looking for marriage - ideas please?

[steuer]

Hi everyone,
I am trying to find a marriage for an ancestor I just had a breakthrough with today. Her name is Helene Catrine NIELSEN (aka Neilson, Nielson etc.. and by Ellen as first name). The only record we had for her till this point was on the family shipping record to Victoria (from Denmark via England).

Today I found her death finally (after about 30 years of family searching!):
** death
Digger - Death Index. Victoria 1921-1985

Surname: MCMILLAN
Given Names: Ellen
Father: Neilsen Lawrence
Mother: Katienka THOMPSON
Death Place: CFLD
Age: 92
Age Code:
Year: 1951
Reg Number: 11475
Event: D


So I went back to the Pioneer Index, found she was married to "George McMillan" and found two children in 1885 and 1886. But I cannot find the marriage anywhere in all the possible spellings I have tried. All of Ellen's family stayed in Victoria around Castlemaine but Ellen seems to have lived in the city so I am thinking it unusual for her to have perhaps gone interstate or such.

I know purchasing the DC would be the best way to go, but at the moment I cannot do it for a couple of weeks... and I think it may be just a spelling issue as to why I cannot locate it??

Anyways, I'd appreciate any ideas if anyone has any...

Thanks!
Bridget.

[jeeb]

Hi Bridget

You say you only have a family shipping record. I wonder then if you have seen this baptism record on the IGI


Helene Catrine Neilsen daughter of Lorenz Frederick Neilsen & Catherine Marie Thomsen
6 Oct 1858 Kettling Aabenraa Sonderberg, Denmark

Jeremy

[steuer]

Thanks Jeremy,
yes I have seen it, my grandpa submitted it actually. :)

What I should have said was that the shipping record was the only evidence we had of Ellen's presence in Victoria, besides the igi data that was all we had till now.

Regards,
Bridget.

[ChristineR]

...So I went back to the Pioneer Index, found she was married to "George McMillan" and found two children in 1885 and 1886. ....I know purchasing the DC would be the best way to go, but at the moment I cannot do it for a couple of weeks... and I think it may be just a spelling issue as to why I cannot locate it??

Anyways, I'd appreciate any ideas if anyone has any...

Thanks!
Bridget.

The death certificate may not be the best way to go in this instance - one of the children's birth certificates might be best.

It will tell you when and where they married, and also list all previous children names and ages. The death certificate may not be accurate, but it may be since the parents are listed. If they did not actually marry, then both certificates will tell porkies.

Just my thought
Christine :)

[ChristineR]

Decided to have a look - found it in NSW !

2724/1877 MCMILLAN GEORGE NEILSON NELLIE DENILIQUIN

cheers
Christine

[ChristineR]

:) and two children births NSW

22519/1882 MACMILLAN CATHERINE GEORGE NELLIE DENILIQUIN
12551/1879 MACMILLAN ANNIE DAGMAR GEORGE NELLIE DENILIQUIN

Christine

[steuer]

Thanks Christine, that's a huge suprise! I never would have thought she left Victoria. My grandpa is never going to believe this one sheesh... or that she went by Nellie!! |hug|

I found a way to buy the dc. for ellen this arvo (couldn't help myself - couldn't sleep last night from excitement!!) there is a child named Alice Ethel b. abt 1878 I can't find her or George McMillan's death... will keep looking but!

Thanks for the help |bowdown|

[jeeb]

:) and two children births NSW

22519/1882 MACMILLAN CATHERINE GEORGE NELLIE DENILIQUIN
12551/1879 MACMILLAN ANNIE DAGMAR GEORGE NELLIE DENILIQUIN

Christine

Hi Christine & Bridget,
I'm not used to Autralian birth registrations so may I ask how do you know these are children of Helena apart from it having George & MacMillan in the names? The dates are not the same as the birth years of 1885 & 1886 given above.

Jeremy

[ChristineR]

Hi Jeremy,

of course it needs to be proven :D but a good question.

The marriage cannot be found in Victoria, so it either did not happen or the marriage was in another State. It was not found in South Australia.

The girl liked to call herself Ellen, and Nellie is a very common use for Ellen here. It appears that the George McMillan and Nellie Neilson marriage is theirs, at Deniliquin, NSW (New South Wales)

The two children births quoted are registrations that happened from the date of the marriage (1877) until they moved to Victoria - where the later dates for another two children in 1885 / 1886 are mentioned.

A fifth child was not registered according to Ellen's death certificate, but steur did not say that these children did not match the ones listed on the death certificate so I am presuming it turned out to be correct. The death certificate also did not have contradictory marriage information it seems.

Deniliquin which appears on both the marriage and the 2 children's births would have been only a small rural town at the time - not far over the Victorian border, so that helps tie the children in with the marriage.

(2724/1877 In 1877 - MCMILLAN GEORGE married NEILSON NELLIE at DENILIQUIN )

cheers
Christine

[jeeb]

Hi Christine,
Thanks for that, I follow it now. I was looking at it as if DENILIQUIN was part of the children's names. Yes it would seem most likely that the information is correct. Well done you.

Jeremy

[steuer]

Yes, the children matched the death certificate details, and the death certificate also confirmed that the marriage took place in deniliquin - so it all fits perfectly so far. :)

I have ordered the marriage certificate just to make sure of everything.

Regards,
Bridget.

[ChristineR]

:) Many thanks for letting us know.

It is good when the death certificate can actually point one in the right direction - thought it would, since her parents were named.

The marriage may give you a hint as why Nellie/Ellen was there - perhaps work related or staying with relatives.

With my Irish lot, almost all their Ellen girls were nicked named Nellie at one time or another.

