Mack Family of Cross Keys Inn Brampton

[Miss Daisy]

Hello I'm new to this forum,hope someone will be able to help. I'm trying to find out how far back my family goes as licencees of the Cross Keys public house in Brampton.My grt.grt Grandfather James Mack was publican in 1841 census . However my family always said that the Mack's were there from the 1700's. I know that the Coltishall brewery auctioned the Pub in the 1700's.
The pub is still there but is a private residence now. I remember spending summer holidays there as my grandparents lived there until they died, my aunt who still lives in Brampton lived there until the late 1950's. Any help would be appreciated.I started researching the family tree and then got facinated by the Cross Keys itself.

[Peter Goodey]

Quarter Session records usually, if available. Norfolk Record Office would seem to be the place and they offer a research service.

http://archives.norfolk.gov.uk/documents/pdf/NRO002_Research_Service.pdf

[Geoffers]

As well as Peter's suggestion,

The Norfolk Pubs site
http://www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/index.htm
indicates that copyhold was to the manor of Buxton. It may be worth trying the records for the manors of Buxton to see if there is mention of the family in any copyhold transfer. There were four manors in Buxton, the principal one for which most records survive is Buxton Levishaw. The other manors are listed on the Buxton web-site http://www.buxton-norfolk.co.uk/
click on the 'Village History tab' and then follow the link to manors.

The family may have left wills which would help you. Try searhing the index to probate records on NROCAT - starting at the NRO web-site
http://archives.norfolk.gov.uk/nroindex.htm
scroll down to 'Summary of collections' and click on the NROCAT link.
continued.....

[Geoffers]

part 2....

Your James MACK mentioned on the Norfolk pubs site appears to have been baptised:

Brampton (ATs)
7 Mar 1802, James MACK son of William and Ann (late WRIGHT, widow) - born 1 Mar 1802

William WRIGHT, sm otp mar Ann WRIGHT, wid, otp at Brampton after banns on 16 Nov 1801, wit: John HUDSON, John DIX.

Ann WRIGHT - widow may have been the Ann HUDSON who had married John WRIGHT at Brampton on 10 Oct 1791.

Brampton is one of three small parishes (the others being Oxnead and Burgh-next-Aylsham) between Aylsham (to the north) and Buxton (to the south). You'll find quite a lot of movement of local families between these places. But the William MACK above may have been:

Brampton (ATs)
Born 18 May 1766, William MACK son of William & Elisabeth (bapt eodem)

Geoffers

[Geoffers]

Further to the above, NROCAT shows that quite a few manorial records survive for Brampton, using the search engine enter 'Brampton with the members' and then search, you should get a list of quite a few documents which may be of use in reasearching your family and its association with the parish and pub.

Gaining access to them from where you live may be another problem, unless they have beenc opied onto film and are available at one of the mormon (LDS) record centres.

Geoffers

[Miss Daisy]

Thanks you guy's I will try your suggestions.
Ann Wright was married to John Wright and had 2 children to him.
My Aunt still lives in Brampton, but trying to get her to talk about the family is difficult, especially as she doesn't like using the telephone but at 86 I'm sure she knows more than she is saying. Every time I speak with her I learn a little more.
Hopefully when I'm back in the U.K at Christmas I may be able to get more out of her, I'm sure she will have documents that will be usefull to me.
Thanks again

[miss-smith]

Hi Miss Daisy
I am, also, a descendant of James Mack.
His daughter Elizabeth is my second great grandmother.
She was born in Dec 1837 and married Thomas Hunt on 19 Nov 1856 (In The Parish Church, Swanton Abbot)
Although it is a few years since you posted your message, hope we can get in touch!
Kind regards
Leigh

[Miss Daisy]

I have sent you a p.m

[Tulipa]

Hi, We are tracing the Mack family - our branch were in Buxton, Norfolk - many of them in the churchyard there. The family later moved to Bradford after the death of Robert Mack. We went to see your aunt in Brampton (sent there by Mr Spinks) and think we may be distantly related - helped by a history of red hair in the family!! We spent nearly a week in the area checking out churchyards ( good weather thankfully) and made notes of all the Macks that we could find so some may be of use to you.
Best wishes Pat

[Geoffers]

Welcome to the B-G forums


Hi, We are tracing the Mack family - our branch were in Buxton, Norfolk

Which MACK family are you related to? The earliest reference to MACK in Buxton recrods is 1757 with the marriage of Robert MACK and Ann GREEN


The family later moved to Bradford after the death of Robert Mack

Which Robert?

Robert MACK, aged 56, buried 1795
Robert MACK, aged 68, buried 1842
Robert Dunning MACK, aged 30, buried 1854
Robert MACK, aged 57, buried 1857

PS. I'm not related to the family, but have a collection of records for Buxton.

[Tulipa]

Geoffers,

Apologies for not responding sooner. In answer to your queries it was my gg grandad Fred Mack, b1849 who migrated to Bradford via a short stay in Leeds with his Mum Elizabeth Maria (nee Carter) Mack and his two brothers Robert Edward Mack, b1845 and Harry Charles Mack, b1852 after the death of their father Robert Dunning Mack, b1824 and d1853 aged 30yrs. His dad was Robert Mack b1794 and who out lived his son by 3yrs and died in 1857 "aged 64yrs" according to his grave stone.

