1st Brick Wall - Guest

[BeeE586]

Thanks, Bo, but you might be sorry as I could erect a small fortress with mine.

Can I start with Jonathan Guest ?

He appears DBY Beighton in 1751 when he marries Ann Binney. The Beighton registers begin c1650 and he is the first of the name. There are no other siblings marrying or aged parents dying. Jonathan and Ann raise their family of ten known children in Beighton, and bury two more who were not baptized there.

There are Guest's in the area but no Jonathan or Jon or John or Jn or any other diminutive. Lichfield DRO has not found any Guest wills, there are no Settlement Certificates or Examinations, no mention in Manor Court Rolls (some do exist) or Rentals. There is a single mention in Churchwarden's Accounts - "went to a meeting about Jonathan Guest" - nothing else.

A possibilty on the IGI is Jonathan, son of Thomas, an extracted entry of a baptism in YKS Worsborough in 1726. How can I prove if he is 'mine ?'

I have done the search in the first and second rings around Beighton, both in Derbyshire and over the border into Yorkshire. Where do I look now ? |banghead|

All suggestions welcome.

Eileen

[Neil Wilson]

Hi Eileen
Have you checked Mike Spencer's Yesterday Journeys site?
There is a number of 'GUEST'S' which appears when searched for, this one is in the Settlement Certificates for Scarcliffe
SC32 John GUEST, Sarah wife. Barlborough 1784
There is a total of 7 GUEST's.
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~spire/Yesterday/index.htm

Cheers
Neil
BTW - I am the webmaster for the above as well as www.cadfhs.org.uk (http://www.cadfhs.org.uk)
hope to see you there soon.

[Wirral]

Who are the big landowners around Beighton? Do they have land in another county? I have just found some of my own family who were baptised near Chesterfield in Derbyshire at the end of the 18thC, then die just over the border in the north of Nottinghamshire. Next they turn up at the other end of Nottinghamshire. They were tenant farmers & I think they have moved from one tenancy with the Duke of Newcastle to another owned by him.
Any idea of an occupation for Jonathan or his children?

[BeeE586]

Thank you both for your thoughts.

I check on Yesterday's Journeys regularly, Neil, as I know it is ongoing. The Guests shown so far are all too late. I have also exchanged e-mails with Mike over another brick wall - James Siddall.

Beighton never had a resident Lord of the Manor. In the 16th century it was owned by the Earls of Wharncliffe, later passing to the Pierrepont's, the Earls Manvers of Thoresby. Such Manor Court Rolls as I have are from their day, but it is not a continuous run. I know many of the Pierrepont Muniments are in Nottingham University Library but unfortunately I have never been able to visit.

I do not have an occupation for Jonathan - he died in Beighton in 1775 and no occupation was ever recorded in the registers. Four of his sons were apprenticed to cutlers in Sheffield - one of the masters being a Joseph Binney, but in no way connected to Jonathan's wife that I can find. Jonathan himself was not apprenticed according to the index of apprenticeships of the Cutler's Company.

Eileen

[ChristineR]

A possibilty on the IGI is Jonathan, son of Thomas, an extracted entry of a baptism in YKS Worsborough in 1726. How can I prove if he is 'mine ?'

By studying those parish registers you may be able to prove that he is not yours.

C :)

[Wirral]

Looking at British Origins, only 4 marriages of Jonathan (& variants) GUEST were list on Boyd's Marriage Index 1835 - 1840. Two were "Jon" (1801 & 1725), but two were "Jonathan":
1751 Jonathan GUEST married Ann BINNEY, Beighton, Derbyshire.
1742 Jonathan GUEST married An RANGLE, Fen Ditton, Cambridgeshire.
The 1st is listed on the IGI, but the second one is not. As your Jonathan seems to appear in Beighton in 1751, could the marriage in 1742 be an earlier one of his?
Also, the 2 children who were buried in Beighton, but not baptised there - where were they baptised & where did they come in the sequence of births?

