Son 'Dallimore' mother 'Culverwell' and single! How? Why?

[louise ydw i]

I've been frustrated for many months about my x3 great grandfather, William H Dallimore I know he was born in 1844 Shepton Mallet. 1851 census shows him with his mother Elizabeth Culverwell stating she was single. 1861 shows him living with an aunt in monmouthshire (wife of his father's deceased brother) 1864 marries in frome, 1871, 1881, 1891, 1901 back in Monmouthshire.
Now, I follow his life fine, BUT in 1891 his mother is living with him as Elizabeth Brown! So, I searched for a record of Elizabeth Culverwell marrying a Brown but without any luck, SO.....I thought I'd look for her as Dallimore and low and behold there she was. Married a John Brown in Frome in 1856, lived together in 1861 census. Now, I've racked my brains and now they've just turned to mush!:confused:
She went from being 'Elizabeth Culverwell' - single, then 'Elizabeth Dallimore' to 'Elizabeth Brown', only no record of her marrying a 'Dallimore' although there is a record of a William Dallimore marrying in 1844, shepton mallet but a female is missing!!! I have William H Dallimore's marriage certificate which states his father was also William Dallimore (doesnt say deceased i may add) and that was in 1864. So how come Elizabeth supposidley remarried in 1856 when her 'husband' was still alive?
I've think i've just confused myself some more so I dont doubt those who read this are saying 'what the hell?'
I've read some posting about divorce but sounds unlikely. Also, I've searched indexes after indexes and cant find a birth record of william H Dallimore 1844 Shepton Mallet nor ANYTHING about Elizabeth Culverwell.
I have no idea where to look next. ANY suggestion greatly welcomed. I'm thinking of heading to Shepton Mallet to see what I can find, but it's a little difficult with three young kids....

[Trish]

I've been frustrated for many months about my x3 great grandfather, William H Dallimore I know he was born in 1844 Shepton Mallet. 1851 census shows him with his mother Elizabeth Culverwell stating she was single. 1861 shows him living with an aunt in monmouthshire (wife of his father's deceased brother) 1864 marries in frome, 1871, 1881, 1891, 1901 back in Monmouthshire.
Now, I follow his life fine, BUT in 1891 his mother is living with him as Elizabeth Brown! So, I searched for a record of Elizabeth Culverwell marrying a Brown but without any luck, SO.....I thought I'd look for her as Dallimore and low and behold there she was. Married a John Brown in Frome in 1856, lived together in 1861 census. Now, I've racked my brains and now they've just turned to mush!:confused:
She went from being 'Elizabeth Culverwell' - single, then 'Elizabeth Dallimore' to 'Elizabeth Brown', only no record of her marrying a 'Dallimore' although there is a record of a William Dallimore marrying in 1844, shepton mallet but a female is missing!!! I have William H Dallimore's marriage certificate which states his father was also William Dallimore (doesnt say deceased i may add) and that was in 1864. So how come Elizabeth supposidley remarried in 1856 when her 'husband' was still alive?
I've think i've just confused myself some more so I dont doubt those who read this are saying 'what the hell?'
I've read some posting about divorce but sounds unlikely. Also, I've searched indexes after indexes and cant find a birth record of william H Dallimore 1844 Shepton Mallet nor ANYTHING about Elizabeth Culverwell.
I have no idea where to look next. ANY suggestion greatly welcomed. I'm thinking of heading to Shepton Mallet to see what I can find, but it's a little difficult with three young kids....Whew. You don't say if you have looked for William's father in the censuses -- have you?

I'm certainly no authority on what happened in those times but I would think it would have been relatively easy to marry again without tying off pesky loose ends [like existing spouses].

Trish

[louise ydw i]

Hi Trish, thanks for taking the time to read my long drawn out problemo.

Yes, I have tried looking for Williams father in all census' but to no avail. Problem is I have no idea of his birth. All I have from William marriage certificate is his name and profession - William Dallimore, Cordwainer. Not exactly a lot to go on.

[Geoffers]

I've been frustrated for many months about my x3 great grandfather, William H Dallimore I know he was born in 1844 Shepton Mallet. 1851 census shows him with his mother Elizabeth Culverwell stating she was single.

Is the birth inferred from census or do you have his birth certificate or a baptism in a parosh register?

So, I searched for a record of Elizabeth Culverwell marrying a Brown but without any luck...I'd look for her as Dallimore and low and behold there she was. Married a John Brown in Frome in 1856, lived together in 1861 census......She went from being 'Elizabeth Culverwell' - single, then 'Elizabeth Dallimore' to 'Elizabeth Brown', only no record of her marrying a 'Dallimore'

Did Elizabeth at any time live with a William DALLIMORE or claim him to be her husband? This could well explain her marrying with that name - but when she married Mr BROWN, was she single, or widowed?

