Indian Ocean - Island of St. Catherine?

[Peggy]

I always get odd stuff.

I have a relative in the army (he'd have had a commission) who is said to have died on the island of St. Catherine in the Indian Ocean.

The closest match that I can find is Catherine Island (no Saint) off Rodrigues, one of the Mascarene Islands and a part of the Republic of Mauritius. But the place is just barely big enough to die on. :-)

From about 1810, the British Army had a garrison in Mauritius, and that fits. My wild guess is that my chap died sometime after 1849. But nothing was on that island.

Does anyone know of another island "in the Indian Ocean" that might qualify? Or have any theories on how my chap would have happened to die on an uninhabited bit of rock? Exploring?

[Peter Goodey]

I have a relative in the army (he'd have had a commission) who is said to have died on the island of St. Catherine in the Indian Ocean.

If you can find his death among the military death records, you'll know for sure where he died.

Overseas and military indexes are available online at find my past

[Peggy]

Thanks, Peter.

Nothing that seems to fit. I suppose that some of the records must been lost?

Not that I'd insist that the vague family account --- without even a date! --- is accurate. One wants to think that there must have been some basis for it, just because the place named is so offbeat. Maybe people in the 19th century knew this island well, but it has vanished since. :-)

Peggy

[harfin]

I have a relative in the army (he'd have had a commission) who is said to have died on the island of St. Catherine in the Indian Ocean.

Hi Peggy

Are you sure that the St Catherine's Island he died on is in the Indian Ocean? There is a St Catherine's Island near Pembroke (Wales) in the UK. See here (http://www.tenbycivicsociety.org.uk/StCatherines.htm)

As I am sure you already know you have a similarly named island in the US state of Georgia.

Not sure about British regiments movements in the 1840's / 1850's in either spot but the fort on the Pembroke island was being built in the 1860's as a defence for the port of Pembroke.

Good luck
Alan

[Fordy]

Thanks, Peter.

Nothing that seems to fit. I suppose that some of the records must been lost?

Not that I'd insist that the vague family account --- without even a date! --- is accurate. One wants to think that there must have been some basis for it, just because the place named is so offbeat. Maybe people in the 19th century knew this island well, but it has vanished since. :-)

Peggy

If he was an officer, you could tell us his name / rank - or any details. Might be able to find him for you.

David.

[Peggy]

Hi Alan,

I'm not at all sure! I'm trying to track down "the source of the source." The earlier source for "island of St. Catherine" was a book by a cousin who may have had some personal knowledge. The source for "in the Indian Ocean" is a recent book by Georgina Doyle, widow of his gr-grandnephew.

I did find those other islands, plus one that AIR was off the coast of Brazil. Other than the one near Pembroke, none seem a likely place to find the British army in or after the mid 19th century. If he had retired from the army, or was on half-pay, one island is, I suppose, as likely as another.

I thought that finding the island might help me to learn what regiment, which would help me to find records.

Hi David,

His name was William Denis Pack. His parents married in 1802, and his father died before 1813. I don't know about rank. I usually have better luck finding something in the gazette or other newspaper accounts, but drew a blank this time. I say that he'd have had a commission because the other members of his extended family who were in the military were officers at some level, and his middle name was in honor of his father's first cousin, who was a General. He was an only son, so should have inherited enough to buy in.

He is supposed to have died unmarried, so I'm chasing this only to try to fill in a gap in the tree and for purposes of family history. Love the history! I found one of his cousins with the regiment that burned our White House in 1814 and then went on to New Orleans. :-)

Peggy

[Peter Goodey]

I thought that finding the island might help me to learn what regiment, which would help me to find records.

Wrong way round, I think. If you're saying that you have checked the overseas and military indexes with no result, search for him in the Army Lists. This will tell you his regiment and perhaps a lead to where and when he died. You may need someone to do that for you.

[Neil Wilson]

I just put St Catherine into Multimap and came up with 24 different places (not all Saints), excluding the one in Wiltshire. There is one on Jamacia, but that is a parish, but the nearest one to any ocean.

[Fordy]

Hi David,

His name was William Denis Pack. His parents married in 1802, and his father died before 1813. I don't know about rank. I usually have better luck finding something in the gazette or other newspaper accounts, but drew a blank this time. I say that he'd have had a commission because the other members of his extended family who were in the military were officers at some level, and his middle name was in honor of his father's first cousin, who was a General. He was an only son, so should have inherited enough to buy in.

