View Full Version : Garty. Ipswich, Suffolk.
15-02-2007, 6:09 AM
Searching for info on Harriet Hannah Garty Christened on 18 MAR 1832 at Ipswich, St Clements, Bts, Suffolk, England. Father John, mother Frances. This is from the LD Saints website.
John and Frances Hethersey immigrated to Sydney, Australia and in 1841 they lived in Parramatta NSW with 2 males (born in the Colony) plus 1 son born in UK and 2 daughters born in UK --this includes Harriet.
Any info on the Garty or Hethersey family will be appreciated.
Sorry for the misprints (e.g. 'greta and good' for 'great and good'). I forgot to say that John Garty's Carpenter Shipping descendants not only founded a shipping line (which linked the UK with India and Australia); at one time they also owned an airline, Air Pacific. This was bought out years ago by Quantas, among others. I believe that the Gulf of Carpentaria was named after them.
30-01-2008, 11:27 AM
I am afraid that I am a not an expert on John Garty's family, but I believe that he had a number of siblings. However, I can supply the following information:
A) Ethersey. As I understand it, the baronetcy is now extinct although there are plenty of descendants in the female line. They are well documented, as is usually the case with titled families.
B) Garty. The name is still extant. Mr John Garty the fifth (or sixth) now lives near Rockingham in Ireland, although I think that his children live in Australia.
Ethersey turns out to be a pretty rare name, associated with three areas of England; Suffolk (Ipswich area); Buckinghamshire and Worcestershire. The Suffolk branch seem to be the ancestral stock. The name is of course also found in London. Their fortune seems to have been founded on shipping; several of them were ship's captains and were later involved in exploration in Africa and Asia.
Garty is more mysterious. The name sounds Irish, but one source suggests that it is of Scots origin, from County Angus. Angus was the only county in which it was at all common. What both the Gartys and the Etherseys had in common was a very adventurous and entrepreneurial streak.
03-02-2008, 5:24 AM
Once again, many thanks for all the information you have been able to give me regarding my ancestors. They have certainly been hard to trace here. There are a few Gartys in New South Wales (and even in the Blue Mountains, where we live) though have not checked with any, as yet. When we lived in Co. Cork, Ire, between 1991-1996, we were in Galway checking on my mother's side. The woman in the Family History Museum told us that the name Garty was a corruption of the name Gerarty. However, I think that it could, as you say, originate in Scotland. When my grandmother, Florence Garty, married my grandfather, James Delaney, they married in the Manse of the Presbyterian Church. Florence's father was Ebenezer Hebar Garty (now that sounds a bit Scottish).
Frances Garty (Ethersey) is a tricky one. There is no death certificate available for her, and we wondered if perhaps she returned to England; or she could have moved to another State in Australia We have information that John and Frances had a second daughter, Harriet Hannah in 1832, after they had returned to England from Madras. Harriet was chistened at Suffolk. So, I need to undertake some more research on John and Frances. And thanks to you, Abbot, I have some more information to work on.
Glad to have been of assistance! It might be worth trying the online UK Directory, 192.com. This gives people's addresses and telephone numbers, but subscribers can also arrange searches of records of births, deaths and marriages and voters' rolls. If Frances Ethersey had returned to the UK, e.g. after her husband's death, you might be able to discover this through 192.com. There is also the National Archives (www.nationalarchives.gov.uk), whom I have found helpful. Since the Etherseys were a titled family, the College of Arms in London (www.college-of-arms.gov.uk) might have some material on them. It is very unlikley that the Etherseys did not have a coat of arms and arms, unlike the families that owned them, never die. They will be recorded in one of the volumes of matriculations held by the College. If you are very lucky, one of the Etherseys may even have recorded a 'birthbrieve'; a kind of illuminated family tree with pretty armoirial decoration, certified by the College. There is also a book available from reference libraries, 'Burke's Extinct and Dormant Peerage and Baronetage'. I hope that these leads are helpful. Abbot
05-02-2008, 1:56 PM
I was at Suffolk Record Office today and had a look at the baptism of Harriett. The date is as per IGI and the only additional information there was. John was stated as being a traveller and they were residing in Fore Street, Ipswich.
07-02-2008, 11:15 PM
Hi Suffolk Sue,
Thanks for looking this up, I'm supprised that John Garty is registered as a "Traveller" given that:
1) he was a Tailor and
2) that his wife (Frances) was apparently from a wealthy family.
This Harriett Garty married in New Zealand and the descendents there can not understand the connection to my John Garty.
Were there 2 John and Frances Gartys?
It is possible that there were two couples called John and Frances Garty and that they both ended up in Australia, but I think it fairly unlikely. Remember that 'traveller' has more than one meaning. Sir Richard Burton and his wife Isobel were great travellers, which does not mean that they were tinkers or commercial travellers! And John Garty does seem to have done some serious travelling/exploration at one stage. He may have preferred to be known as a 'traveller' (or explorer) rather than as the son of tailor or a person 'in trade'. Garty, like many poor but upwardly-mobile young men, joined the East India Company and made money. Old families have never been averse to marrying new money. Given that the Gartys were not at all prominent before the nineteenth century, I suggest pursuing the Ethersey family tree, which is likely to be better-documented.