Not everyone who lived together and claimed to be married, was actually wed. Perhaps William DALLIMORE (the alleged father) was married to someone else and Elizabeth was his bit on the side?

although there is a record of a William Dallimore marrying in 1844, shepton mallet but a female is missing!!!


I take it that this is from freebmd? The GRO index does not record a corresponding entry for a CULVERWELL.

I have William H Dallimore's marriage certificate which states his father was also William Dallimore (doesnt say deceased i may add) and that was in 1864. So how come Elizabeth supposidley remarried in 1856 when her 'husband' was still alive?

Husbands abandoned wives

Husbands sold wives

Some marriage certificates do not record accuratge information. The name of the father may be made up (or a different relative) and/or he may have died and it is just not recorded for want of the officiating minster asking the qeustion.

Also, I've searched indexes after indexes and cant find a birth record of william H Dallimore 1844 Shepton Mallet nor ANYTHING about Elizabeth Culverwell.

Have you tried variant spellings of DALLIMORE? Have you tried to see if he is recorded under CULVERWELL? Several possible entries on the GRO index around Bridgewater and Taunton between 1840 and 1848 (Census returns do not always show correct places of birth, or ages)

[Geoffers]

Yes, I have tried looking for Williams father in all census' but to no avail. Problem is I have no idea of his birth. All I have from William marriage certificate is his name and profession - William Dallimore, Cordwainer. Not exactly a lot to go on.

Being a cordwainer, he may show up in a directory

He may have had anotehr forename and switched between the two (e.g. William Joh,n called William in one part of his life, John in another - it can get confusing).

Several Williams in the 1841 census who are not too far away

William 63, Frome - HO107/942/11 f11 p14
William 30, Nunney - HO107/942/18 f18 p6
William 25, East Harptree - HO107/967/13 f13 p5
William 25, Chewton Mendip - HO107/939/3 f3 p29

[louise ydw i]

Is the birth inferred from census or do you have his birth certificate or a baptism in a parosh register?)

I havent got his birth certificate - cant seem to find a record, however every census says he was born in 1844, shepton mallet

Did Elizabeth at any time live with a William DALLIMORE or claim him to be her husband? This could well explain her marrying with that name - but when she married Mr BROWN, was she single, or widowed?)

No Elizabeth living with a William Dallimore - I only have a census record of her with Mr Brown.

Not everyone who lived together and claimed to be married, was actually wed. Perhaps William DALLIMORE (the alleged father) was married to someone else and Elizabeth was his bit on the side?)

Could explain the earlier census of her as Culverwell and single. Was it common back then for an illegimate child to have the fathers last name?

I take it that this is from freebmd? The GRO index does not record a corresponding entry for a CULVERWELL.)

I got it from ancestry.

Have you tried variant spellings of DALLIMORE? Have you tried to see if he is recorded under CULVERWELL? Several possible entries on the GRO index around Bridgewater and Taunton between 1840 and 1848 (Census returns do not always show correct places of birth, or ages)

Oh my god, you wont believe how many spelling variants of Dallimore I have tried. Are you talking about the son or the father recorded under culverwell? I havent tried either - I have all census records of the son as Dallimore.

I think I need to do a bit more work. I guess I havent looked at all possibilites. Sometimes you miss the obvious, Thanks

[louise ydw i]

What directory should I be looking in?

Elizabeth Culverwell was born in 1822 so I've got sort of time frame for William Dallimore (father) birth. But, that's making assumptions I suppose which I know is wrong.


William 63, Frome - HO107/942/11 f11 p14
William 30, Nunney - HO107/942/18 f18 p6
William 25, East Harptree - HO107/967/13 f13 p5
William 25, Chewton Mendip - HO107/939/3 f3 p29

What are letter and numbers after the names? **Excuse me if I appear stupid**:o

[Geoffers]

What directory should I be looking in?

There were various trade and street directories in the 19th and 20th centuries. In the 1830's there is Pigot's, later you get White's, Kelly's, Post Office, etc. You can find copies for sale on CD-rom from www.parishchest.com (http://www.parishchest.com)

Elizabeth Culverwell was born in 1822 so I've got sort of time frame for William Dallimore (father) birth. But, that's making assumptions I suppose which I know is wrong.

Not completely - I usually work out something similar to begin with, e.g. Eliszabeth born 1822, dad must have been born 1804 or earlier; initial search period then might be 1784-1804. But if I find nothing which might match I expand what I'm looking for.

What are letter and numbers after the names? **Excuse me if I appear stupid**:o

Asking questions does not make anyone look stupid - not asking is what makes people look silly.

