GALL on 1911 census lookup please

[sally]

If anyone has access to the Canadian 1911 census could I ask for a lookup please.

My gt.uncle James Russell GALL (indexed on various censuses as GALE) was born Aug 1891 in Lanarkshire Scotland.
On his attestation papers on 22nd Jan 1916 it has his address as 291 Stradbrooke Avenue, Winnipeg, Manatoba. His trade on these papers is a Salesman.

As his brother-in-law William M(A)CKENZIE had a bakery at the same address in 1941 so I would hope that he & his wife Janet nee GALL would also be there with James.

I am trying to get closer to the date they sailed to Canada so even a negative result would help.

Regards
Sally

[Mythology]

If anyone has access to the Canadian 1911 census
"Anyone" does indeed have access to it - it's online and free to access:
collectionscanada.ca
That's the official site, and as you have an address, that may do you, but there's also a name indexing project which might be worth a shot if you find that easier - I haven't investigated exactly what's covered and what isn't, but it says they have 99.26% of it done, so if you want to take a look at that as well - again, it doesn't cost anything:
automatedgenealogy.com

[sally]

Thanks for the site Mythology looks like I have my work cut out for me. There are 131,064 entries for me to check one page at a time but as I have already checked 23 of them I only have another 131,041 to go ;) .

That of course is presuming he was in Winnipeg at the time & not elsewhere in Canada, still, I have scanned the pages of London districts one page at a time & found the entry I was looking for so this will not be a lot different.

If however someone does find him on the census & can step in to give me a clue as to which district number I should be looking in then I would be grateful.

I did check on the bit about addresses but it is not very good on exact street names and apart from Stradbrook Place it kept coming up with Spadina [now: Stradbrook] which wasn't a lot of help. Maybe I missed it but I couldn't find anywhere I could do a direct search for James GALL.

Regards
Sally

[Copper]

Sally if you go to the second link Myth gave in is post, then click on Province you can then do a surname search. It then searches all of the districts in the province that you have chosen.

I think that this is still a work in progress so a negative result may not mean he is not there.

Have fun!

[sally]

Thank you Copper, I have looked & located the search - time for a trip to the opticians for me I think.

Off to try searching now, regards, Sally

[Mythology]

"I think that this is still a work in progress"

I expect that you are right, but, after my own experience with Moosejaw, Saskatchewan, in 1911, I have an alternative suggestion as to what's happening with the remaining 0.74%. ;)

Apparently this lot was filmed around 1955, and some bright spark then binned the originals, so there's no chance of getting clearer copies. In about 1955 I had a nice cheap unsophisticated Kodak "Brownie 127" camera. According to a web site that I found mention of it on, these were all produced in the UK, and a few were exported to the USA as the "Starlet" (not to be confused with a US-made camera of the same name).
No mention of them being exported to Canada - but I carelessly lost mine on holiday round about then, so I believe it was found by a visiting Canada Archives employee, and that is what they used.
The pages not done are those where the transcriber has taken one look, thought "I wish I'd never volunteered for this", and shot themselves in despair, but nobody's told the project co-ordinator yet, so they don't realise that they're not going to get those ones. :)

[duchessmac]

Sally could not find any of them on the 1911 census but did find that
Janet Gall married William MacKenzie 08 July 1908 in Winnipeg
James Russell Gale married Lissie Bruce Henderson 16 Sept 1920 Winnipeg
hope this helps along the way
Carolyn

[duchessmac]

Sally- I just found a couple of more things
Elizabeth Bruce Gall died may 18 1970 buried May 18 1971 Brookside Cemetery Winnipg
there is a James Gall died feb 19 1943 and buried in the military section feb 22 1943 at Brookside as well
There is also a
Jessie Mackenzie died aug 16 1943 buried aug 8 1943 plot 24-2195-0
William David MacKenzie died July 29 1966 buried aug 3 1966 plot 24/2196-0
seems that graves are side by side. could be your Janet and William
if this is the same Jessie (Janet) I also found her obit.she would have been born about 1897.

Carolyn

[sally]

How nice of you to pick up my posting after so long Carolyn.

