are RAF and Army personel.

If anything further comes my way I will be only too pleased to pass it on.

[Lenore]

I wonder how you got on with the photo?

I don't know anything at all about RAF uniforms, or badges, medals, hats or meteorological instruments. My two bob's worth concerns the mountboard of the photo, which is an early style (is it grey?) which would be pre-war (WW2). The other salient feature is the double-breasted jacket and the tall-crowned hat and wide hatband on the civilian - 1930s for my money.

Best wishes,

Lenore