more on travelling families

[Ann65]

want to hear from anyone connected with the Gray gypsies who travelled Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Cambridge, and to a lesser extent, Suffolk.

Am descended from Christopher Gray b.1815 Thurlby Lincs, d.1869 Wrawby, when he was killed by a runaway horse and gig, and his wife, Maria Gray, b.1817 Willoughby Notts, daughter of William Smith (of Coleorton Leic) and Ann Elliot or Elliott (of Willoughby).

Also descended from Thomas Smith b.circa 1825 Skillington Lin, and his wife Mary Smith b.circa 1830, nee Brown.

Some of the Smiths married into the Grays, some the Elliotts, and some the Browns. Some of these have direct link to the Heron and Boss Pedigrees. (for instance, Stephen Smith married Isabella Pierce, dtr of Eldred Pierce).

Eldred Pierce married into the Heron family, as did his brother Stephen, they married two sisters, Morette/Miseretta/Mretta and Tierney/Tienna Heron. A third sister, Cinderella Heron married Richard WINTER. She was born cir 1832.

I am loosely related to the Grays of Norfolk - Founess and Constance, Oseri Gray and Eliza Heron (daughter of No Name HERON (I have seen his grave, with that of Tyso Boswell, and have newspaper reports of their deaths in 1831 at Tetford Lin, when struck by lightening.) Also related to Esther Tansey nee Gray, Genty Gray/Smith d.1918 Gorleston, Naomi Gray etc etc
Please contact me if anything here is familiar.

[JoanneM]

Hello,

I've been researching my OH's ancestry, and he has connections with Gray and Smith gypsies in Lincolnshire - don't recognise the names you have mentioned but though I'd post in case the names are relevant to you.

I have Eldria(Eldery?) Gray (sometimes Mobbs) born c.1821 in Winsley, Northamptonshire and died 1862 in Lincoln who married Moses Smith who was born c.1816 in Harby, Leicestershire. Their son Rabbi Smith, born c.1855 in Nettleham, Lincs is my OH's ancestor.

Eldria Gray is the daughter of James Gray (Mobbs), born c.1795 and Bertha Smith born c.1800 in Seaton Rutland, daughter of Wisdom and Hannah Smith.

Also I have Sylvestia Smith, born c.1838 in Cabourne/Caistor, daughter of Dennis Smith and Eleanor Charlotte, born c.1817, Gamlingay. Eleanor's parents were John Charlotte and Sophia Smith, both of whom settled in Kirton in Lindsey.

Any links at all?

Jo.

[Ann65]

Oh YES, I have researched this family.


From what Ive been able to glean thus far James Gray b.cir 1795 married Bertha/Bethania/Bethany Smith d/o Wisdom & Hannah, b.1800 Seaton, Rutland.

I dont know where this James came from, but he certainly went by the alias Mobbs, as did the children.

Children I have been able to find thus far are:

Eldria/Elderi/Elden Gray b.cir 1821 Winsley Nthants married Moses Smith c.1816 Harby Leic s/o Thomas & Sylvia.

Joshua Gray/Mobbs b.cir 1821-30 Ingham, Lincs married Harriet b.cir 1841 Blyborough Lin.

Righteous Gray C.1827 Elkesley Notts married Sagey Heron c.1836 Broughton Northants

Cornelius Gray c.1827 Elkesley Notts

Elias Gray b.cir 1844 Abbots Rippon Hunts married Amelia Heron sister of Sagey, c.1845 Haddington Nthants

Francis Gray/Mobbs b.cir 1835 Boston Lin, married Selina b.cir 1835

Johina Gray b.cir 1837

Moses Gray/Mobbs c.1840 Corringham Lin married Silvia Smith c.1841 d/o Robert & Tabitha.

It is worth adding that the latest discovery I have made is that Bethania Smith also had a liason (not uncommon in Romany circles) with William Gray c. 1791 Ashwell Hrts, who ended up with her sister, Tabitha Smith c.1803 Cropwell Bishop Northants. This William and Bethania were parents of William Gray c.1822 Ancaster Lincs who married Salome Ellen/Lumi Ellen Boyling (c.1823 Scampton).

[Ann65]

Mobbs and Grays


Elderi Gray and Moses Smith had:

Thomas b.cir 1840 Harby Leic married Siberamily "Sibby" Smith b.cir 1840 Northampton
Sophia b.cir 1841 Harby Leic
Emma b.cir 1845 Normanby Lin
John b.cir 1850 Bishops Norton Lin
Rabbi Smith b.cir 1857 Nettleham Lin married Deloraine or Delorina b.cir 1851 Worksop
Sarah b.cir 1851 Willowson


Joshua Gray/Mobbs and Harriet had:

William b.cir 1853 Barrow Lin
Elijah "Lasher" b.cir 1856 Rand or Stockton Lin
Moses b.cir 1862 Barkwith Lin
Reajiel? b.cir 1864 Mkt Rasen Lin
Uriah b.cir 1869 Mkt Rasen Lin poss the Uriah Mobbs d.1940 Lincoln Workhouse, buried Newport Cem, married Mary Ann Wain in 1900.
Charles b.cir 1872 Mkt Rasen
Mary Ann b.cir 1875 Mkt Rasen


Righteous Gray and Sagey Heron had:
Alfred, Samuel, Nathan, Edward and Emily and settled at Kingsthorpe Nthants