He is supposed to have died unmarried, so I'm chasing this only to try to fill in a gap in the tree and for purposes of family history. Love the history! I found one of his cousins with the regiment that burned our White House in 1814 and then went on to New Orleans. :-)

Peggy

Ok,

Here we go :-)



Harts Army List 1842
Royal Artillery.
First Lieutenant.
1st Battalion.
Dennis Wm. Pack.
6 years service full pay.
2nd Lieut 18 June 1836
Ist Lieut 4 Aug 1838

Harts Army List 1849
Royal Artillery
13 Years Service
8th Battalion
Denis Wm. Pack
2nd L: 18 Jun 1836
1st L: 6 Aug 1838
Captain: 1 Apr 1846

Harts 1852 Army List
Same as 1849 except:=
16 years full pay.
Horse Brigade.

British Army List October 1854.
Royal Regiment of Artillery.
Dennis Wm. Pack-Beresford. 1st Battalion.
Captain 1 April 1846.

(Beresford???)


Not in 1855, or later Harts Lists.
Presume he died late 1854, early 1855??
No mention of War Services in the Harts unfortunately, which would have been nice..


Is this chap one of the rellies?

1815 Army List
Pack, Major General, Sir Denis. K.C.B.
8 Honorary Distinctions.
Late of 71st Foot.


Hope this helps..
David.

[Peter Goodey]

Great stuff, David!

It may be worth checking the Gazette. There's mention of a Dennis William Pack Beresford MP of Fenagh Lodge, County Carlow!

[Peter Goodey]

Times 31 Dec 1881

Captain D W Pack-Beresford died of apoplexy early on Thursday morning at his residence Fenagh Lodge Bagnalstown...before he assumed the name of Beresford he was well known in racing circles as Captain Pack

[Fordy]

Times 31 Dec 1881

Captain D W Pack-Beresford died of apoplexy early on Thursday morning at his residence Fenagh Lodge Bagnalstown...before he assumed the name of Beresford he was well known in racing circles as Captain Pack

Knocks the St Catherine's theory on the head then!

http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlcar2/Carlow_1871.htm
Beresford Denis WP Fenagh Lodge 5,567 0 25 4,687 15

[Forrest Anderson]

In addition to the Army List, Regular officers of the Royal Artillery can usually be found in "List of Officers of the Royal Regiment of Artillery from the year 1716 to ...." by General W H Askwith. There is more than one edition of the book, with different ending dates, and the Fourth Edition, which goes up to 1899, says:

Denis W Pack-Beresford (assumed the additional name of Beresford)
Age when commissioned - 17 yrs 11 months
Gentleman Cadet - 14 Aug 1832
2nd Lieut - 18 Jun 1836
1st Lieut - 6 Aug 1838
2nd Captain - 1 Apr 1846
Captain - 14 Jan 1852
Resigned - 24 Nov 1854.
Died at Fenagh, Ireland.
Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Lower Canada 1837-39. Barbados Feb 1847 to Sep 1847. ADC to General Cator in Bulgaria, 1854.

His father was Sir Denis Pack KCB (born 7 Oct 1775, died 24 Jul 1823) and his mother was Lady Elizabeth Louise Beresford, dau of the 1st Marquess of Waterford.

The family lineage can be found in Burke's Landed Gentry and Burke's Landed Gentry of Ireland under Reynell-Pack of Netherton and Pack-Beresford of Fenagh respectively.

The latter adds the following information:

Denis William Pack-Beresford of Fenagh JP DL, High Sheriff 1856, MP County Carlow, Captain RA. Born 7 Jul 1818, married 12 Feb 1863, Annette Caroline, only dau of Robert Clayton Browne, of Browne's Hill, County Carlow. This gentleman assumed, by Royal Licence dated 6 March 1854, the additional name and arms of Beresford, in compliance with the will of William Carr, Viscount Beresford GCB. He died 28 Dec 1881.

Details of his 7 sons and 2 daughters are also given.

Forrest

[Fordy]

Hi David,

His name was William Denis Pack. His parents married in 1802, and his father died before 1813. I don't know about rank. I usually have better luck finding something in the gazette or other newspaper accounts, but drew a blank this time. I say that he'd have had a commission because the other members of his extended family who were in the military were officers at some level, and his middle name was in honor of his father's first cousin, who was a General. He was an only son, so should have inherited enough to buy in.

