Harleian Society transcriptions

[Colin Moretti]

Hello everyone

I have a marriage from St Pancras, 7 February 1763, (Hallett Forse of St Andrew’s, Holborn, to Elizabeth Mardin otp) "... by Licence from the Bishop of London". I have the Archive CD Books copy of the Harleian Society’s transcription of the Bishop of London’s Licences (1520-1828) but no such licence is listed.

Can anyone tell me any more about the transcript please; in particular does it claim to list all the licences (the CD and Harleian Society website supply no background information to the transcription)? Can anyone suggest an alternative explanation or shed any light?

Your comments will be appreciated.

Thanks

Colin

[Rod Neep]

The marriage was recorded as being "by licence" in the parish register, but that does not necessarily mean that the original licence survived to be transcribed.

Rod

[Mythology]

If I remember rightly, that one is very selective - I think that's why, having used the book, I didn't buy the CD and stuck to using the year by year calendars at the Guildhall Library instead - but let's test it.

Does it have:
Roger Talbot of Fulham to Mary Sanders of St Geo H Sq, 23 October 1767
Joseph Fitch of Edmonton to Mary Talbott of Stanningfield, 25 March 1826
?
They are both Bishop of London ones, on film at the Guildhall Library, allegation and bonds for the first, just allegation for the second as it's post 1823.

[Geoffers]

I have a marriage from St Pancras, 7 February 1763, (Hallett Forse of St Andrew’s, Holborn, to Elizabeth Mardin otp) "... by Licence from the Bishop of London". I have the Archive CD Books copy of the Harleian Society’s transcription of the Bishop of London’s Licences (1520-1828) but no such licence is listed.
Although the licence may not have survived, have you enquired to see if there is a Licence Allegation? Allegations were sort of applications for a licence, when one party swore that there was no impediment to marriage.

I have no idea about what exists for London as thankfully only very few of my family ever had a passing acquaintance with the place. Perhaps someone with a good knowledge of London records may be able to say if allegations survive and where.

Geoffers

[Mythology]

Where they are depends on whose licence it was. In this case we know it's a Bishop of London's one, so the answer is the Guildhall Library. There's a whole shelf full of the year-by-year calendars, right up to at least the 1870s, probably later, I haven't needed later stuff so the end date hasn't stuck in my mind.

Doubtless, like any collection of allegations (and bonds up to 1823, on separate films to the allegations, add an "E" suffix to the allegations film number for the one with the bonds) it's less than 100% complete, but there are certainly one heck of a lot of them and I haven't found one missing yet in my own stuff or ones I've looked up for friends.

[Mythology]

Colin.

If you are going there yourself, the calendars are on the shelves upstairs, to the right of the tables just before you go down again to the microfilm area, not on the shelves in the general reading area, but ...

In your case, of course, you don't need to check the calendar because you're not trying to use them to find a marriage or trying to find out whose licence it was from a vague "by licence entry", you know when it was and you know it's a Bishop of London one, so you could skip that stage - there's a list of the film numbers in a book on the table in the microfilm area where they have the parish register lists and so on.

[Colin Moretti]

Thanks everyone for your helpful responses.
...
Does it have:
Roger Talbot of Fulham to Mary Sanders of St Geo H Sq, 23 October 1767
Joseph Fitch of Edmonton to Mary Talbott of Stanningfield, 25 March 1826
?
They are both Bishop of London ones, on film at the Guildhall Library, allegation and bonds for the first, just allegation for the second as it's post 1823.
Nope. I guess that means it's another trip to the Guildhall for me!

It would have been helpful if somewhere in the transcript it had made a comment about being selective (mutter, mutter).
[Aside: I'm complaining about the Harleian Societry, not Rod]

...only very few of my family ever had a passing acquaintance with the placeLucky you - about half of mine are still mired in the great swamp of London parishes and when the surname is Hall ....!

Colin

[Colin Moretti]

Although the licence may not have survived, have you enquired to see if there is a Licence Allegation? I only found the marriage in the register yesterday on a trip to LMA so I've not had the opportunity yet. Anything found on one visit has to wait for the next to follow it up unless it's obvious. Advance planning helps to make the most of my infrequent trips to the London archives.

Colin

[Mythology]

"yesterday on a trip to LMA"

You should have worn a name tag so that I knew who you were. ;)

I was at the LMA yesterday afternoon/evening (after the Probate Office, Guildhall Library and St Bride Library) - if you'd asked then I'd have pointed you in the direction of a 153 bus straight away! :D

[Colin Moretti]

"yesterday on a trip to LMA"

You should have worn a name tag so that I knew who you were. ;)
...I don't need a name tag; I'm the one with a beard and glasses, long hair tied back in a bun (it's longer that Guy's in his photo) - usually very easily pick-outable :D I was there most of the afternoon, leaving about 6.30 (and at the Probate Office in the morning)!

Colin

[Linda]

I don't need a name tagNor does Myth....surely you cannot miss a pink elephant! :D

[Colin Moretti]

Thanks to Myth's helpful guidance I've now visited the Guildhall Library and tracked down both the allegation and bond; very useful they were too, revealing the bride's age and the groom's occupation.

They married 3 days after the date of the licence; why were they in such a hurry, I wonder? He was a widower, she a spinster aged 30 so perhaps she wanted to tie the knot before he had a chance to escape! :D

Thanks Myth (I suspect that |hug| is not really appropriate :D )

Colin