Bull, Bisham, Alfreds Head and Wellington Pl. Pubs London

[Spangle]

Various ancestors from separate parts of my family ran the following:

James Cook, then Thomas Cook, 1800's, Bull Inn, Bisham

James and Maria Cook, Red Lion, Ealing, mid to late 1800s

Maria Cook, Alfreds head, Alfreds Place, Dorset St, Stockwell/Kennington, London, 1881

Either Milstead/Milsted or Laughlin, a pub in Wellington Place, London, area not known. (Can't recall which family ran it and can't for the life of me find it in the hundreds of names on my tree at present!).

Laughlin, Tanners Street, Ipswich, the Fox and Hounds

I don't expect anyone to run off and start researching these but would be interested to know if anyone has any connections with these pubs and will happily share whatever information I have.

Thanks!

[Jan1954]

Various ancestors from separate parts of my family ran the following:


Either Milstead/Milsted or Laughlin, a pub in Wellington Place, London, area not known. (Can't recall which family ran it and can't for the life of me find it in the hundreds of names on my tree at present!).



Hi Spangle,

I would be interested in anything that you have on the Milsteds. The family originated from Kent but one branch shot off to Bristol, another to Newcastle and a third to London. Plus there were other odd escapees hither, thither and yon.

Thanks,

Jan

[Spangle]

Hi Spangle,

I would be interested in anything that you have on the Milsteds. The family originated from Kent but one branch shot off to Bristol, another to Newcastle and a third to London. Plus there were other odd escapees hither, thither and yon.

Thanks,

Jan


Hi Jan,

There are lots of Milsteds/milsteads in Kent, largely of the village of that name. It's said that they all originally come from the same base family but who knows! If you'd like to pm me your email address I will invite you onto my Ancestry tree and you can see my lot. It's probably a damn site easier than me trying to expalin it all! If you pm me your details I'll send an invite over immediately.

All the best,

Miranda

[Spangle]

For the record, I have just found my Wellington Placee, Stepney, publican, mentioned here. He was Thomas Milstead (aka Milsted), who ran a pub (name unknown but my guess would be the Duke of Wellington or somesuch!), in 1851.

[Jan1954]

Thanks for the update, Spangle.

I shall add it to my Milsted/Milstead papers and see if there's a link.

Thanks again,

[Spangle]

I've since discovered that there was a pub in Wellington Place, Stepney, circa 1834 at least, called the Maid and Magpie. Theres no promising that this was the one my man ran but there is no evidence to suggest otherwise either. Still searching!

[Peter Goodey]

The name MILSTE(A)D does not appear in the Commercial section of the 1851 London Post Office Directory.

The directory shows John NEWPORT running the Maid and Magpie in Wellington Place.

The directory would have been compiled in 1850.

[Spangle]

Thank you so much for your trouble Peter. Well I'm blowed! The 1851 census gives Thomas as a publican, resident at 18 Wellington Place. I presume he must have either not "lived above the shop" or was telling porkies!

[Peter Goodey]

Not necessarily. As I pointed out, the directory would have been compiled in 1850.

[Mutley]

18 Wellington Place does seem to be a private house.
He did have a servant living at home so it is possible his pub was nearby.

[Peter Goodey]

The 1851 Post Office Directory shows 18 Wellington Place as the Maid & Magpie.

[Mutley]

Curiouser and Curiouser,
the 1851 census definitely has him at 18 Wellington Place with occupation of Publican. Sadly it does not mention a pub, just three houses. Neither does it mention a pub in the enumeration description.
What do you think happened Peter?
John Newport moved out in 1850 and Thomas Milstead moved in prior to the March census of 1851.

[Ken Boyce]

Only buildings which contained a residence occupied on the night of the census were normally enumerated and with few exceptions only those present overnight were included in the schedule

Did the address column or did the employment column contain the pub reference

[Peter Goodey]

In my experience, some enumerators some of the time wrote the name of the pub in the address column. Sometimes they didn't. No reason why they should really since it was a census of people not premises.

[Mutley]

1851 Ref: Class: HO107; Piece: 1552; Folio: 608; Page: 22
Mile End Old Town Upper, District 23

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r297/MutleyBG/Milsteadpublican.jpg

18 Wellington Place, - not a Maid or a Magpie in sight :)

[Mutley]

As Peter quite rightly says, Post Office Directory Of 1851

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r297/MutleyBG/Milsteadpublicannot.jpg

Sorry Spangle, I just dunno:confused:

[Ken Boyce]

Hi Guys

Wellington Place MEOT is not the same place as Wellington Place Stepney

Regards

[Ken Boyce]

Wellinton Place MEOT

H107/1552 Folios 605-616

[Mutley]

Ken,
I'm only a stupid dawg. I think I know what you are saying but please explain - in little words ;)

[Ken Boyce]

Sorry for the typos

Wellington Place MEOT is in H107/1552 folios 605-616 your reference

The 1851 directory reference is for
Wellington Place Stepney which is in H107/1551 folios 388-389
and H107/1554 folios 299-300
and H107/1554 folios 474-475

[Mutley]

Thanks Ken,
but I think this has got to be...
I'll try an get my head around it tomorrow and see if I can do a look up for Stepney not MEOT,
or maybe that's later today, now being past my bedtime ;)

though, hopefully someone will beat me to it.

[Spangle]

MEOT??? Now I'm even more confused! You mean dopey here has got the wrong place?!

[Ken Boyce]

Hi Spangle
Either Milstead/Milsted or Laughlin, a pub in Wellington Place, London, area not known.

London is a big place and Wellington Places were in abundance c1825 - 1930

The index to the 1830 Motco-Greenwood Map lists 9 different locations and the Stanford 1862 Map of London lists some 22 different locations for Wellington Place - Webb’s mid-Victorian Gazetteer lists 6 for South London and 10 for North London – Dickinson’s (c1900) Index lists 6 north and 4 south of the Thames – the 1930 Kelly’s Directory lists 9

MEOT is short for Mile End Old Town Registration District which was located in North Eastern London close to the Essex Border. (Look for Victoria Park) and the Street Index for the 1851 Census contained one listing for a Wellington Place whose file ref I have given

The Street Index for the Stepney 1851 Census lists three different Wellington Places again I have given the 3 file refs

Out of curiosity and to further demonstrate that location should always form part of record keeping I spot checked the street indexes of some other Reg Districts in the 1851 Census and as can be seen almost all districts have one or more Wellington Places

Mile End Old Town = 1
Stepney = 3
Bethnal Grn = 1
Camberwell = 5
Chelsea = 0
Clerkenwell = 1
Greenwich = 3
Hackney = 1
Islington = 2
Holborn = 0
Kensington = 2
Lambeth = 2
Shoreditch = 0
Westminster = 1

The 14 RDs that were checked out of a total of some 36 Reg District’s in the 1851 Census yielded a total of 22 different Wellington Place’s

There are many more such multiple locations with indistinguishable names awaiting to trap the unwary such as Frederick, Duke, George, Victoria Albert Elizabeth to mention a few and including the notorious HIgh

What should one learn from the above - Location location location record record record

Regards