Since my posting I have found out quite a bit more about James & his sister Janet (Jessie). The marriages you found are both mine and the burials for James & wife Elizabeth are my James & his wife. The burials for MacKenzie are not however mine although both William & Janet (Jessie) were buried in Brookside Cemetery & I have the dates for both of them.
A very nice man on this forum went along to the cemetery & took great photos of all the grave stones for which I was most grateful. He also took a photo of a stone next to William MacKenzie who might be Williams mother although I cannot prove it yet.

Your contacting me has however reminded me that I need to recheck the 1911 for William & Janet as I now know that they had daughters Ann born 1909 & Mary born April 1911 in Winnipeg which may make it a little easier to spot them.

Kind regards
Sally

[AdeleE]

I have found your James Gall on a passenger list:
Name: James Gall
Gender: Male
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Date of Arrival: 22 Jul 1912
Vessel: Pretorian
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Port of Departure: Glasgow, Scotland
On the image of the page, he is single, born Scotland, a clerk, and going to his brother-in-law (not named) in Winnipeg, Manitoba.

Adele

[AdeleE]

1916 Census of Manitoba, Saskatchewan & Alberta
291 Stradbrook, Manitoba, Winnipeg South, 10
Roll: T-21934; Page: 22; Family No: 237

William MacKenzie 41 b. Scotland, baker, immigrated 1906
Jeanet MacKenzie 34 b. Scotland, immigrated 1908
Anne MacKenzie 6 b. Manitoba
Mary MacKenzie 5 b. Scotland, immigrated 1911
Hugh MacKenzie 3 b. Manitoba
Andrew MacKenzie 1 b. Manitoba

Adele

[AdeleE]

Passenger list
Date of Arrival: 10 Sep 1911
Vessel: Hesperian
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Port of Departure: Glasgow, Scotland

Hugh Mackenizie, 27, has lived in Winnipeg 5 years, born Scotland, going to Winnipeg
Janet Mackenzie, 29, has lived in Winnipeg 3 years, born Scotland, going to Winnipeg
Annie Mackenzie, 2, has lived all life in Winnipeg, born Canada, going to Winnipeg
Mary Mackenzie, 5/12, has lived all life in Winnipeg, born Canada, going to Winnipeg
The family is classified as returning Canadians.

Adele

[sally]

Thank you Adele, I can see that others want to help so I thought I had better say what I have found so far.
I have
James & Janet GALL first manifests from the UK to Canada .
James & Elizabeth marriage cert.
Manifests for Elizabeth returning to Canada after visiting Scotland.
James & his wife Elizabeth deaths & stone inscriptions.
James & Elizabeth's son & his death orbit.

Janet GALL & William's marriage certs
Janet & her husband Wm MACKENZIE deaths & stone inscriptions.
Janet & William's childrens births, marriages & their death dates & some orbits.

What I don't have is Janet & William MACKENZIE in Winnipeg, Manitoba with Ann b.1909 & Mary b.1911 on the 1911 census. (James GALL not in Canada for this census) I tried some searches on both Ancestry Canada & the 1911 transcription project but no luck

I have just searched on the 1916 Canadian Census at Ancestry Canada & found the MACKENZIE's (with mother as Jeanet) at Winnipeg South with the added children Hugh 1913 & Andrew 1915 but as I only have UK subscription cannot see the entry.
Nothing came up for James GALL on this census - James was born Aug 1891 Lanarkshire Scotland

Any help with these censuses would be most appreciated.
Regards
Sally

[AdeleE]

What I don't have is Janet & William MACKENZIE in Winnipeg, Manitoba with Ann b.1909 & Mary b.1911 on the 1911 census. (James GALL not in Canada for this census) I tried some searches on both Ancestry Canada & the 1911 transcription project but no luck

As the MacKenzie family returned to Canada from Scotland on 10 Sept 1911, perhaps they were in Scotland 3 months earlier when the 1911 census was taken on 1 June 1911.

The 1916 census does say that 5 year old daughter Mary was born in Scotland and immigrated in 1911.
If she is 5 months old on the Sept 1911 passenger list, she would have been born in Scotland around April 1911, meaning that the family was in Scotland when the 1911 Canadian census was taken in June.

I haven't found James Gall in the 1916 census either.

Adele

[sally]

That's Great Adele, I had no idea that any of their children were born back in Scotland. Off now to check outgoing passengers from the UK between 1911 & 1913 and onto SP to check out Mary's birth. I will have to wait a few years to see if I can find them on the 1911 in Scotland.

