Nonconformist BMD Records

[Peter Goodey]

The National Archives´ collection of nonconformist birth, marriage and death records from 1567 has now gone on line.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/stories/172.htm?homepage=news

Only RG 5 and RG 6 is online so far!

[Mythology]

"Only RG 5 and RG 6 is online so far!"

It seems to be hit and miss so far.
The National Archives page says "BMD Registers provides access to the non-parochial and nonconformist registers 1567-1840 held in RG 4 and RG 5."
not RG5 and RG6, so I suspect that was maybe just a typo of yours, and a random surname search brings up RG4 and RG5 entries, but...
I tried a few that I already have from RG4/3541, and they don't seem to be indexed.
Specifically, in case I'm not being imaginative enough when allowing for mistranscription and you can see them:
Mary Ann Barfield born 8 October 1832 (incorrectly shown as 1835 on the IGI)
William Fuller Barfield born 31 March 1835
Elizabeth Jane Barfield born 3 January 1837

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Mythology]

Similarly, I have a Joslin (or thereabouts) family who, irrespective of where they were living at the time, had their kids baptised at the Independent Chapel in Billericay, and are in RG4/1499:
(Child, parents, abode, birth/baptism)
John, Samuel & Hannah Joseline, Laindon, 20 Nov 1791/13 Dec 1791
Ann, Samuel & Hannah Joseline, Laindon, 16 Dec 1793/17 Jan 1794
James, Samuel & Hannah Joseline, Butsbury, 10 Feb 1796/15 Mar 1796
Joseph, Samuel & Hannah Joseline, Butsbury, 30 Jul 1798/17 Sep 1798
Hannah, Samuel & Hannah Joseline, Great Burstead, 4 Mar 1801/29 Mar 1801
Samuel, Samuel & Hannah Joslin, Great Burstead, 28 Jul 1803/6 Nov 1803

They don't seem to be there either.

[Peter Goodey]

I suspect that was maybe just a typo of yours

I don't like to skimp on typos |dunce2|

Thanks for the correction.

[Mythology]

And, while anything is, of course, worth a shot if you can't find someone, and while it may prove an economic way of getting the images for those who can't get to Kew, a local record office which has the films, or an LDS FHC, etc., so it has its uses, it appears to be yet another job farmed out to peasants who they dragged out of the paddy fields and threw half a bowl of rice to as payment.

Description given for various Barfields 1827-1835 on the IGI:
Church Lane Ind, Thatcham, Berkshire, England
Description given in TNA's catalogue:
RG 4/89 BERKSHIRE: Thatcham Church Lane Chapel (Independent): Baptisms
Description given when looking for these Barfields on bmdregisters.co.uk:
Thatham, Berkshire

If they can't even get the place name right, it doesn't say much for it, does it?

[Mythology]

"I don't like to skimp on typos"

Hey - they're my speciality - haven't you noticed all those "edit" notes in my messages! ;) :D

[Mythology]

"while it may prove an economic way of getting the images for those who can't get to Kew, a local record office which has the films, or an LDS FHC, etc., so it has its uses"

While, personally, I don't need to spend a penny on this site, I had a look at their pricing system, and will offer this suggestion for the benefit of those who do want to make use of what's on offer:

A "credit" costs 50p.
Basic search is free.
Advanced search is 1 credit (50p).
Full record is 5 credits (£2.50)
Image is 5 credits (£2.50)

As they say, "If you do a standard search and then are able to tell which is the correct person from the results list and decide only to view the full record, it will cost a total of 5 credits. However, if you do an advanced census search (1 credit) then view the full transcript record (5 credits) then also decide to view the original page image (5 credits) the total would cost 11 credits (£5.50)."

I have not, of course, seen the images, but I would suggest that once you have identified your person in the search, which may or may not cost you 50p, the next move should be to look at the image, not the "full record".
Even if you don't think you are very good at transcribing, I would think it unlikely that your own reading of what is shown will be less accurate than theirs.
And unless they have been really nasty and cut the reference number slips off the images, you should be able to tell by checking the reference number in TNA's catalogue which register the entry has come from, thus saving yourself £2.50.

[Pam Downes]

A "credit" costs 50p.
Basic search is free.
Advanced search is 1 credit (50p).
Full record is 5 credits (£2.50)
Image is 5 credits (£2.50)
Am I being incredibly mean, or does anyone else think these prices are a bit steep?
(And in saying the next bit, I do appreciate that not everyone has a local LDS FHC.)
I've just checked for 'my' surname. Out of 4 births, 3 are on the IGI which means I can order in the film at my local LDS FHC for less than £4.
Three burials in Greenwich might be slightly harder to find as there are at least three chapels to choose from for the time frame, though I suppose I could pay for one then get the LDS film for the other two. :)
Pam

[Mythology]

And another possible money-saving thought...

Again, I have to point out that I haven't seen their images, so I could be wrong here, but...
It is quite common in nonconformist registers to find a whole batch of kids of one family registered at the same time.
For example, those 1832-1837 Barfields in RG4/3541 were all registered together. William Fuller Barfield is the last entry on one page, then Mary Ann Barfield and Elizabeth Jane Barfield are the first two entries on the next page. So, there are only two *pages* to look at for the three entries.
On the assumption that their "image" is the page of the register, not a cut-out of the individual entry, if you have a number of kids in the same family, do look at the first one you bought before spending money on another image that is actually the same one!

