do you know where these were taken?

[debsy]

Hi, I thought I would try scanning some photos. They would have been taken mid 1930's. The area would have been London or southern suburb of London I believe.
Does anyone recognise the area?
-Deb

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee144/debsy_2007/EvelynMills1934MPA3.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee144/debsy_2007/grandadattrainstation193422yo.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee144/debsy_2007/evelynmillsc1933.jpg

[Davran]

Picture 2 is really puzzling. At first I thought grandad was outside a model village, but on a closer look, the people in the background are too realistic to be models. What a strange layout for a station! Pity the lamps are obscuring the name of it.

[Mutley]

The station picture is fascinating.

It looks like a main line station because of the height of the roof in the background.
I cannot read the words on the sign, even trying to enlarge it but it looks a short word. Not Kings Cross or London Bridge for example.

Could be Blackfriars though the sign above the kiosk looking place beside his right shoulder looks like Kings Cross ??

Beside the back of the other lady sitting on the wall it looks like it could be the end of a line. Surprising also that the children seem to be on the line and sitting on the edge of the platform, obviously not expecting a train!!

This link names all the possible stations and more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_London_railway_stations

[Sue Mackay]

Will ask 'he who knows where everywhere was as long as it had a station' as soon as he gets back from operating duty at the Cardiff Model Railway show :D

[Ladkyis]

it looks like A R M are the letters before the word station they look more likely than ARW

[Davran]

The station picture is fascinating.

Could be Blackfriars though the sign above the kiosk looking place beside his right shoulder looks like Kings Cross ??



Could it be New Cross?

[eleanor bristow]

Do you think it could be KEW Station the 3rd photo looks like greenhouses in the background
Eleanor

[Sue Mackay]

OK, 'he who knows where everything was as long as it had a station' has decreed that this was not a mainline station. He's a railwayman, and all the lamps,furniture etc are wrong, as well as the fact that no mainline station ever calls itself 'XXX Station'. It just calls itself 'XXX'

His next thought was that it was a miniature railway and his memory banks dredged up the sunken Dreamland Station at the big amusement park in Margate. This would have been a popular day out for Londoners. He found a picture in one of his railway books

The picture was taken from the wall the man is sitting on in Debsy's picture, and you can see the same white gate in the background. In Debsy's picture you can just see the tops of the carriage divider screens on the trains.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a109/rhoosesue/B-G%20Forums/Scan0001.jpg

[Ladkyis]

Give that man a rousing cheer! I have to say that having the word station on the sign did bother me in as much as I said to Mr M that I had never seen a station sign with the word on it.

Goodness me this forum is good!

[MarkJ]

Give that man a rousing cheer! I have to say that having the word station on the sign did bother me in as much as I said to Mr M that I had never seen a station sign with the word on it.

Goodness me this forum is good!

I was impressed too! I spent a little while trying to blow up the image and increase the contrast to see if the signs were any clearer because it seemed an interesting puzzle. But "Mr Sue" is "The Man" !
That was a truly impressive bit of detective work!

Mark

[Mutley]

Beside the back of the other lady sitting on the wall it looks like it could be the end of a line. Surprising also that the children seem to be on the line and sitting on the edge of the platform, obviously not expecting a train!!



I go along with Dreamland, in fact I do now have a vague recollection of it as a child. We used to go there on a charabanc for a day out as did all South Londoners.

The Kurzel, and the famous Scenic Railway which could be the scaffold type erection in the background that Eleanor thought were greenhouses.

The third picture could be in the gardens that were around it and along the front. The first could even be the boarding house that they stayed in on their holidays. There were loads of little streets with terrace and semi detached houses.

Well done "he who knows about stations" http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/Jayda-Bluz/clap1.gif

[debsy]

Thankyou all for your help and particularly Mr Mackay for his impressive detective work!|grouphug|
I thought the sign may have said 'Park Station' or 'xxx Park Station'.
The third picture is my grandmother and it is likely that it was taken at the same place as it looks similar and has a lot of people in the background and similar fence rails. The first picture could have been anywhere really; it may have been outside one of their homes before they were married. (They were married in 1935.)
I am now going to try and find some information on Dreamland.
Thanks again, Deb

[Sue Mackay]

Dreamland is still an amusement park today and its website says:
"Dreamland is one of Britain's most famous seaside amusement parks. The park, which opened in 1920, is home to the Grade II listed Scenic Railway roller coaster, the oldest operating roller coaster in the country and Britain's first listed amusement park ride."

