Lookups for Grenville, Ontario

[birdlip]

Hi there,

there is a death record for James Phair, registered in Aug 1890, in Grenville, Ontario. I'm wondering if some kind soul can do a lookup for any earlier mention of him in the area, census etc. He was a printer/compositor by trade, b abt 1824 Ireland.

many thanks, birdlip

[Procat]

Hi Birdlip,

Ancestry only has Canadian census for 1851, 1901, 1906 and 1911 and he does not appear.

He does not appear in the Canadian Immigrant records or the Canadian Border Crossings.

There is an Ontario Canada Census Index for 1871. However, this index only contains the names of the heads of household and those individuals who had surnames that differed from the head of household's (for example, a servant or mother-in-law).

There are two James Phairs:

Name: James Phair
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Ireland

Residence District: Russell
Residence Location: Osgoode
Ethnic Origin: Irish
Religion: Canada Presbyterian / C. Presbyterian
Occupation: Farmer
Division: 1
Microfilm Roll: C-10012 - C-10013
Page: 50
Head of Household Comment: This person is listed as a head of household

The only other Phair in Osgoode is:

Name: John Phair
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Ontario

Residence District: Russell
Residence Location: Osgoode
Ethnic Origin: Irish
Religion: Baptist
Occupation: Shoemaker
Division: 1
Microfilm Roll: C-10012 - C-10013
Page: 61
Head of Household Comment: This person is listed as a head of household.

Name: James Phair
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Ireland

Residence District: Waterloo North
Residence Location: Wellesley
Ethnic Origin: Irish
Religion: Church of England, Anglican
Occupation: Farmer
Division: 2
Microfilm Roll: C-9943 - C-9944
Page: 49
Head of Household Comment: This person is listed as a head of household.

There are no other Phairs in Wellesley.

[birdlip]

Hi Procat, thanks very much for such a thorough look.

My James Phair was always a printer, as far as I know. The other Phair's there may have been relatives though, he could have been visiting.

Many thanks anyway, regards birdlip

[Mary Anne]

birdlip

Try the Leeds & Grenville Branch of Ontario Genealogical Society in Brockville http://www.leedsandgrenvillegenealogy.com/. If you send them a speicific enquiry, someone can look him up for you.

You could also try the Leeds & Grenville GenWeb http://www.rootsweb.com/~onleedsg/


Mary Anne

[Keewatin]

Hi Birdlip
I had alook on the site whose name shall not be mentioned and found the death indexed.
While I was at it I looked to see if there was a message on the message board. Yes- there is a 2000 message asking why James Phair b abt 1825 in Butlersbridge Co Cavan died in Bishop Mills, Oxford on Rideau TWP, Grenville Co on !9 Aug 1890 when he was a resident of Brooklyn NY.Informant was George Ferguson of Augusta TWP.

Message says he lived in Kingston Ont in the 1830's but moved to NY by 1842. So he must be on the USA censuses. He's indexed on the 1881 US census in Brooklyn living with sister Louise and her three children. He is a printer and so are his nephews.
There are no replies to the message
Keewatin

I hope it wasn't your message:)

[Keewatin]

Sorry-meant to say 1880 US census on familysearch.org

[birdlip]

Hi Mary Ann and Keewatin, and thank you both very much.

My James Phair has been leading me quite a dance. I've posted about him before on the London and American lists here on B-Gen. Several people have helped me, and with a lot of searching, so far I know quite a bit about him..

* The family was Protestant.
* 1817 Parents Joseph and Mary married in Limerick
* abt 1825 the family moved to London
* All the family were printers, father had a printing business in London.
* Younger siblings Thomas, Richard and Sarah all b London.
* 1845 James married, had two children James 1847 and Joseph 1849, then disappeared.
* 1850 Thomas married, then emigrated to New York with his wife and baby.
* 1853 Joseph and Mary, Richard and Sarah emigrated to New York
* James's two boys married in the 1870's, had families, and lived the rest of their lives in London.
* James's wife lived the rest of her life in London.

meanwhile....
* A family printing business was established in NY.
* the rest of the family appeared on all the relevant census returns over the years in Brooklyn NY.
* Joseph and Mary died and were buried in the Greenwood cemetry, as were Thomas and his wife several years later.
* By this time Richard had been married for years and had a large family.

In all this time, there is no sign of James... unless he is the James who appears as a printer b abt 1825 Ireland, with his sister Louise in the US1880 census,( I've spotted this one too)... and unless he is also the one described as "of Brooklyn" when he dies of consumption in Canada in 1890.

I have a problem though; several actually, but this is one of them(!)... if he IS the same James, as far as I know, he was still in London in the 1830's, not in Kingston Ont, as this other researcher thinks, (no, it wasn't me) Interesting theres someone else looking though, what a pity it was seven years ago! I actually found someone researching Richard Phair on another message board, but the post was in 2002 and my email bounced back to me.

