Theft of 200 Pigeons!!

[Mutley]

Looking for further information regarding John Selby from Maidstone, Kent (I only have him in the 1841 census) and Daniel (who maybe his son)??

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r297/MutleyBG/JohnPigeons17-3-1832Times.gif

[busyglen]

Mutley, I know you have access to the Censuses, so you probably have spotted this but.....thought I would throw it in the pot anyway.

I've got some details of the 1851 Census for Maidstone, and spotted this and wondered if this could have been another younger son of John Selby...?

Maidstone 1851 - HO107/1617 folio 237V

KNOWLES, George Head, M, 36, Bricklayer, b. St. James, MDX
KNOWLES, Emily, M, 35, b. Boughton Monchelsea, KEN
SELBY, John, Nephew, 2, b. Loose, Kent

Could your John have been born in Loose? Just a thought, but probably way out of line.

Glenys

[Mutley]

Hello Glenys,

Wow! A new one... Thanks so much.

I have just waved goodbye to the grandchildren after 2 weeks. No more the patter of tiny feet, is now rather like the thunder of a herd of elephants!:) Bless their trainers and wheelies!!

I don't know if this John is one of mine but I have not seen it before and it is worth storing. However, I must not fall into the mistake of thinking that all in the area with the same surname are mine but it's hard not to get a bit excited and think.... Could be, Maybe?

Forgive me for being vague but if he is a nephew with a different surname to the head then he must be the son of Emily's sibling and as I do not yet know all the children of John senior it is more than possible.

Thanks again, a definite one to store in the pot.

Regards, Mutley

[busyglen]

Mutley, if your John had a sister who married, (and as yet you don't know that) little John could be from his side also.

Hope I haven't given you more problems, but as Loose is outside Maidstone, thought it worth mentioning. There were only four hits for Selby in Maidstone on the 1851, but the others were born elsewhere.

Good luck.

Glenys

[Mutley]

I find with this hobby, the more problems we acquire the more chance we have of getting anywhere. That is providing we solve them, of course.:)

I think I will go on the hunt for the birth of young John. It will be worth finding out who are his parents.
Also looking for the court records for Daniel and the parish records for Maidstone.

Can I be cheeky and ask if you have any idea of the church I would be looking for? I think they may have been Catholics.

Thank you
Mutley

[get2BJ]

Out of interest, the two younger men in the report - Daniel Selby and John Glover, have they appeared on subsequent census information?

Did they escape transportation to Australia for their crime? I understand that 8 out of 10 of the 165,000 convicts sent to Australia were convicted for theft of some sort, usually very petty theft when compared to modern misdemeanours.

Brenda

[busyglen]

Loose is on the outskirts of Maidstone....(they even have a Loose Womens Institute!)
but I don't know where the nearest Catholic Church would be. I found one, but it wasn't built until 1880, so that's out.

You will probably be able to get information regarding the Parish Records, from:
Centre for Kentish Studies, Maidstone.....email: archives@kent.gov.uk
Tel: 01622 694363 although on second thoughts you're abroad, so won't really want that will you. ;)

Hope that's of some help.

Glenys

[Mutley]

OK, Thank you. You have set me on a whirl.

Cannot find Daniel as either a convict or on a following census.
There is a John from Middx that received 7 years and was send off in the First Fleet, though I need to research that more as another site says he was sent to NSW in the Third Fleet. The rest of the family ended up in Middx/Surrey.

However, I have found a brother, (I think) and he was baptised in the
Wesleyan Chapel at Union Street in Maidstone. Quite a surprise!

Off to search again, Thanks for your imput.

xx

[Pam Downes]

Cannot find Daniel as either a convict or on a following census.
There is a John from Middx that received 7 years and was send off in the First Fleet, though I need to research that more as another site says he was sent to NSW in the Third Fleet. The rest of the family ended up in Middx/Surrey.
Hi Mutley,
Just a query to make sure that you haven't got your centuries confused, as the First and Third Fleets were sailing in the 1700s, not the 1800s, and therefore well beyond the time scale of the John in your original message.
(If it's me who got herself confused, I'm now prepared - |dunce2| :) )

Edited to add: Don't know how useful the whole of this might be, but the third paragraph of the introduction is useful re final transportation dates.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=347
Pam

[Mutley]

Thanks Pam,
Yes, you are right the timeline was 1788 - 1791, and no, you are not confused, I am. It's just that I have so many John's and they all seemed to be villains that anyone of them could be the John listed on this site or a relative.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/

The 11 ships of the FIRST FLEET left Portsmouth under the command of Capt Arthur Phillip. Different accounts give varying numbers of passengers but the fleet consisted of at least 1,350 souls of whom 780 were convicts and 570 were freemen, women and children and the number included four companies of marines. About 20% of the convicts were women and the oldest convict was 82. About 50% of the convicts had been tried in Middlesex and most of the rest were tried in the county assizes of Devon, Kent and Sussex. From the "LONDON GAZETTE", October 1788.

A second fleet of six ships left England - Guardian, Justinian, Lady Juliana, Surprize, Neptune, Scarborough. The Guardian struck ice, and was unable to complete the voyage. She was stocked with provisions. Only 48 people died in the first group of ships, but this time 278 died during the voyage. This time transporting the convicts was in the hands of private contractors. From the "SYDNEY COVE CHRONICLE", 30th June, 1790.

The third fleet of 11 ships [Atlantic, William and Ann, Britannia, Matilda, Salamander, Albemarle, Mary Anne, Admiral Barrington, Active and Gorgon] arrived in 1791, with over 2000 convicts. From the "NEW HOLLAND MORNING POST", 18th October, 1791

Glenys,
I have tracked this Little John of Loose and found his parents. At the moment I don't think he is one of mine. However, what I have discovered from your post is that there were two different families descending from two different men named John Selby. Until I can get back to about 1740 in Maidstone, I will not know if they are related. As I have not the faintest idea what churches to look at for the parish records, I think it will be a 'put one side for now'.

Thanks again to you both for your interest and your help. I am extremely grateful.

[uksearch]

And on a similar theme, here is an entry from the New Bailey prison records, Salford.

6707: James FOLSTERCROFT. April 17th 1863. Offence: Flying Pigeons at Oldham. Sentence: 7 days hard labour or pay 2/6 + 16/- costs. age last Jan 17 years. height: 5ft 3ins...

UK

[Mutley]

Maybe the moral to this thread is:

Stick em in a pie and eat the evidence.......;)