Type Dreamland Margate into Google Image Search, then click on Advanced search and set coloration to Greyscale. This will home in on all the historical pictures of the site. If you also set filetype to ,jpg it will eliminate the hits of logos (which the computer treats as images), most of which are .gif.

[debsy]

Thankyou for this bit of technical information Sue. I have never tried the advanced search before. I followed your instructions and got much better results than I did earlier today by searching Google or Images without the advanced search. I'm sure this is going to help with many of my searches now.
-Deb

[debsy]

I have been looking into the railway again and I'm wondering if Mr M can help me again. It seems to me that the miniature railway was at Margate Pier, is that a part of Dreamland? I have not been able to find a picture of the miniature railway although there are loads of pictures of the scenic railway roller coaster. Is there information in the book that Mr M got the picture from? I'm in the finishing off stage with my mum's photo album which I want to finish for Christmas. Any more info will be appreciated - Deb

[Sue Mackay]

Hiya Debsy, the picture appeared in an album called "Steam on Britain's Miniature Railways" but was the only one on the Dreamland line. There are other, more detailed, books on miniature railways in the UK rather than just the locos, I'll pop into Cardiff library when I have the chance and look there, sure I remember seeing something. Dreamland was across the road from the pier but to the best of my knowledge the line did'nt go outside the confines of the park. The roller coaster is (was?) of course quite separate. Many big amusement parks had both a railway ride and one or more coasters. There may well have been another line on the pier at some time - these attractions came and went often in quite short periods - but it doesn't ring any bells with me. The DMR was quite substantial I think, some photos of one of the locos, the Barnes-built Atlantic "Billie" which worked there from the 1920s to about 1979, appear at
http://www.joylandbooks.com/scenicrailway/prestonrally.htm - there's apparently a "save Dreamland" campaign.
Rod the relief (aka Mr.M)

[Mutley]

Hi Debsy, I spotted this site,
I have not studied it to know if they can answer your question but the initial blurb sounds like they may be able to help.
Worth a look and maybe an email.

http://www.yesteryearrailwayana.co.uk/

[debsy]

thanks again for your help. Sue, I appreciate your offer to go to the library but I think the website you provided answered my question. There was definately a miniature railway so my grandad was at Dreamland in the photo and so was my grandmother in the other photo (it said Margate on the back). I am surprised that there don't appear to be any photos on the web though. Obviously the coaster was the main attraction.
I did have a quick look at yesteryear railway too but it appears to be books for sale.
regards - Deb

[Colin Moretti]

Time is pressing, I know, but I would suggest the Isle of Thanet Rootsweb list; there are some very helpful and informed people there.

Colin

[Peter_uk_can]

Happy Days !

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/phlawford/MargateDreamalnd1a.jpg

[Sue Mackay]

What a super photo! I would guess it was taken in the 1920s from the clothing. Certainly by the time Debsy's relatives went there the concrete entrance building on the front had been constructed.

[Foad Family Tree]

I expect I am too late, just found this site but the two pictures are most definitely DREAMLAND in Margate. It was the Peter Pan Railway.

The girl outside the house is also bugging me as recognise the basements, but cannot put my finger on where but would assume that this was the holiday flatlets/apartments they were staying at on their visit to Margate.

I tried to upload a picture to show you but its says its too big and I'm afraid I do not know how to make the jpeg smaller.

Suzannah

[Peter_uk_can]

I scanned Google for street photos of Margate - Brighton and other coastal towns, there is similar architecture in some of them. The girl's dress also looks typical 50'ish holiday wear.

[Sue Mackay]

I tried to upload a picture to show you but its says its too big and I'm afraid I do not know how to make the jpeg smaller.

I extracted these very precise instructions of Mary Young's from another thread:

This is what I do:
(1) register at www.photobucket.com (it's free).
(2) upload your photo to the site.
(3) once it's uploaded, you'll see 4 little boxes underneath.
(4) click in the bottom box (which auto-copies the link into your clipboard)
(5) paste (Ctrl+v) into your forum posting.
Voila!

[Spinner]

I think its New Cross station in South London. It has the same layout today.