Many Thanks
Regards
Sally

[sally]

Well I now have the image for William & Janet coming to Glasgow from Montreal with Ann as a baby in Oct 1910 & them going back out in 1911 although I will have to wait until I buy another subscription to get the details. I nearly have enough details on other members travelling from the UK to do that.
The birth of Mary in Scotland was a bit harder as for 1911 the information given is limited. None of the search results were where I would expect them to be staying in Scotland so will have to try a little more research first.

Regards
Sally

[AdeleE]

If James Gall enlisted in January 1916 (his regimental # indicates that he was in the 101st Winnipeg Light Infantry Battalion), he was probably on his way to Europe by June of 1916 when the census was taken.

Adele

[duchessmac]

Sally,
hope your search turns up something- I actually found 291 Stradbrook on 1911 but the family is Doby- can't find MacKenzie's anywhere. But that is nothing I can't find all my MacKenzie's either on the 1911 census.
You could try the 1906 census and try and find William and his mother- might prove the grave next to them is indeed his mother's.
Family Search Pilot Project had the 1916 census for a while but it is gone and has been for more than 2 weeks now. To bad as I had not finished trying to find all the families.
take care
Carolyn

[duchessmac]

I found Janet Gall 26years aboard the Hesperian 28 June 1908- Dressmaker going to Winnipeg.
Images at http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e147/e003668747.jpg
hope this takes you there. If you know the ship and the date you can look at all the arrivals -
Carolyn

[sally]

Thanks for the link Carolyn which worked perfectly. The maifest I have only gives her name & age so it was good to get more info.

Regards
Sally

[sally]

Adele I am so sorry. I posted a reply to your 8.47 posting & would have been writing it when you posted the next 2 and until I just reread all postings just now I hadn't seen your 2 really important postings - 1916 & passenger list.

I have been going over everything I have for William MACKENZIE today & looking at various sites. I could have saved myself some time if I had noticed these 2 postings last night.

One of the things I have been researching today is linking William with Mary who is buried next to him. If I have the right birth for William his parents were Hugh & Mary both born in Scotland. (In with Mary is her son Roderick born 1891)

Can I ask if you would be good enough to check the 1916 for them please. I can't find them on the 1911 but also cannot find a family group going to Canada from the UK.

My search of the 1916 bought up MACKENZIE Rodrick (sic) b1891 Scotland and Russell b1897.

On the 1901 in Scotland there is Hugh & Mary with sons Roderick 1891, Norman 1895 & Russel 1897. None of the other children born before 1891 were with them on the 1901.

I only need to know if dad, Hugh, is with them - if there are any more of their children with them & going by the 1916 info you have given me -how long they had been in Canada. I can then have another go at finding a passage for them.

I have just noticed that on the passenger list you gave me that you have Hugh aged 27. My family seem to have juggled their ages to suit themselves so not worried about that but did it actually say Hugh and not William?

Regards
Sally

[AdeleE]

1916 census - 332 Arnold, Manitoba, Winnipeg South, 16
Roll: T-21934; Page: 24; Family No: 275

Mary MacKenzie, head, widowed, 62, b Scotland, immig 1912
John A MacKenzie, son, single, 30, b. Scotland, immig 1905. soldier
Rodrick MacKenzie, son, single, 25, b. Scotland, immig 1910, clerk post office
Russell MacKenzie, son, single, 19, b. Scotland, immig 1912, clerk post office.


I have just noticed that on the passenger list you gave me that you have Hugh aged 27. My family seem to have juggled their ages to suit themselves so not worried about that but did it actually say Hugh and not William?

Yes, definitely Hugh. But I didn't think that was too odd. My Scottish great uncle was Hugh Cameron McPherson, and always used his second name Cameron informally, but is found to be Hugh on official records.

Adele

[sally]

Thank you Adele. You have found the link to William through his brother John A and that the Mary (& son Roderick) on one side of his grave is his mother. It also means that the grave on the other side of William is this brother John A. who died in 1923 and has his soldier's number inscribed on the stone.

Regarding Hugh on the passenger list - His birth & marriage only have him as William but I have other ancestors with no middle names on certs but they have one on census info so anything is possible. The other people are correct for names & ages & was not unusual to change where they were born so will hope to catch Mary on the Scottish 1911 to see what it say's there.

Thanks again for all your help.
Regards
Sally