Help reading an old will

[kazuk]

Hi
I wondered if anyone could help me with reading an old will.

I have it as a PDF document it seems to be quite long and just looks like pages of squiggles to me.

I am finding it extremely frustrating as I can make out a couple of names which give me the hints that it may solve a puzzle i have been working on if i could only read it.

Anyway if any one could help i would be very grateful

Karen

[jeeb]

Hi Karen,
I'm willing to give it a try if you can scan it.
Jeremy

[kazuk]

Hi
that would be great

I have it on the computer as a PDF this may be a daft question but do I still need to scan it?

Karen

[Peter Goodey]

Just pop it on a website so we can all see it.

[kazuk]

Thanks

Hubby is as I write converting to jpegs to put online as none of his webhosts will accept PDF.

Meanwhile i have been having a bash at the first page myself its going very slowly with a lot of gaps LOL.

Karen

[Peter Goodey]

Hope he's converting it at a decent resolution! ;)

[kazuk]

Ok

here is a link to page one
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m64/baldylock54/will-01.jpg

I think its too small. hubby would like to know what you think and is looking at other possibilitys as photobucket automaticaaly reduces the size.

Karen

[kazuk]

This may be better

page 1 - http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs206&d=06365&f=will-01-crop.jpg

[Ann65]

Wills often have a lot of blurb about leaving their souls to God and all that kind of stuff before going on to the bits that interest genealogists.

Now my dad read some early 1600s wills for me, having taken time to learn the "old hands" some years back, BUT he is aged now, and I dont know that he could remember it, or have the patience for it, these days. I will however, ask for his help, if no one else can decipher it for you. (No promises mind, he may say no) in the meantime..... size is fine by the way....

Henry Methold Esq 72

This is the kast will and testament of me Henry Methold of Worthing in the county of Sussex Esquire................. and the rest is babble :D

[kazuk]

LOL even I got that bit. :D


Hubby has decided to go with the second host and has manged to get rid of the extra bits so page 2 is

http://xs206.xs.to/xs206/06365/will-02-crop.jpg

and page 3 is

http://xs206.xs.to/xs206/06365/will-03-crop.jpg

more to follow

[Ann65]

All I can say is, the very best of luck!!

[kazuk]

page 4 http://xs206.xs.to/xs206/06365/will-04-crop-grey.jpg

page 5 http://xs206.xs.to/xs206/06365/will-05-crop-grey.jpg

page 6 http://xs206.xs.to/xs206/06365/will-06-crop.jpg

4 and 5 had to slightly resized to greyscale apparantly and I'm afraid there is yet mre to follow sorry

Karen

[kazuk]

The last three

Page 7 http://xs206.xs.to/xs206/06365/will-07-crop.jpg
Page 8 http://xs206.xs.to/xs206/06365/will-08-crop.jpg

and finally
page 9 http://xs206.xs.to/xs206/06365/will-09-crop.jpg

many thanks for anything anyone can do to help with this.

Karen

[Mythology]

Well, with my typing ability, I'm afraid there's no way I'm going to sit here and bash out nine pages - I'm slow enough working from a paper copy, and on a computer one where I have to keep switching windows it would literally take me a week to type up that lot!

However, if it helps to get things going, here are some names from the first page:

In lines 3 and 4:
"my Brother Edward Methold late of the nineteenth Lancers Esquire and William Hugh Dennett of Worthing aforesaid Gentleman"

In line 16 if I haven't lost count:
"Jemima Twine the daughter of William Twine of Worthing aforesaid and Anne his Wife and who is now residing in my dwellinghouse in Worthing aforesaid"

[Mythology]

Also, starting towards the end of the fifth line up from the bottom, there is mention of a London property:
"my leasehold messuage or dwellinghouse and premises situate and being No.17 in Hans Place Sloane Street in the Parish of Saint Luke Chelsea in the County of Middlesex which I purchased of the Reverend Mr. Vivian"

Hope that helps.

If you know anyone who is going to Kew and has the time to spare, the actual will instead of this registered copy will probably be a darned sight easier to read, and on a DIY basis rather than ordering it from TNA, won't cost much to copy.
From the catalogue, it'll be in either PROB10/7190 or PROB10/7191, they both include "M" for February 1856, so can't tell which of the two, they'd need to order both boxes.