He is supposed to have died unmarried, so I'm chasing this only to try to fill in a gap in the tree and for purposes of family history. Love the history! I found one of his cousins with the regiment that burned our White House in 1814 and then went on to New Orleans. :-)

Peggy

A few anomalies to sort out Peggy. All that information...but is it the same chap?

David.

[Forrest Anderson]

All that information...but is it the same chap?


Indeed! Although David, Peter and I are talking about the same officer, there are rather a large number of inconsitencies. Three that particularly bother me are:

"Our" Capt Denis William Pack(-Beresford) RA was the younger of two sons (his older brother being Arthur John Reynell Pack, born 1817, died 1860), and he had a father who was a Major General called Denis who had married on 10 Jul 1816

On the other hand, Peggy's chap's was an only son, and his "middle name [Denis] was in honor of "his father's first cousin, who was a General", and his "parents married in 1802".

Although I'm pretty sure it's the right family, I have strong misgivings that it's the right person.

Forrest

[Peggy]

Oh my! You have all been busy. I just got an e-mail notice that there was a (it didn't say several) new post!

Yes, this is the right family. William Denis Pack (the chap I'm looking for) was the 2nd cousin of Denis William Pack-Beresford. It was a son of Denis William, named Denis Robert P-B, who wrote the earlier book (a memoir of his grandfather, Maj.-Gen. Sir Denis Pack, with a chapter on the family) which gives the "island of St. Catherine" info.

William Denis was, btw, the uncle of Arthur Conan Doyle's mother. It is the widow of ACD's nephew who says "in the Indian Ocean." :-)

Tangled web, isn't it?

Peggy

[Fordy]

Oh my! You have all been busy. I just got an e-mail notice that there was a (it didn't say several) new post!

Yes, this is the right family. William Denis Pack (the chap I'm looking for) was the 2nd cousin of Denis William Pack-Beresford. It was a son of Denis William, named Denis Robert P-B, who wrote the earlier book (a memoir of his grandfather, Maj.-Gen. Sir Denis Pack, with a chapter on the family) which gives the "island of St. Catherine" info.

William Denis was, btw, the uncle of Arthur Conan Doyle's mother. It is the widow of ACD's nephew who says "in the Indian Ocean." :-)

Tangled web, isn't it?

Peggy

Peggy,
Well in that case he wasn't an Officer in the British Army. As far as I know it is/was illegal for an officer not to be listed in the Army List. I'm sure Forrest will correct me if I'm wrong.

David.

[Spinner]

Your search seems to be similar to mine. My grandfather, Sidney Thomas Carlisle, was with the British Army, Norfolk Yeomanry, in the Andaman Islands, Indian Ocean around 1900. I am trying to trace him, his military record and any record of his marriage to my grandmother Mary Ann (Newman). Both my aunts were born out there, registered at Port Blair, Andaman Islands, although my mother was born in England. Grandfather came from Ireland originally, I believe Co. Clair. Unfortunately all my family are now dead, and I have no-one I can go to to get further information regarding dates etc.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Averil Quinney (Carlisle)

[Peggy]

Hi David,

I haven't had access to all army lists, but if he isn't listed in any. . . . Could he have been in the HEICS army? (Another of his cousins was.) Would that be a separate list?

I said that this is odd. I've found documentation for this man's sisters, but so far he shows up nowhere. How often does that happen? :-)

Peggy

[Peggy]

Averil,

There's a BMD marriage listing for Sidney Thomas Carlisle, 3rd Qtr of 1899, in Norfolk, Norwich district. On the same page is Mary Ann Newman. Volume 4b, page 270. The cert should help you.

Peggy

[Fordy]

Hi David,

I haven't had access to all army lists, but if he isn't listed in any. . . . Could he have been in the HEICS army? (Another of his cousins was.) Would that be a separate list?

I said that this is odd. I've found documentation for this man's sisters, but so far he shows up nowhere. How often does that happen? :-)

Peggy

He isn't in the 1836 or 1851 EI Lists, I already checked :)

David

[Peggy]

Thanks, David.

For all I know (damn little), this chap joined whatever army in the 1820s, popped off to the mysterious island, and promptly died.

What really frustrates me is that both authors seem to think that one will know what island they mean. I have visions of him falling on his head while collecting botanical specimens or checking out the wildlife on that uninhabited rock I mentioned.

Ah well . . . he isn't the only one who can't be found. A couple of his uncles just disappear, one supposedly "gone to America."

Peggy