The same may apply to things like the Dr Williams's Library records. I don't know if they've used the register entries, the accompanying copy certificates, or both, but I have for instance, five kids in one family, with birth dates from 3 January 1805 to 5 January 1816, who I see are in their index, albeit with one of the names wrong - all registered on 1 July 1818, so all on the one page of the register.

[Peter Goodey]

In case some people haven't twigged, many (all?) of these records have already been indexed in the IGI and BVRI. So check there first!

[v.wells]

BVRI? What is that Peter? It is 8 am here so pardon my no brainer.

Vanessa

[hughar]

I'm seeing the same problem with incomplete records. In this case RG4/2597 for the Silver Street Presbyterian Chapel, Trowbridge. The piece should have Bapt. 1757-1837 and Bur. 1782-1837, but the burials are not on the bmdregisters site. I know they exist, as they are on the WiltsFHS transcription of the piece.

[Mythology]

"Now, I'm not paying £2.50 for an image that I can get for 30p"

Although, having said that, I can see a possible situation where even Mr Scrooge here, who is so tight that he gets envious looks from the ducks on the pond every time he walks through the park, might be prepared to evict another few moths.

I believe, from the TNA info, that these are new scans from the original documents, not like their rotten cheaply digitised re-hash of the Tesco "Value" film copies that they used for the PCC registered wills.
If sites like the Medway registers, the Essex registers, the City of London Cemetery etc. are anything to go by, that means that we *should* get far superior images to those on the RG4 and RG5 films.
I will wait until I've seen a few samples for comparison, but, while it hasn't happened yet, I can imagine a situation where the film copy is so bad that I can't read it, and I'd be prepared to risk £2.50 to get a copy that I *can* read.

[Peter Goodey]

I believe, from the TNA info, that these are new scans from the original documents, not like their rotten cheaply digitised re-hash of the Tesco "Value" film copies that they used for the PCC registered wills.

Hmmmm. Not sure about that. They say they "had to temporarily suspend the ordering of digital and microform copies of the records". My understanding was that they produced these from one of the "master" films (I don't know the correct terminology) ie not the scratched ones normally available to the public and not from the original documents either. Didn't Rod have similar problems when Ancestry were loaned the "master" census films?

[Peter Goodey]

BVRI? What is that Peter? It is 8 am here so pardon my no brainer.

It's an LDS thing.

"British Isles Vital Records Index 2nd Edition

An index of records from England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland recorded between 1538 and 1888. Records are from parish registers, civil registration, etc. Includes 10.4 million births/christenings, 1.9 million marriages. All records in previous edition are included, plus 7.3 million records not previously published. Virtually all records are not included in the IGI. 13 CDs are of births/ christenings (compared to 4 CDs in previous edition), and 3 CDs contains marriages. Price: £22.95"

One might add that there are no patron submissions included :D!

That price is for us in UK. We would buy from the British depot. Presumably you would buy from USA.

There's a more detailed list of the contents here...

http://www.genoot.com/downloads/BVRI2/index.html

If you regularly use a mormon FHC or a good genealogical library you probably wouldn't bother to buy.

[Peter Goodey]

Presumably access is free from the National Archives (the news item doesn't actually say that it is) so it will just be a minor change to my usual practice of saving them up until the next time I go. I'll think about the higher RG numbers later...:confused:

[frogfan]

Hit and miss it may be but I've found loads!!!!!! |biggrin||biggrin||biggrin||biggrin|

[Wilkes_ml]

I've looked on the site and did find a page - again a whole family on same page http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc25/Wilkes_ml/selmes_protestentdissentingminister.jpg

The reference number is down the side, and the image quality was good (downloaded as adobe file - so may have lost some clarity when transferring to jpeg)

I couldn't find one that I know was non-conformist in Cornwall in 1874, and I did think that the cost was a bit pricey, but then I'm happy to pay £3.50 for a will that I can hardly read!! And you can never guarentee yo will get any useful info from a will either!

[sindylin]

RG4 is now on there now.

I had a look and found the entries for the three baptisms I was looking for that I'd initially seen on the IGI.

Result!

sindylin

[Dunroamin]

Hi

Can someone tell me what is BVRI, I know what IGI is.
Thanks
Dunroamin

[Geoffers]

Can someone tell me what is BVRI, I know what IGI is.
Thanks
Dunroamin

Look at page 2 of this thread - Peter's reply - message no.15 and you will be enlightened.

[Thomasin]

In support of BMDRegisters, the other day I found the baptism of somebody I had been stuck on for some time - plus an unknown brother, and the names of their parents and their maternal grandparents. I thought he was a Londoner born and bred - turns out he was a Nottinghamshire lad, registered in Cripplegate at the age of 13. Can anyone please explain to me what Dr Williams' Library was?

I also found this chap's younger daughter, baptised in the Providence Chapel, Chadwell Street, Clerkenwell, but the elder daughter still eludes me.

The images are excellent.

Thomasin

[Pam Downes]

Hi Thomasin,
Dr Williams' Library (http://www.dwlib.co.uk/index.html)
Explains it so much better than me!
Pam

[Thomasin]

Thank you Pam. I hadn't come across it before.

Have now found another brother and four sisters for Thomas Elliott on the next page, so from being a man about whose previous life I knew nothing, he is now a man with a PAST.

Thomasin