divorce pre 1933

[royston]

My Grandmother married for a second time in 1933. I believe her first husband (my Grandfather) to have lived until at least 1958. I do not have the second marriage certificate as yet, but have wondered if she married bigamously.
If she did divorce her first husband pre 1933 where could I find a record of this please. Any help greatly appreciated.
Roy

[Peter Goodey]

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=53

[royston]

Thanks for your reply, Peter.
Roy

[SueL]

Hi Royston,

I am going to Kew on Saturday and have, in the past, looked at Divorce records...would you like me to take a look for yours?

All I need is are the full names of your Grandparents and, as long as it isn't Smith, Jones or Brown, I may strike lucky ;)

Regards,
sueL

[royston]

Oh Sue, that is brilliant.
The names should make it easier. They were Henry (Harry) Crowcroft and Edith Sophia (nee Willett).
Thanks for your very kind offer, ROy

[SueL]

OK, then :)

To make it a little easier, when did your Grandfather and Grandmother marry?

If I trawl backwards from 1933, I'll know when to stop ;)

sueL

[royston]

Hi Sue, They married in 1902.
Roy

[SueL]

Hi Roy :)

I trawled the index today (backwards!) and got back to 1928 but no sign yet of ANY Crowcroft divorce...and then I ran out of time :(

However, Kew are open on the Thurs and Fri between Christmas & NY so I'm planning to be there again during that time.

If you don't mind waiting, I should be able to finish the trawl back to 1902. It probably won't be much longer than the period I've just done, as divorces weren't so common in the early days.

Hang on in there ;)
suex

[royston]

Hi Sue, I am so grateful for your effort. 1908 might be the cut off date as that was the year that my Mother was born. Presuming that they were still on speaking terms when she arrived.
Do have a very Merry Christmas and a happy New year.
Roy

[SueL]

OK, got it :) I'll go back to 1907, just to be sure ;)

I'll contact you after my visit - hang on in there...

and have a Good One yourself!
suex

[SueL]

Bad news, I'm afraid Roy :(

I finished trawling the divorce index backwards to 1907
(TNA refs J/78/7 to 16 covers 1907 to 1935) but regret I didn't find a single Crowcroft Divorce.

This could well indicate that she was still technically *married* when she went through the 2nd ceremony. However, if they'd been apart for years&years, could she have claimed the 7year bit about him being missing therefore presumed dead???

I've just looked back on your message and re-noted that the 1st marriage was in 1902 - if you'd like, I could check the years between 1907 and 1902? ...in case the 1907 baby was a "hiccup"? :o

sueL

[royston]

Hi Sue, I am so grateful for your efforts. If she divorced it would have been after the birth of my Mother (1908). So Granny could we have been a bigamist. As her second husband was a policeman I would have thought it rather risky, but from what my Father remembered about her she might well have been the type who did not care anyway.
Thanks again for your effort. Sorry to have been so long answering, you were a bit quick for me.
Happy New Year and goomessage=Hi Sue, I am so grateful for your efforts. If she divorced it would have been after the birth of my Mother (1908). So Granny could we have been a bigamist. As her second husband was a policeman I would have thought it rather risky, but from what my Father remembered about her she might well have been the type who did not care anyway.
Thanks again for your effort. Sorry to have been so long answering, you were a bit quick for me.
Happy New Year and good hunting on your on research, Roy

[Peter Goodey]

As indicated in the research notes that I suggested you looked at before, survival of case papers is shown as

1858-1927: almost all survive;
1928-1937: 80% survive (files from the district registries have been destroyed)

This implies that failing to find the case papers is not grounds for assuming that there was no divorce.

The definitive answer can only be obtained from the Principal Registry of the Family Division. The address is in the research notes.

[Mythology]

Yes, it's not something I've delved into a lot, but to the best of my knowledge Peter's right, as implied by that note, it isn't just the actual files that are missing in some cases, if the case files haven't survived, then they aren't indexed either.

I think you need Holborn.

Edit.
In other words (which might be clearer) J78 is only an index to J77 - not an index to all divorces including those for which the case files have not survived.

[Mythology]

The revamped Court Service website is a bit of a nightmare IMO, couldn't see anything about the fees (I expect they've gone up since I last used them) but I did find this which may help as (a) it has a slightly different phone number to that shown in TNA's leaflet, possibly specific to that department, and (b) it has an e-mail address:

Decree Absolute Search Section (020 7947 7017) (PRFD.decreeabsolutesearches@HMcourts-service.gsi.gov.uk) the Principal Registry of the Family Division holds a central index of all Decree Absolute granted in England and Wales from 1858 to date. This Section will also hold a central index of Final Dissolution Orders following the legislation changes in December 2005. This Section also deals with enquiries relating to Attachment of Earnings payments and Reciprocal Enforcements.

