Greenwood/Martin/Tate/Saword/Watts

[Birder]

Hi, Just found this site -I am an avid family historian who got interested a few years back.
Interests: Greenwood- Norfolk and London, Tate- Northumberland, Saword all, and Watts (William bapt 1826) of Longparish Hampshire and London. Stuck on finding marriage of Daniel Greenwood (bapt 1801) to Mary Ann ? probably Norfolk around Marsham/Buxton area (not there). Tate of Royal Navy married 1807 Essex but cannot find his parents -he served apprenticeship with John Bird Grocer in Berwick on Tweed (no apprenticeship record there) he died on return journey from Greenland prob. 1822-1826. (Navy ? Merchant Navy ? Whaler ?) Finally Martin and do you know how many Joseph Martins there are in the London area. He fibbed about his age to join up WW1 ! - must I wait for the 1911 Census ? Joseph Henry son of Joseph Horace.

[Bo Peep]

|wave|Hello Birder and welcome to the Brit-Gen forum. I am delighted that you have decided to join us and I hope you will enjoy being a member of our community.

[Geoffers]

Stuck on finding marriage of Daniel Greenwood (bapt 1801) to Mary Ann ? probably Norfolk around Marsham/Buxton area (not there).

From census returns, where was Mary Ann born ?

I have a one-place study for Buxton and a database of 14,000 entries of records from the parish, your Daniel was baptised 4th Jan 1801, the son of Isaac and Pheabe (late GOULD). They had another son, John in 1798.

The NFHS sell a CD of all Norfolk marriages 1813-1837, which may be worthwhile if you get absolutely stuck.

[Geoffers]

Finally Martin and do you know how many Joseph Martins there are in the London area. He fibbed about his age to join up WW1 ! - must I wait for the 1911 Census ? Joseph Henry son of Joseph Horace.

Bear with me, I'm typing as I think so this may not make sense - or indeed come to anything......

If Joseph Henry joined up young and fairly early in the war - say 1914/15 and he was then 16-18, this would give a birth year of around 1898-ish. Having two forenames helps in searching the GRO index so it may be worth trying a search from 1897-1899. Searching freebmd shows 5 Joseph Henrys born in roughly the right time in the London area.

You presumably have Joseph Horace's occupation from his son's marriage certificate - so try searching the 1901 census to see if there are any entries which hopefully record the full name, or if not show both as Joseph H - and where the dad's occupation is something similar to the marriage certificate.

Turning to Joseph Horace thank heavens for his parents giving him two names in an unusual combination. If Joseph Henry was born about 1898, his dad may have been around 20-50 years of age. Again try searching freebmd for Joseph Horace born in this period - roughly 1845-1878. Now freebmd isn't complete, has errors and the index may just show him as Joseph H, but there is just one entry for Joseph Horace - birth registered in Medway in 1859. This may well not be your old boy - but it's worth following in census returns - particularly 1901 when you hope to find a 42-ish year old Joseph born somewhere near Medway with a young son called Joseph.

For example, there's a 2 year old Joseph H Martin born in Gillingham, Kent according to the 1861 census - he's shown as the son of a shipwright - does following him through census returns give any matches to your chap?

Does Joseph Henry turn up in the National Roll of the Great War?

Did he receive medals from the Great War? If so and you have them, look around the rim to find his service no. rank and regt - now try TNA at Kew to see if his service record has survived.

Have you any idea when Joseph Horace died? If you can narrow it down at all, try searching the calendar to probate records - it has been copied onto microfilm and can be seen at many county record offices. A will gives lots of information and the calendar alone provides names, where and when died, sometimes a home address if different, occupation, to whom probate/admon was granted. If you can find a will with an address, then try a directory for the same period and try to locate him in that - now can you follow him back in time through directories to the 1901 census?

I hope that gives some ideas that you haven't tried (and makes some sense)

[Birder]

Thank you Geoffers, you have gone to a lot of effort on my behalf. Mary Ann did not live to 1841 census as husband was widowed and remarried 1939. The probable death of Mary Ann I have found - but cert did not confirm husband at the fever hospital in London and hospital kindly confirmed not mentioned there either nor maiden name. Burial not yet found. Feel she came from Norfolk as Daniel's siblings wives were. I have been once to Norfolk Record office this year and trawled Buxton and Cawston and others nearby. Will need to go again next year as live in Essex. Have got Norfolk marriages CD not there. Am back to Aaron Greenwood born 1750's but would like Daniel's wife.

Joseph Henry. He married 1911 said he was 24 ! (grandmother said she was 21 and really was 17). They divorce 1937 and he married her sister in Feb 1938 ! said then he was 48 died in accident th Oct said to be 49. Have joining up papers 1908 - he said born 16 Aug 1887 Islington (I felt that the day would stay correct even if the year was not). I have about 11 certs working back and forth without luck! His father's name thank goodness is a help and I saw the one you have seen in 1859 and got the cert. Going from there I have what I feel sure is J. Horace him on 1881 census in Chatham still unmarried and have tried to follow him through via occupation but not lucky so far. I plod on. What fun, but getting expensive for a silver surfer.

Thanks again - appreciated.

[Geoffers]

Going from there I have what I feel sure is J. Horace him on 1881 census in Chatham still unmarried and have tried to follow him through via occupation but not lucky so far..

I wonder if Joseph Horace is shown in 1891 at
RG12/534 f98 p1
Woolwich, 53 ton sailing vessel 'New York' used on the home trade. The schedule was returned to the enumerator at Dover.
J MARTIN, Master, mar, 38, bn Gillingham, Kent

The age is a little out, but.......?

[Geoffers]

I have been once to Norfolk Record office this year and trawled Buxton and Cawston and others nearby. Will need to go again next year as live in Essex. Have got Norfolk marriages CD not there. Am back to Aaron Greenwood born 1750's but would like Daniel's wife.

Is that the Aaron GREENWOOD who was inconsiderate enough to marry Anne SMITH!! at Cawston in 1775?

I have quite a few resources for NE Norfolk, if you get stuck, please ask - I many not be able to help, but am happy to try. Just post a message on the North East Norfolk forum.

[Birder]

Many thanks - yes he was unkind Smith indeed. Wil bear in mind NE Norfolk Forum.

Re Martin - will have a look thanks - explains a lot that would.

[Birder]

Thanks for the census ref. but which site is it on - cannot see it on fmypast etc.
thanks

[Geoffers]

Thanks for the census ref. but which site is it on - cannot see it on fmypast etc.
thanks

On the site you mentioned, enter a last name 'Martin', age '38', birthplace 'Kent', place of residence 'Woolwich'

You'll get three hits, the one you want is the third