[BeeE586]

By studying those parish registers you may be able to prove that he is not yours.

C :)

Very true, Christine, but I am 81 years old and disabled. The registers I believe are in Wakefield, too far away for me to travel, and enquiries that I have made suggest that they are not available for sale either on fiche or CD. I have tried to pursue this through Hugh Wallis's site but without success. For two or three years I did belong to the Yorkshire FHS as I have several WR connections, but again without success.

However, all suggestions are welcome.

Eileen

[Wirral]

Have you looked through the records at Derbyshire Archives at Matlock? I went there for the 1st time a week ago & they had a lot of the church records there transcribed in nicely indexed books. I was looking through the records for Alfreton & they seemed to have all the baptisms, marriages, burials & MIs for the parish church there (I only had time to go through one of the marriage books). Also, they have card indexes (by name, place & subject).
If you haven't already looked through the indexes, I can look next time I go to Derbyshire & Nottingham Archives (although I don't know when that will be - might be weeks or months).

[BeeE586]

Looking at British Origins, only 4 marriages of Jonathan (& variants) GUEST were list on Boyd's Marriage Index 1835 - 1840. Two were "Jon" (1801 & 1725), but two were "Jonathan":
1751 Jonathan GUEST married Ann BINNEY, Beighton, Derbyshire.
1742 Jonathan GUEST married An RANGLE, Fen Ditton, Cambridgeshire.
The 1st is listed on the IGI, but the second one is not. As your Jonathan seems to appear in Beighton in 1751, could the marriage in 1742 be an earlier one of his?
Also, the 2 children who were buried in Beighton, but not baptised there - where were they baptised & where did they come in the sequence of births?

Wirral, thank you.

I too had looked at Boyd on BO and wondered, as you do with any problem of this sort - all sorts of strange possibilities go through your head.

He was married 1751 and died 1775 during which time 10 children were baptized at regular intervals, the youngest in 1773. I have always felt the greatest sympathy for Ann being left with such a tribe, but the fact that no mention of handouts appears in Churchwardens' Accounts suggests that they were not destitute or in need. Also, 4 sons were apprenticed in Sheffield, 3 of them after his death. Beighton at this time was essentially an agricultural community with a little surface mining - the deep pits came much later - and did not share in the edge tool manufacture of surrounding parishes although many Beighton lads were apprenticed to those trades.

The two who were buried were Sarah in 1761 and Joseph in 1762 who could have been born in the gap between Mary 1758 and Ann 1763 who WERE baptized. I have considered that Sarah and Joseph were perhaps stillborn or lived only a few hours and were named by the midwife to allow Christian burial. Who knows ? They could have been from an earlier marriage. The early Beighton registers were rather ill kept with very little detail.

It is so good to have other minds considering my problem and I am grateful.

Eileen

[Cornish Maid]

Eileen

If you are able to get to your nearest LDS family history centre, then you can order the filmed copy of the register to view there for about £3.

Cornish Maid

[BeeE586]

To Wirral

Over the the last thirty years I have spent a great deal of time in Matlock RO, both when it was in County Offices in the old Smedley's Hydro and when it moved to the school. When we went to County Offices we used to time our arrival for when the morning tea trolley came round and we could have tea and hot sausage rolls. A couple of hours with records, then lunch in the canteen and a another couple of hours with records - it was a great day out. Sadly, the school does not have a morning tea trolley. About half my family lines are from Derbyshire so I have perused dozens of registers. Being a teacher with long holidays did help, then retirement when I could go at least once a month. I think I have exhausted Matlock records.

Do hou have interest in the names NEWTON, RODGERS or BOOT in Alfreton/Pleasley/Pinxton ? If so, I may be able to help.