[Peter Goodey]

It certainly is a maze. However, hidden away in a dusty corner of the site I spotted this on fees:

On making a search in the index of decrees absolute kept at any divorce county court or District Registry for any specified period of ten calendar years or, if no period is specified, for the ten most recent years, and if appropriate, providing a certificate of decree absolute £10

[Mythology]

Funny you should say that - while you were typing I was still rummaging in hope and came across
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/docs/fees/guide_family_proceedings_fees_06042006.htm
which says:
6 Searches
6.1 On making a search in the central index of decrees absolute or of final orders kept at the Principal Registry of the Family Division for any specified period of ten calendar years or, if no such period is specified, for the ten most recent years, and, if appropriate, providing a certificate of decree absolute or final order, as the case may be
£25
:D

[Mythology]

So I think that probably means that if you don't know which local court to apply to for a search of their stuff and do it via Holborn for the complete index, it's £25 not £10.

:eek: It was a fiver the last time I did one!

[Peter Goodey]

Goodness knows what it all means.:confused:

Perhaps Royston will explain after he's contacted them

[Mythology]

Incidentally, I don't know if this is still the case (and I'm not going to plough through all the ifs buts and maybes to find out) but, if it's applicable, I've just remembered something. I ended up not paying the fiver. They were at Somerset House then, I was between jobs at the time and, when I handed in the form, the conversation went something like this:

(split due to duplication)

[Mythology]

Clerk: Do you want it posted or do you want to collect it?
Me: I may as well collect it, I'm not working at the moment, and there's a load of stuff I want at St Cath's, so I'll be in town quite a bit in the next few weeks.
Clerk: Oh! You're not working? Are you on benefit? If so you don't have to pay.
Me (being honest): Yes - but it's not for me, I'm just doing a friend a favour as I'm up here, save them travelling.
Clerk: That doesn't matter - you're the one who's applying for it.
:)

Friend said "Keep the fiver - I'd have had to pay it and you've saved me the tube fare".

:) :)

[royston]

Hi Peter, You and I both baffled by all of the conversation.
Thanks to all, Roy

[Mythology]

Apologies if bits thrown in here and there left you confused, Roy - let me try and sum it up.
J77 at The National Archives contains the surviving case papers.
J78, which SueL has been using, is an index to those - and only to those.
By using "Holborn", i.e., the Principal Registry of the Family Division, you will be asking for a copy of the decree - a separate index exists for these which is not at The National Archives. As a rough comparison with something more familiar, it's like buying a death certificate instead of getting a copy of the coroner's report.
I do not know your circumstances and it would be impolite to enquire, but if you are on benefit, it's worth mentioning, because you may find that you then do not have to pay the fee of (probably) £25 or (possibly) £10 which it would normally cost for a ten year search and the certificate if a divorce is found.

[royston]

OK thanks for the explanation. I now see what you were saying.
Roy

[bluegenes]

Sue I dont suppose youre going to kew any time soon?

I am searching for the divorce record of my grandparents, I know that they split up, but cannot be sure they actually went through divorce.

Grandfathers name is David Hearne, Grandmothers name Florence Hearne, nee Bennett.

They married in 1919 in southwark.

Thanks sue would be eternally grateful for your efforts.

[Geoffers]

The surviving records are now indexed online.

Use TNA's catalogue (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp)

In the word or phrase field enter - HEARNE
I'd leave the year range blank to begin with
In the department or series code enter - J77

If you get too many hits, try restricting the year range to the period from the known year of marriage to 1940 and see if that helps.

NOTE - This is just an entry in a catalogue, not the actual record itself. If you get a match - note down all the detail - you can then order a copy online from TNA, who will let you know the cost.

Try it for yourself and let me know how you get on - if you get completely stuck, please ask.

[SBSFamilyhistory]

Sue I dont suppose youre going to kew any time soon?

I am searching for the divorce record of my grandparents, I know that they split up, but cannot be sure they actually went through divorce.

Grandfathers name is David Hearne, Grandmothers name Florence Hearne, nee Bennett.

They married in 1919 in southwark.

Thanks sue would be eternally grateful for your efforts.


I could not find this one.. the only Florence getting a divorce was not married to a David

sorry

[bluegenes]

I could not find this one.. the only Florence getting a divorce was not married to a David

sorry

Thankyou, was it a Florence bennett or Hearne? what was the husbands name?

Thankyou again.

[bluegenes]

The surviving records are now indexed online.

Use TNA's catalogue (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp)

In the word or phrase field enter - HEARNE
I'd leave the year range blank to begin with
In the department or series code enter - J77

If you get too many hits, try restricting the year range to the period from the known year of marriage to 1940 and see if that helps.

NOTE - This is just an entry in a catalogue, not the actual record itself. If you get a match - note down all the detail - you can then order a copy online from TNA, who will let you know the cost.

Try it for yourself and let me know how you get on - if you get completely stuck, please ask.



Thanks Geoffers, was easy enough to use following your guidance, thankyou.

[SBSFamilyhistory]

Thankyou, was it a Florence bennett or Hearne? what was the husbands name?

Thankyou again.


Hearne....for both parties..


Sue