I'm tying myself in knots over this one!

regards birdlip

[Mary Anne]

birdlip

Have you tried city/town directories? Sometimes they can be tremendously useful, if only listing the name, address and occupation of the head of the family. I would look both in New York (Brooklyn, but also adjacent areas, like Queens) and in Kingston, and in London and surrounding area.

And, what about obits? (sounds like you have these)

It could be you need to order the actual death cert of the one who died in Kingston in 1890. It could be quite informative, but you will need to order the "long form".

Maybe you just need to look up the various sources and assemble all the James Phairs, and see what comes up. Then whack them all on the head, and say, "Tell me, d*** you!" ;)

A last thought -- you say James's 2 sons and his wife all stayed in London - England, I assume? Then why assume James ever left? Maybe he just *left* from London and stayed in England? Sounds like he was *one the run* or something? or just visiting ;)

[birdlip]

Hi Mary Anne,

and thanks once again, they are all helpful suggestions...(and I'm very tempted by the whack on the head idea)..I hadn't thought of Directories, and I probably do need to look at London again, just in case.

How would I go about ordering a Canadian death certificate, is it possible to do all of that online?

This'll all have to go on hold until after Christmas now though, I'm just finished wrapping all the presents, but a lot more to do!!

Have a lovely Christmas, regards birdlip / aka Jan in the Bega Valley

[bwarnerok]

I think that that death registration we found on the "A" site is exactly the information you would get on a death "certificate". Chances are somebody would retype/write the information on a prettier piece of paper and stamp it with some ink that says "official", but those are supposedly the official death registrations.

Our American brains are always wondering what happened to the body. Buried there? Cremated and shipped? A funeral home would know... and most likely it was in Grenville or the immediate area. If you can find them, Funeral home records are great sources as you often get some new info as in who paid for the services, etc.

-b-

[Mary Anne]

Jan

Indeed, you MAY wish to order the death registration from Archives of Ontario. Alas, these are NOT available online. There may be a lot of info there. You must go to this site http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/english/interloan/v-dintro.htm and find out what the microfilm number is for the INDEX, then find the person on the INDEX, get a registration number, and then you need to go to the microfilm for the actual certs and find the registration number, with the cert. The good news is, you CAN order the films for interlibrary loan, for a modest fee (shipping) and consult them at your local library.

Given the date you are looking at, the records ought to have been released to the Archives of Ontario, and OUGHT to the ones that the Axx folks are transcribing from. Having said that, I am not familiar with what the Axx folks may have in their indexes, but I would still want to look at the original -- unless of course they offer scanned versions as well as transcriptions. In my experience, much is often mis-transcribed, and much is left out. A reason why pay-per-view is often not as advertised!! APparently the transcirptions are not always done by people whose first language is the one they are transcribing from, and they are generally working fairly quickly (to save money).

Funeral home records are useful, where they may exist -- they are often held in private hands, however, and many werre destroyed over the years by the funeral directors' families. Why you may need to go to the Leeds & Grenville folks I gave you earlier -- they will know what is availabe (or not). And they will have local cemetery records which may also add information, if the folks were buried there. Cremation, BTW, in 1890 in Ontario, would have been VERY unusual.

All of this is just me, of course, and MHO. I am very picky when it comes to sources...

Merry Christmas and good hunting!


Mary Anne
(in rainy! - formerly snowy - Ottawa, Canada)

[bwarnerok]

the one on A*** that I sent you was NOT transcribed. It was the original as listed in the book of registrations and microfilmed by the LDS.

I found that to be the case with marriage certificates. I had seen a transcription online (this was YEARS ago) and ordered the certificate from Canada. Now, they have the films on A***** as it was written and it actually tells me more than the actual certificate that was typed out and sent to be.

Let me know if you find differently.

Betsy

PS.. happy holidays. :-)

[Mary Anne]

Betsy

That's good to know that the A*** folks have scans. Then it will be *what you see is what was written*, as you have pointed out, indeed.

BTW, they haven't copied them out (at least not in Ontario) for some years. They actually send you a photocopy of the entry page (which is a filled form, with signatures and all sorts, depending on the year - I just forget where 1890 lies in this).

Mary Anne

[birdlip]

Hi Betsy and Mary Anne,

thank you both very much. I'm just getting back into the swing of things after being away over Christmas, its 37 degrees here today under my shady verandah..so, far too hot to expend too much energy, and a good chance to catch up!

Keewatin has come up with some really interesting lookups for me on the Brooklyn thread, which lead me to the conclusion that the James Phair who died in Canada, and came from Brooklyn is NOT my James at all! Disappointing...but I guess the negatives are just as important as the positives in family history, and in the process I've learnt a lot. I never would've thought of looking at Funeral Home records, for example, so I shall file that idea away and no doubt use it later. It looks like I'm back to looking for him again in London, as you suggested Mary Anne. Wish me luck!

Happy new Year, birdlip/Jan

[Mary Anne]

Interesting!

Good luck. Let us know what you find out!


Mary Anne