I have a copy of the Will of Robert Mack, b1774 who died in Buxton in 1842 aged 68yrs which confirms amongst other things that his Grandson was Robert Dunning Mack. From Parish Records this Robert was the the 3rd son to bear this name of Robert Mack, born c1733 and Ann Green (the 1st two having died young). We have not found a record of burial or birth for this Robert and so would be very grateful for any suggestions and further info on this my 6xg grandad.

Best wishes Pat

[Geoffers]

my gg grandad Fred Mack, b1849 who migrated to Bradford via a short stay in Leeds with his Mum Elizabeth Maria (nee Carter) Mack and his two brothers Robert Edward Mack, b1845 and Harry Charles Mack, b1852 after the death of their father Robert Dunning Mack, b1824 and d1853 aged 30yrs......I have a copy of the Will of Robert Mack,

I'll have a look through my records later this morning but in the meantime don't forget that as well as the will of Robert MACK, you can also download the admin bond for Robert Dunning MACK from Norfolk Sources (http://www.norfolksources.norfolk.gov.uk/)

There seem to have been at least a couple of Robert MACKs who were more or less contemporary in the 18th century in Aylsham and Buxton. The ol'bor who was baptised in Ayslahm in 1735 may be the same one who died in 1812 (age given as 75).

[Geoffers]

Apologies for not responding sooner. In answer to your queries it was my gg grandad Fred Mack, b1849

Thanks, I'm always nosy about those with Buxton ancestry, my one-place-study currently has a little over 15,000 entries and I'm curious about what happened to Buxton families.


I have a copy of the Will of Robert Mack, b1774 who died in Buxton in 1842 aged 68yrs which confirms amongst other things that his Grandson was Robert Dunning Mack

........and I see that Robert Mack inherited the wherry 'Industry' - always nice to see mention of these boats.

Looking at my records I have:

Robert MACK married Ann GREEN
They appear to have had
Robert 1758, James 1760, Martha 1761, Ann 1763, Robert 1764, Stephen 1767, Elizabeth 1768, John 1770, 'Ealice' 1772, Robert 1774 and James 1778.

The third Robert married Mary Ann MIDDLETON and they in turn fathered Robert who married Elizabeth DUNNING in 1821. They had four children, two of whom, Jane and Robert are mentioned in the 1842 will of their grandfather.


From Parish Records this Robert was the the 3rd son to bear this name of Robert Mack, born c1733 and Ann Green (the 1st two having died young). We have not found a record of burial or birth for this Robert and so would be very grateful for any suggestions

There are two burials of Robert about the right time:

Buxton 1795 Robert MACK aged 56 (birth circa 1738-9).

Oxnead 1801 Robert MACK, widower aged 69 (birth circa 1731-2).

[Tulipa]

Geoffers

Thanks for the quick response and look ups it is much appreciated.

Our own research has unearthed much of what you've provided with the exception of the Burial in Buxton for Robert Mack in 1795 aged 56yrs. We've not seen this before in the records and would be interested in the source since it is the most likely record for my 6xg grandad , the husband of Ann Green.

The Oxnead burial for Robert Mack in 1801, widower aged 69 is also a possible candidate but less likely.

Thanks again. The link to Norfolk Sources was also brilliant advise since I've just found the Will of William Barton with one of the executors being Robert Mack of Buxton, Farmer and Bricklayer which also has one of the Testator's daughters as Mary Russell the wife of John Russel, Watchmaker. There is a link here with our Mack family since James Russell b1822 married Martha Mack b1825 and the two families lived next door to one another in 1841

Best wishes Pat

[Geoffers]

Our own research has unearthed much of what you've provided with the exception of the Burial in Buxton for Robert Mack in 1795 aged 56yrs. We've not seen this before in the records and would be interested in the source

Norfolk Record Office PD160/3 Buxton Parish Register
26th July 1795 Robert MACK aged 56 years.


The link to Norfolk Sources was also brilliant advise since I've just found the Will of William Barton with one of the executors being Robert Mack of Buxton, Farmer and Bricklayer

It is a very good resource also with the link through to NOAH (which in turn searches Picture Norfolk).

Have you used the survey and associated map from 1833 in PD160/71 and PD160/72? These show precise location and holdings of families within the parish.

[Tulipa]

Geoffers

Thanks again. We've now trawled through our records dating back 5yrs or more and found the burial listing for Robert Mack in Buxton, 1795 aged 56yrs (must get more organised). When we visited Norwich last month we spent some time in the Records Office and the Norfolk Family History Society prior to touring round places of interest such as Buxton, Brampton, Aylsham and Norwich etc. Before venturing afield we particularly wanted to see a copy of the Parish Survey Map of 1833, which we did find and took a number of photos since Robert Mack "occupied" or had tennants on his various parcels of land / properties in Buxton. Of most interest was his land and properties at the end of Mill Street near the water mill since this is where we believe he lived on the opposite side of the street to where his coal shed was located near the River Bure and where he would have moored his wherry. He also built one or more of the houses still standing at this end of Mill Street. He had other land off Norwich Road alongside Bull Beck and nearer to the Black Lion pub.

Best wishes Pat