Spinner

[Foad Family Tree]

Thank you for the Photobucket help, but how do I get it from my clipboard (whatever that is) to the site. Sorry to be a pain

[Sue Mackay]

Thank you for the Photobucket help, but how do I get it from my clipboard (whatever that is) to the site. Sorry to be a pain

If you can see a box with the Image Code (IMG) then highlight the code, right click and choose Copy (which copies it to your computer's 'clipboard'), then go to the forum thread on this site and right click again and choose Paste. You will get a string which begins with and ends with , but when you press Submit the picture should appear instead.

If you don't get the IMG Code appearing beneath your photo on the Photobucket site, click on the Customise Link button and check the box which says IMG Code for Forums

[Foad Family Tree]

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii119/foadfamilykent/dreamland.jpg

[RobynAus]

I extracted these very precise instructions of Mary Young's from another thread:

This is what I do:
(1) register at www.photobucket.com (it's free).
(2) upload your photo to the site.
(3) once it's uploaded, you'll see 4 little boxes underneath.
(4) click in the bottom box (which auto-copies the link into your clipboard)
(5) paste (Ctrl+v) into your forum posting.
Voila!


Thank you Sue That's the easiest instructions for uploading photos I have ever seen. Brilliant regards robyn

[Browneyes]

Don't know if it will help re the 1st picture but if you know the towns/villages they lived in maybe there'll be something on...

http://www.francisfrith.com

[Engineer-pmw]

Hello Debsy,


The place is definately the Dreamland Amusement Park. The park was the brain child of a Henry Isles and was opened in 1920, largely as a Pleasure Park, with the emphasis on park gardens and a menagerie. Included in the original park was a 15" gauge Miniature Railway. In 1924 the park was revamped as an amusement park and the miniature railway was remodelled. The 'Park Station' in your original picture is basically how it was until the railway closed in 1980. The parks 60th year! What a way to celebrate!!
All that remains of Dreamland is the Scenic Railway roller coaster ride...search web for 'Save Dreamland Campaign' for info.

I have just completed a booklet on the life of my Grandfather and his life on the railways...Mainline & Miniature. He worked on the mainline railways as a Top Link driver until retirement in 1952. He then worked on the 10.25" gauge Margate Pier & Harbour Co. Ltd miniature railway until 1964, when he went back up a gauge to work on the Dreamland Miniature Railway. He operated the DMR until finally retiring at the age of 82. Should you wish to read the story the booklet is available. Each costs £3.75 including UK post and Packing.

Billie was one of six similar locomotives designed by built by Albert Barnes in Rhyl, North Wales, Henry Greenly (of Romney Hythe & Dymchurch Railway fame) designed them (and the original Dreamland Miniature Railway) for the Rhyl Miniature Railway. Billie, as with the other five locomotives survive to this day. Billie is unfortunately not currently working, but can be viewed on open days at the Preston Steam Services site near Canterbury, Kent. (they have a web site)

I am sorry I didn't see this enquiry before Christmas, but hope the information helps.

If anyone out there reading this has any other photographs or historical information on the Margate Miniature Railways I would love to hear from them.


Best regards
to all

PMW

[Peter_uk_can]

Hi Engineer....... What a fabulous response and goes to show that research and patience must go hand in hand. I hope Debsy sees this.

[Peter_uk_can]

07 April 2008

Another piece of history lost....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/7335519.stm

[MarkJ22]

Im still new here - but I consider this to be some excellent detective work - seeing as it all started with only a picture!!

I am confident that when I get stuck all I will need will be here!!!

Brill!!!

[Sue Mackay]

07 April 2008

Another piece of history lost....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/7335519.stm

How sad! Rod will be very sorry to hear this when he gets back (Monday night is model railway club night).

He will also be fascinated to read Engineer's post, which we missed because we were in South Africa in February.

[susan-y]

07 April 2008

Another piece of history lost....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/7335519.stm

That is just too eerie of a coincidence.|sad1||sad1||sad1|
BUT............
The entire thread tells us all what a helpful bunch you all are and that 2 heads are better than 1 and even more heads are better yet. I am in awe.|cheers|
Sue

[debsy]

Thank you all for your wonderful help. I love the new pictures too. I did have a look at the Save Dreamland site and got some info from there. Thankyou Engineer-pmw for you information. I will print it off and add it to my mum's album - which she loved, by the way.
I was sad to read that there was a fire. I hope the coaster is able to be repaired. With all the research I did on Dreamland, I felt a kind of affection for it...
Regards to all
Debsy

[castellcoch]

Looks like 1930s construction. I know several it can't be but there are so many.Try images on search engines, you never know your luck.