Smith, Webb, Little Gransden and Abbotsley

[fortuna]

John Smith born 1828 Little Gransden married Susan Ann Elwood 1852. 2 children Mary A Smith b. 1855 and Samuel Smith born 1857. Susan died between 1861 and 1864. 1871 census: John married to Sarah Ann Webb of Abbotsley in 1864. He has a son Samuel (14) and there is a daughter Martha A. (8) who could be wrongly named. Sarah has a son Edward Webb(10) and together they have my Grandmother Priscilla born 1865 in Little Gransden Cambs. Any info on John or Sarah much appreciated,
Fortuna

[davidcarca]

Not sure if you’re still looking for these people, but in case you are:

In 1851 Susan Elwood 17 unmarried born Gt Gransden, Hunts was a servant in the Virley household at Crows End Farm, Lt Gransden. (a John Smith 23 b Lt Gransden was living 2 farms away on the same page)

In 1841
HO107/453/8 folio 8B
High St, Gt Gransden
Samuel Elwood 29 ag lab
Mary Elwood 26
Susan 7; John 5; George 2; Samuel 8 mths

Hunts Marriage Index has marriage of Samuel Elwood and Mary Childerley in 1833 at Gt Gransden

Cambs FHS has an excellent website at http://www.cfhs.org.uk/Search.html which includes a baptism index 1801-37. There’s a John Smith baptised 1826 (25 Dec 1826 per BVRI) at Lt Gransden, son of Samuel and Jane, but he seems a couple of years too old given that John was 13 in 1841, and 23 in 1851 etc.

In 1841
HO107/68/14 folio 4A
Brook St, Lt Gransden
Elizabeth Smith 60 pauper
James Smith 30 ag lab
John Smith 13
William Smith 11
All born in Cambs

There’s a William Smith baptised 1829 (born 12 Sept 1829 bap 11 Oct 1829 per BVRI), also son of Samuel and Jane on the Baptism Index, so perhaps John’s census ages are wrong, or perhaps he never knew his date of birth if his parents died when he was young.

The Burial Index on the same site shows a Jane Smith age 34 buried at Lt Gransden in 1835

Samuel & Jane also baptised a son George on 30 Dec 1821, but I can’t see their marriage (Lt Gransden marriages are not on the BVRI)

Other baptisms on the BVRI in Lt Gransden
9 Apr 1853 Eliza Ann Smith dau John and Ann (I’m assuming that Ann and Susan Ann are the same person - the timing is right for it to have been John and Susan Ann)
8 Apr 1855 Mary Ann d of John & Susan Ann
14 Jun 1857 Samuel s of John & Ann
30 Jan 1859 William Henry s of John & Susan Ann
28 Feb 1860 Maria Ann d of John & Susan Ann
6 Jun 1861 Mark s of John & Susan Ann
7 Sep 1862 Martha d of John & Susan Ann
29 Jan 1866 (birth 8 Jul 1865) Priscilla d of John & Sarah
4 July 1869 Lizzie d of John & Sarah
16 Apr 1871 Clara d of John & Sarah
5 Jul 1874 Elizabeth Ann d of John & Sarah

Regards

David

[davidcarca]

Sorry, forgot to add the Sarah Webb details

Do you have the 1864 marriage certificate? Without it, it’s not possible to know if Sarah Ann was a widow or a spinster. There’s a Sarah Webb baptised in Abbotsley on 15 Jun 1834, daughter of William & Susan, labourer. Her brothers George and Joseph were baptised the same day, but there’s no indication of ages (taken from parish register transcript).

There’s a marriage in Abbotsley on 18 Sept 1856 between William Charles Clarke of full age otp labourer son of Edward Clarke labourer dec’d and Sarah Ann Webb of full age otp spinster dau of William Webb labourer; witnesses Joseph Webb and Mary Sandford. There’s also a baptism of Edward Clarke son of William and Sarah on 19 May 1861. There’s no Edward Webb baptism in Abbotsley. There’s also a baptism of Eliza Clark on 19 Sept 1858 daughter of William Charles and Sarah Ann and her burial aged 2 on 7 Apr 1861

In 1861 William Clarke, 31 born Arlesey Beds, Sarah Clarke 27 born Abbotsley, and Edward Clarke 1 month b Abbotsley were living in Abbotsley.

There’s no burial of a William Clarke in Abbotsley 1861-4 but FreeBMD has two in St Neots registration district, in Jun 1862 and Jun 1864.

This all looks right to be the Sarah who married John Smith, but why in 1871 Edward should have been enumerated under Sarah’s maiden name I cannot understand. (I see now that in 1881 he was Edward Clarke boarder 20 unmarried b Abbotsley in the household of John and Sarah Smith).

The marriage cert would definitely help confirm the above – it should state Sarah Ann Clarke formerly Webb.

Regards

David

[fortuna]

Wow! That is quite an incredible amount of information!

I have printed it out and will digest. I had given up on my Cambs. ancestors for a while as I knew I would have to buy 'another' certificate and have been concentrating on the emigration of three of Priscilla's children to Australia. Having been very successful there my thoughts were returning to Little Gransden! Opening this this morning is the push I needed.

I shall order the marriage cerificate of Sarah Ann today. Unfortunately I am in Spain and ot normally takes about 3 weeks but with the post as it is in UK and Spain I might get it by Christmas.

I am a bit confused as to which cert it would be best to buy! I feel it should be the John Smith one but I'm not sure. Do you have the reg details for both?

Thank you so much for your help look forward to your advice,
Regards, Fortuna

[fortuna]

Hi Don,

I have found a death for Susan Ann Smith (Elwood) on Ancestry - A,M,J 1864.

Children Mary A 1863 and Samuel 1857. (With John and Sarah in 1871)

As John remarried to Sarah A Webb (poss. Clarke) O,N,D 1864 I think maybe Mary is mistranscribed as Martha A on the 1871 census and she and Samuel could have been adopted by John and Sarah. But what happened to Eliza Ann 1853, William Henry 1859, Maria Ann 1860, Mark 1861 and Martha 1862? Surely they could not all have died?
It sounds awful but I am not really interested in them as they are an off shoot of the main family. Although it would be interesting to know what happened.

I certainly think you have found the right marriage - Webb and Clarke - I feel it is almost proved by the 1881 census that says Edward Webb is now Edward Clarke and living in the Smith household. As you say why he was called Webb in the beginning is a mystery.

I want to get the certificate but do you know if it was legal to marry in your maiden name as a widow. I don't know but would have thought she would have had to use Clarke.
It's true I can only find a Webb and Smith marriage in 1864 3b 1053 in Caxton. If she married as Webb would her previous husband be mentioned?

As before many thanks and advice please,
Fortuna

[fortuna]

I have just checked the deaths for the five children and they all died at about I year of age! How tragic is that?

[davidcarca]

Hi Fortuna

The marriage cert you need to prove everything (not that I have any doubts!) is the John Smith marriage to Sarah. Widows married under their married name with a note on the certificate giving the maiden name. I doubt it would have invalidated the marriage if she had married under her maiden name, but equally I doubt if her first husband would have been mentioned. You'll need to invest £7 to find out!

Regards

David

[fortuna]

Certificate ordered!