[Mythology]

This looks rather interesting. I am hampered by having no ink for the printer, otherwise I'd print the darned thing out - with the size of my screen, it's too small for comfortable reading when made to fit the width, and too easy to lose track of the lines at full size, and I'm basically just having a quick flip through for names, not actually reading it, but ...

Jemima Twine is the daughter of William and Anne Twine, so, unless she's married a cousin or something, is unmarried, right?

She crops up a heck of a lot and, on page 4, I notice:

(continues - not trying to keep you in suspense, just that I'll have to split this to avoid the dreaded repeating text bug!)

[Mythology]

"Henry Twine the son of the said Jemima Twine who was baptized in the Parish of Sidlesham in the County of Sussex on or about the eighth day of November one thousand eight hundred and thirty five
<snip>
Edward Twine another son of the said Jemima Twine and who was baptized at Broadwater in the said County of Sussex on or about the fifth day of June one thousand eight hundred and forty two
<snip>
Mary Ann Twine Georgiana Twine Maria Twine and Catherine Twine the four daughters of the said Jemima Twine who were respectively baptized at Broadwater aforesaid on the fourth day of February one thousand eight hundred and thirty eight the eighth day of November one thousand eight hundred and forty and the twenty fourth day of September one thousand eight hundred and forty and the sixteenth day of February one thousand eight hundred and forty five"

(continues)

[Mythology]

The baptism dates don't look right to me, two girls allegedly both 1840, with the September one being listed after the November one, so I would think that either there's a marginal note which hubby has cropped out or, more likely as I don't see an insertion mark, a clerical cock-up, and Maria is probably later than 1840, but, whatever, if you have your Henry with a similar load of "Methold" kids and can't find a marriage for him, now you know why!

Edit: Had a feeling Broadwater was on the IGI, so had a look - Maria's baptism is given there as 24 September 1843, so 1840 is indeed a cock-up of some sort for her. Mother Jemima Twine, no father listed, so I guess that's that.

[kazuk]

If you are at all interested in some background then here goes

Maria Cragg formerly Methold is listed as the mother on one of my hubbys Great grandfathers BCs.

From Cenus returns I believe she lived from abt 1844 to 1880 in Worthing.

The only entries for Maria Methold anywhere on Ancestry are for the 1851 and 1861 Census.

In 1851 she is listed as the daughter of Henry Methold
In 1861 as the daughter of a widowed Jemima Methold.

Henry Methold is shown in 1841 with 3 children plus several servants one of whom is Jemima Twine and in 1851 with more children and Jemima Twine is still there. There is no wife for Henry shown in either census.

Henry dies in abt 1855

In 1861 1871 1881 and 1891 Jemima is head of the household as Methold with several Methold offspring on each no sign of her in 1901.

The only death I can find is of Jemima Twine in 1896.
I cannot find a marriage between Henry Methold and Jemima Twine
I cant a birth for Maria Methold.

So i am hoping the will might shed some light as to what was really going on.

[Mythology]

We posted at the same time.

"I cant a birth for Maria Methold."

See the edit to my previous - she wasn't born Maria Methold, she's Jemima Twine's illegitimate daughter, with Henry Methold pretty obviously being the father of Maria and the others, and Jemima herself later using the Methold name - fairly standard practice!

[kazuk]

It looks like that is indeed the case - I think i may have to invest in Maria's marriage certificate to Frederick Cragg when funds allow to see what that says.

A kind volunteer on another list i am on has had a stab at the first four pages and although i find it hard to understand even when typed in times new roman It appears that Henry Methold is leaving everything in Trust to Jemima and after her death to whichever of her children manage to live past the age of 21. Which would indeed suggest to me that they were his children. Whilst i can imagine someone being generous to a trusted and faithful servant I cant imagine them extending the same generosity to that servents many offspring.

[Mythology]

"The only death I can find is of Jemima Twine in 1896."
That makes sense - not uncommon to find that somebody reverts to their "real" name on a death cert because the informant knew what the score was.