The letters and numbers are a reference to help find the original census return. They act like an address.

The first bit before the oblique stroke is the class reference. For 1841 and 1851 this is HO107 (the census was then administered by the Home Office, hence HO).

The country was split into lots of districts and each was given a number. This is the four digit number after the oblique stroke and is known as the 'piece'. In 1841 (not in later censuses), after the district number, there is a second number which you can think of as a sub-district number.

Each census enumerator handed out schedules to each house in his area, he collected them back and entered the detail in a book with numbered pages. Several books were bound together (think of them like chapters in a larger volume) - as each book had a page number, every other page (folio) was stamped with a number - so you get a folio number and a page number.

Thus a complete census reference consists of a class number, piece number, folio and page. Later census return have nuimbered schedules in the left hand column, which are sometimes included in a reference, but it is not absolutely necessary.

So, HO107 (class number) / 942/11 (piece number), f(olio)11 p(age)14 takes to to the page where an entry is shown.

In 1861 the class numbers changed slightly as the Registrar General took over running the census. So for 1861 the class number is RG9, for 1871, RG10, 1881 it is RG11, etc.

If typing a census return, The National Archives (TNA) has relinquished copyright provided the full reference is given.

That is a very basic precis - I hope it makes sense, but if not don't feel silly to ask

[Geoffers]

I havent got his birth certificate - cant seem to find a record, however every census says he was born in 1844, shepton mallet

He may have grown up believing he was born then in Shepton, but was actually born elsewhere - census returns do not always show the truth. For example in my family in 1841 a chap was married to Ann, born in the county(Norfolk), in 1851 the same chap was married to Elizabeth (born Essex) - not unreasonably I thought Ann had died and he had remarried, turns out he married once to Elizabeth Ann. In another I have a George Robert, who joined the Navy as George and married as Robert. Similarly be flexible with the year of birth.

Could explain the earlier census of her as Culverwell and single. Was it common back then for an illegimate child to have the fathers last name?

I wouldn't say common as in it happened all of the time, but I can turn to quite a few entries where someone was born illegitimate, their birth registered with the father's name, the child baptised with the mother's maiden name. The child then being recorded with both surnames through his life - as mentioned above, be flexible.

Are you talking about the son or the father recorded under culverwell?

I was thinking specifically of William junior born about 1844-ish.

In the early years of civil registration, some people did avoid registering the birth of their children, the alternative place to look is in parish registers - and in the case of the poor, workhouses. You may need to try both

You may at this point be wondering how anyone ever finds anything out about their family and wishing you taken up a different hobby such as wine drinking in southern France. Stick with it, there's usually an answer there - it just takes some digging.

[Copper]

I have searched the Free BMD site for the marriage of William Dallymore etc in about 1844 and only found one in Frome!

I then searched for the birth of William Dallymore etc in about 1844 and found this one

1844 Mar William Dallymore, Shepton Mallet 10 461

I checked this on the scan on the Free BMD site and the above is correct except the volme number is X not 10. I like to be precise :D

[louise ydw i]

Thanks copper for doing a search. Is there anyway, (other than purchasing a copy of a marriage certificate of William Dallimore 1844 Frome) to finding out who he married? or this my only option? See, i think it makes sense that this is the marriage i need - father marrying 1844, child born 1844, frome and shepton mallet i beleive are not that far apart. Correct me if I'm wrong

I've never had such a difficult one before now. And I havent had to go this far afield for info. I've been lucky that the majority of my ancestors lived within 40 miles of me!!

[Copper]

As you don't know exactly where this marriage took place, your only option is to buy the certificate to find the name of the bride.

Two points here

1) All we know is that a William Dallimore married in the registration district of Frome. Possibly the bride's parish. I can't remember if the Frome registration district includes a number of places or just Frome.

2) If you search the indexes on the Free BMD site rather than the "A" site you get some useful information. When you find a possible event but you are unsure of which places are within that district, you can click on the district and you get a box where you can click yet again for details of that district.

I hope that last bit makes sense.

[Geoffers]

1) All we know is that a William Dallimore married in the registration district of Frome. Possibly the bride's parish. I can't remember if the Frome registration district includes a number of places or just Frome.

There are 30-plus parishes in Frome district

There appear (from freebmd) to be four marriages recorded on the page, the four brides being: Hannah BRAY, Mary Ann BUTTON, Charlotte Charles CRABB, Emma HAWKINS. So this William will have married one of them. Can you identify any of them in the 1851/61 census with William as a shoemaker?

Perhaps this William was a bit of a bounder, had a fling with Elizabeth and then dumped her to marry someone else.....the cad.