To Cornish Maid

I do know about the Stake Libraries but the nearest one is at Grenoside, about 15 miles away to the north of Sheffield with a drive through the centre of the city to get there. I used to go, but because I actually lived in Sheffield I was only allowed one hour. The traffic got to be horrendous - sometimes it took well over an hour to get there and the same to get home, so a three hour drive for an hour's study got to be not worth the effort. Daytime traffic in Sheffield now is not to be considered and our famous tram does not go that far out.

I do seem to be a bit negative about your suggestions however much I appreciate them. I was actually hoping to find someone else researching the Guest family. The members of GR, Ancestry, Rootsweb, etc. seem to have no interest in the name.

Again, my thanks for your time and interest.

Eileen

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Very true, Christine, but I am 81 years old and disabled. The registers I believe are in Wakefield, too far away for me to travel, and enquiries that I have made suggest that they are not available for sale either on fiche or CD.
Eileen

Hi Eileen :)

I buy microfiche direct from Wakefield Archives, but when I first phoned them to make enquiries about doing it, my call was taken by someone who *was rather vague* to put it nicely! ;)

The person who deals with microfiche orders, is a very nice, kind and efficient lady, called Sue Pad. Why not write direct to her, as I do now?

spad(@)wyjs.org.uk

Hope this helps.

[Wirral]

Hi Eileen
I thought you had probably "done" Matlock. :) Have you done the same for Nottingham?
My Alfreton names are RADFORD and GREEN. George RADFORD married Ann GREEN 14 Mar 1826. George was the son of William, Ann was the daughter of Thomas. Annoyingly, no mother's name was recorded at the baptisms. |banghead| so I am going to have to work out who is who by a process of elimination. The RADFORDS were joiners/carpenters. One branch ran the Blue Bell Inn in Alfreton in the mid 19thC. Fortunately, some did leave wills.:)

[BeeE586]

Wirral, good afternoon

Sorry I can't help with Radford or Green, although I seem to remember the Blue Bell still exists; I was a frequent visitor to Alfreton when my sister lived there. Do you belong to Derbyshire FHS ? They hold an enormous collection of transcribed information at their headquarters in Derby if that place is easier for you than Matlock. Or you could try here

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/DARG/index.html

Nottinghamshire operates a very good system regarding fiche of registers, whereby the Libraries hold fiche for their immediate area. So, for the area around Worksop I can go to Worksop Library, ditto Retford, ditto Mansfield, ditto Newark - you don't always have to go to Nottingham. School finished at 3.40 pm and twenty to thirty minutes later I could be sitting in the car park at either Worksop or Retford with a flask and sandwiches. The Libraries closed at 7pm so I had the best part of three hours study time. Then after retirement I could spend a day in Newark, although there is still work I need to do in that area. Mansfield was a no no as it involved steps and I don't do steps. About a third of both my maternal and paternal lines were of the Worksop/Retford area before they ended up in Derbyshire and I can still get to both those places without difficulty, as I can to Matlock if need arises

Thank you again.......|bowdown|

Eileen.

[BeeE586]

Diane - you are a diamond !

I think that when I e-mailed Wakefield the reply was from the 'rather vague person' you mentioned. It was on the lines of someone on TV - I forget who - whose response is always "Oh no, we don't do those!"

I am out for the rest of the day but will contact your lady tomorrow as there are several WR registers I would like to see.

Thank you.

Eileen

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Eileen :)

Oh good ..... I hope you can manage to order the fiche you need, or want, or would like to have, e.g. ALL the fiche for ALL the Parishes! :D

It's a slow process for me at the moment, as I'm wading through (buying) Birstall Parish fiche at approximately £55 per order. Any single order over £50, warrants a discount - 80p per fiche, instead of £1.20p. so this is how I do it. Look at all the money I'm saving by doing this, although my husband says *how can you save money, when you're spending it?*

Mind you, that's the male mind for you, as we ladies know what I mean e.g. money saved in Sales at the shops! ;)

Anyway, I'm expecting my order to arrive shortly, so hubby will probably only see me at mealtimes, as I shall be trawling for hours in my den.