Bridget, you might be lucky enough to find George buried with her - if it is one of the 3 Necropolis run cemeteries, you can email them and they will tell you.

Christine :)

[steuer]

Thanks Christine.

Yes I hope the marriage certificate will give me an insight into why she left Castlemaine. I'll post as soon as I get it (which may take a while, I still haven't got the order I place on the 24th of October from the NSW BDM office!!, I just recieved 4 certificates from England ordered on the same day, sheesh!!).

This fame Ellen was from is from Denmark, she was born there the oldest child of the marriage so I am so very excited about finding her! The parents names were mis-spelt on the death which is why I think we never found her over the last 30 years of looking. Gee these cd indexes are beaut hey, makes it so much easier compared to looking at the microfiche one by one!

I have asked the bloke who does lookups at Brighton cemetery to find her grave for me - so far he has told me that he cannot find her there |sad1| so we'll see.... *sigh*

Regards,
Bridget.

[ChristineR]

Bridget,

I have just been doing some more digging and looking in the Pioneer Index after seeing a Peter and Mary NEILSON having a kid in Deniliquin in 1877.
(not sure now if that is the spelling of the surname)

I think it is her brother? one of their kids has Dagmar as a middle name too, as did one of Nellie's.

In Victoria
Peter NIELSEN, born Denmark, married Mary PEILE, born Cumberland, in 1872 reg: 2346

I'll write up the kids for you - her surname varies a lot! 3 kids 1872-1875 then a gap to 1881.

Fryers Creek? did that used to be the first name for Castlemaine?

and look first kid called Niels Thompson!

cheers
Christine
edit - just read your post properly - you have the cd - you can look yourself. Do you have the next cd? as I can look further. You probably already have Peter & Mary, just didn't know they also ventured interstate - if it is them in NSW. :D

[steuer]

Ellen did not have any siblings named Peter unfortunately and there are no Niels Nielsen's going back a few generations in Denmark either.. all the boys are Johann or Johannes, Christian and Lorens.

Regards,
Bridget.

[ChristineR]

So it must be only a coincidence then - the Dagmar and the Thompson (it wasn't the Niels) appearing in the kids names. He was born Denmark, and Fryers Creek is near Castlemaine, let alone appearing to be Deniliquin too.

As well, Nellie's mum's death says her father is Peter Thompson.

I was sure I had found a sibling! but it is a surprisingly common surname.

C :)

[steuer]

well it could turn out to be a cousin maybe? ellen's mother's surname was thomsen.

perhaps these towns were places danish immigrants sought out?

[ChristineR]

:)
... ellen's mother's surname was thomsen.

perhaps these towns were places danish immigrants sought out?

sorry, I just edit my post while you did yours. that death - though perhaps it is not hers - father Peter Thompson.

C

[steuer]

Sorry Christine, I'm not understanding your question in your last post. Whose death has father Peter Thompson??

[ChristineR]

Sorry Christine, I'm not understanding your question in your last post. Whose death has father Peter Thompson??

Is this Ellen / Nellie's mother's death?

Cath Mary NIELSEN, died Castlemaine, aged 64, 1898 reg:1431
father: Peter THOMPSON, mother: Mary UNKNOWN

If that is not her mum's death, then I am thinking that if there is another NEILSEN from Denmark in the same geographical area with Thomsen/Thompson connections, then perhaps Nellie is not your Ellen after all, as both her and Peter NIELSEN had children with Thompson and Dagmar in their kids names which to me implies a close connection between them.

I would not place too much importance on the actual spelling of Thomsen.

Christine :)

[steuer]

Yes Christine,
that is the entry for her mother's death.

Regards,
Bridget.

[steuer]

Here are the details from the marriage certificate:
** nsw marriage registry
2724/1877 MCMILLAN, GEORGE to NEILSON, NELLIE in district of DENILIQUIN

George McMillan, bachelor, cab driver age 22, born liverpool england, father john mcmillan ship captain, mother rose (surname unknown)

Nellie Neilson, spinster, no occupation, age 22, born hamburg germany, father laurence neilson mining manager, mother marian thomson

witnessed by richard r. galbraith and william brophy.

So far I still cannot find George's death :confused:

[ChristineR]

Armed with this new information :D

Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888

Surname: MCMILLAN
Given Names: George
Event: D
Spouse Surname/Father: Jno
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Rose MURPHY
Age: 32
Death Place: MELB E HOS
Year: 1886
Reg Number: 2216

I am so happy for you! but sad for Nellie.

ChristineR |jumphappy

[steuer]

oh my gosh christine, thank you! i don't know how i missed that one! |banghead|

looking at the reg no., it looks like george died before ellen gave birth to their last child, a boy named george who was born 22 may 1886 - tragically he died at the age of 15 in 1901. gee whiz that is so sad!! :((

i'll have to get the death certificate now to see how he died.

regards,
bridget.

[HelenVSmith]

Hi Bridget

I don't know whether you are aware of the transcription agents for BDM's in NSW but I have found them faster and cheaper than the Government and you can order online.

Joy Murrin and Marilyn Rowan are two of the agents whose details you can find with a Google search.

Regards
Helen

[ChristineR]

I checked the Inquest index, no entry, so his death must not have been unexpected when it happened. With such a low reg number, the odds are that he did not live to see his last child.

ChristineR

[ChristineR]

Hi Bridget

I don't know whether you are aware of the transcription agents for BDM's in NSW but I have found them faster and cheaper than the Government and you can order online.

Joy Murrin and Marilyn Rowan are two of the agents whose details you can find with a Google search.

Regards
Helen

This particular death was in Victoria - one cannot use transcription agents -purchasing online in Victoria is only $2.50 dearer than a full transcript in NSW - and you cannot get any faster than downloading the image right away!

ChristineR