"I cannot find a marriage between Henry Methold and Jemima Twine"
Well, no, in view of what's turned up in the will, which is dated 20 March 1854, unless there's a late marriage between then and when he fell over 'cos he finally decided to "make an honest woman of her" - unlikely as she's Twine at death - you're not going to, are you?

[Mythology]

"It appears that Henry Methold is leaving everything in Trust to Jemima and after her death to whichever of her children manage to live past the age of 21. Which would indeed suggest to me that they were his children."

Yes, you've got it, that's about the size of it - and, as you suggest, I don't see him doing that just out of the goodness of his heart. Given that, from what you said of the 1841, Jemima is already with him then and we have kids (including your Maria, of course) after then who are Methold on the census but Twine in the will, he hasn't just taken pity on some poor lass who brought along a couple of illegitimate kids, has he? They're obviously as good as married but just didn't bother with that silly piece of paper. ;)

[Mythology]

I expect your list member has probably got to this bit by now anyway, but, another snippet - on page 5, Henry says that he wants to be buried in Goring, so if you can't find a Worthing burial, that's where he should turn up.

[kazuk]

Just out of interest (I am forever going off at tangents) a quick google of 17 Hans Place suggests that it is/was Hill house school the first school prince charles went to.

Well I never!

[Mythology]

And a slight amendment.
I said "the will, which is dated 20 March 1854" - because I'd looked at the last page. From page 6, the will itself is dated 20 March 1845, being followed by a codicil. Coincidence that in both cases it's 20 March? - or perhaps it was his birthday?

[Mythology]

"a quick google of 17 Hans Place suggests that it is/was Hill house school the first school prince charles went to."

Oh gosh! I suppose I'll have to pay you a shilling for every reply I type now! :D

[Mythology]

In the codicil ...

"Henry Twine mentioned in my said Will has died and Jemima Twine also mentioned in my said Will has given birth to four other children namely John Twine who was baptized at Broadwater in the said County of Sussex on or about the twenty sixth day of April one thousand eight hundred and forty six Charles Twine who was baptized at Broadwater aforesaid on or about the twenty eighth day of November one thousand eight hundred and forty seven Ellen Twine who was baptized at Broadwater aforesaid on or about the twenty fourth day of March one thousand eight hundred and fifty and Charlotte Twine who was baptized at Broadwater aforesaid on or about the sixth day of July one thousand eight hundred and fifty one"

Attagirl Jemima, keep going - I'm sure you must fit in to my tree somewhere. ;)

[Mythology]

And she did. That codicil is dated 22 December 1852 - the 1854 date at the tail end is *another* codicil, in which we find ...

"the said Jemima Twine has given birth to another child namely Florence Mary Twine who was baptized at Broadwater in the said County of Sussex on or about the fourth day of December one thousand eight hundred and fifty three"

That's the lot, I've gone through to the end now. No wonder it's so long for so little - all the legalese has been written three times to amend the sharing out, because of the extra kids.

[kazuk]

LOL I think there is another codicil to go yet

as far as i can make out from the cenus there are 12 children including the Henry who sadly died. Not a lot left i should imagine by the time it was all shared out.

Mind you Maria did okay for herself as far as i can tell (apart from the early death of course) her frederick was a butcher and from what I can guess from census addresses they were doing fairly well.

[kazuk]

I think our posts crossed

There is another younger child Alice age 5 on the 1861 census so born probably just before or just after Henry died hence not added to the will I wonder if that means she missed out.

[Mythology]

No, there's only the two codicils - I had another look in case something was closely written and I hadn't noticed the gap in flicking through, but, no, and the probate note says "Proved at London 19th February 1856 with two Codicils" so we've got all those who are named.

In the will - Henry, Edward, Mary Ann, Georgiana, Maria, Catherine - that's six.
In the first codicil - John, Charles, Ellen, Charlotte - that's four, so ten total.
In the second codicil - just Florence Mary, so eleven total, which means we are one short.

Edit - yes, we cross-posted, just read yours re Alice, so had a look and she's on the IGI, no birth date but baptised 2 October 1855. Henry is an 1855 December quarter death, so I guess he didn't expect to fall over straight away and didn't get around to making another codicil to include her.