21-03-2008, 3:10 AM
There was a Free Trial Viewing of 19th Century UK Newspapers and I found:
1 Death Notice for Frances, wife of John Garty, in Madras 22 June 1844, in the 41st year of her age, and there is mentioned that she was the eldest daughter of the late Richard Ethersey.
2 Death Notice for Elizabeth Ethersey 19th March 1864, Norwich Road, Ipswich. I think she was the wife of Richard.
Unfortunately I was not able to copy the details of the 2nd notice and there was a word in that notice relating to the relationship of Elizabeth and Richard, which I did not understand. SO, I am not absolutely sure if these two are the parents of my Frances.
At least I now know where Frances died and the year of her birth (1803) so now I need to track down WHERE she was born. I have not had any luck with FIBIS, maybe I'm not adept in using this site I can't find any reference to Frances at all.
21-03-2008, 9:02 AM
Date of burial: 10 Aug 1836
Age at death: 74
Calculated year of birth: 1762
Place of burial: Ipswich
ate of burial: 24 Mar 1864
Age at death: 88
Calculated year of birth: 1776
Place of burial: Ipswich
had a look at the notice in the newspaper and the word you wanted was RELICT, which means "widow of"
21-03-2008, 9:47 AM
IGI has the following marriage.
29th April, 1800 = Ipswich St. Matthew.
21-03-2008, 10:19 AM
According to the 1851 census Elizabeth was a proprieter of houses, born in Ipswich. Do you have access to the census details?
I can't find the Garty/Ethersey marriage on the Suffolk Marriage Index 1813 - 1837, so can only assume they married out of the county, or maybe not at all.
25-03-2008, 5:13 AM
Hello Suffolk Sue
Thanks for your email> Interesting that Elizabeth Ethersey is shown on the 1851 Census as a proprietor of houses. No, I don't have access to that Census.
Yes, John Garty and Frances Ethersey were married in Madras, India in 1828. There first child, Maria Elizabeth, was born there in 1829. They appeared to return to England in 1831, and Frederick and Harriet Hannah were born in Ipswich. We found them on the Australian Census of 1841, he as a retail shop owner, and this Census was in March 1841, just seven months before my g-grandfather, Ebenezer Hebar Garty was born. Another son, William, was born in 1834.
From a UK newspaper of 1844, (I think it was the Ipswich Journal) we found the death notice for Frances Garty. The notice was actually listed under the name Ethersey, Frances, and did mention her as "the beloved wife of John Garty", and that she had died on 22 June 1844 "after a protracted acute bodily suffering". So, we don't know if she was ill before she returned to Madras to visit family, or whether she contracted some disease during her visit.
The death notice said she was the eldest daughter of Richard. If you have the opportunity you might be able to track down the other children to Richard and Elizabeth.
25-03-2008, 9:29 PM
There are two children listed on the IGI for Richard and Elizabeth Ethersey.
James = 19th June, 1814 = St. Clement, Ipswich
Ann = 24th May, 1818 = St. Peter, Ipswich.
Ann is listed with Elizabeth in the 1841 census, living in Norwich Road. Elizabeth is down as independent.
25-03-2008, 9:35 PM
From the Ipswich Journal.
24th January, 1837 = Mr. James Ethersey, to Eliza Damant, second daughter of Mr. J. Damant of Westgate Street, both of this town.
James and Eliza are in Westgate Street in 1841, with Eliza aged 2yrs. James occupation is a land surveyor.
There is another child Susannah, aged 3yrs who is in nearby Nacton in what appears to be some sort of school.
1851, still has James and Eliza in Ipswich, James occupation this time is Ironfounders Engineers Account.
As well as children Susanna and Eliza, there are Caroline 4, Jane 2 and Lewis? Ann aged 5 months.
25-03-2008, 9:53 PM
In 1851 Elizabeth (mum) has another son with her a William, born c1801 in Ipswich. He is listed as a widower and his occupation, Lieut. Army retired, East I.C.
31-03-2008, 7:03 AM
Thanks for the new info.
So, it seems that Richard and Elizabeth Ethersey had 4 children, yet, it is strange that the birth of Frances is not listed in Ipswich.
From the dates you give for the other children, Frances could not have been born in India as I had thought unless there was a quick trip to India after William was born???
Oddly enough I thought that I had come across James Ethersey from this end of the world:
There is a James Ethersey who died in GUNDAGAI NSW (Ref.1588/1902)
"1902 ETHERSEY JAMES. No Dad or MUM given."
I have no idea if these 2 James Etherseys are the same person.
Thanks to you and Abbott and British Genealogy the bits and pieces are coming together.
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