Elias Gray and Amelia had:
Abigail b.1867 Kingsthorpe married Iza Heron s/o Isaac
Mary b.cir 1869 Halesowen Worc married Alfred Smith
Mizelli/Marcelli b.cir 1871 Walsall Stf
Sunpoleon "Poley" aka George b.cir 1876 Bloxwich Stf married Jane Smith
Matilda b.cir 1878 Walsall Stf married 1) Tom Winter b.cir 1858 Huddersfield, m1897
and 2) Rabbi Smith b.cir 1875 Kelsale Sfk, m.1928


Francis Gray/Mobbs and Selina had:

Cornelius b.cir 1860 Belton Lin
Avelin b.cir 1864 Astoft Yks (Altofts?)
Elisha b.cir 1867 Gainsborough Lin
Bethany b.cir 1868 Sheffield Yks
Delarina b.cir 1869 Yorkshire


Moses Gray/Mobbs and Sylvia Smith had:

Righteous b.cir 1860 Gainsborough married Lucy Rodgers 1882
Cornelius b.cir 1863 Springthorpe married Elizabeth Ellmore 1881
Levi b.cir 1865 Lincoln married Mary Ellen Gabbitas 1886
Mary J b.cir 1867 Tresswell Nott
James b.cir 1870 Gainsboro d.1953 Scroby Cem Scunthorpe, married Sophia 1875-1963
Elizabeth b.cir 1873 Gainsboro
Florence b.cir 1875 Gainsboro

[Ann65]

I dont know of this family. I do know some of the Grays used to forename Sylvest(i)a for some of their girls, so they probably knew the family involved. Doesnt help that Smith is such a common surname. The only Dennis on the IGI is one c.1820 Bourne, Cam, s/o Shadrach and Martha. But they had three children baptised in the same village. Its certainly not unheard of for that to happen, but it makes me wonder if he is the right guy.


Have never looked into the Charlotte Family. But a quick look at the IGI reveals John Charlotte and Sophia having:

Edmund c.1822 Hickling Nthants
Helena (Eleanor) c. 1817 Gamblingay Cam
John c.1834 Welton Le Marsh Lin
James c.1835 Scredington Lin

Now Gamblingay and Scredington are two places I have seen the Grays stopping.

Sophia appears on the 1871 and 1881 census in Kirton in Lindsey as a widow, born cir 1793-6 in either Lincs or Leics. This is a possible link to my Smiths as they came from Coleorton Leic about the same time. There is a death for a John Charlotte registered Jun Qtr 1860 in Glanford Brigg dist 7a 391.

John Charlotte b.cir 1834 at Welton is almost certainly the John Charlot b.cir 1835 Lincoln who turns up in Hunslet Yorks in 1881. He is a clothes peg maker, and is living with Tennant Smith and family - another clue to the Smiths.

A look for James Charlotte turns up two possible James. The one born cir 1835 appears to be at 6 Cross Key Yard Mansfield, Notts, in 1881 (born cir 1832) and married to Etty b.cir 1852 Retford Notts. He is a Grinder.

A James Charlotte also turns up in 1871 b.cir 1849 Lincoln at Hunslet. He is married to a Mary and they are living with Elizah (Elijah?) Hawn (Heron??) and his wife Dinah. James also turns up on the 1851 census with his parents, Sistance Charlot and Lemontina Boswell at Ulceby Lin. Sistance claims a birthplace in Cambridgeshire, about 1820. This would put him in line to be another of Johns children, as almost certainly not all of them are on the IGI. This James was baptised 16.03.1849 Welton By Lincoln s/o Leiston Charlotte and Lamentina.


Even more confusingly, another James turns up b.cir 1826 Brigg, at Alverthorpe cum Thornes Yks in 1881. He is a peg maker, and married to Priscilla b.cir 1831 Cooper Bridge Hunts.

[JoanneM]

Such a lot of information - thank you.

At the moment I'm assuming Rabbi Smith, born c.1855 Nettleham is my husbands ancestor.
He is descended from a daughter Delorina had, Sarah Ann Smith, baptised as illegitimate in Gainsborough in 1872. Rabbi and Delorina married in 1874 in Gainsborough (Delorina didn't list a father on her marriage certificate). In the 1881 census they are living at Dawsons Court in Lincoln with various Smith, Gray and Mobbs families. Sarah Ann is listed as a daughter of Philistia and Emily Smith. In 1891 she's back with Rabbi and Delorina, and when she married she named Rabbi as her father.

However, I do think that Delorina's family is linked with Rabbi's and so I'm tracing Rabbi's family back and trying to prove a link to Delorina to establish who her parents are.

In 1881 one of the families living with them is Francis Mobbs (Gray) born c.1835 Boston. They've got a daughter called Delerina, as you've mentioned. I think I've found Francis in 1841 in Wymondham - there are three families living together.

Robert Smith, 50, brazier, y
Evening Smith, 40, y
Noah Smith, 14, y
Robert Smith, 11, y
Thomas Smith, 7, y

Silvia Smith, 65, net maker, n
Moses Smith, 20, y
Violet Smith, 20, y
Thomas Smith, 20, n
Silvia Smith, 13, y
Meclare Smith, 12, n
Hasy Smith, 15, y
Thomas Smith, 11 months, n

Elston Gray, 15, n
James Mobs, 45, chair mender, y
Betty Mobs, 25, y
Sabrina Mobs, 4, n
Francis Mobs, 2, n

If I'm right the Moses Smith aged 20 is Rabbi's father. (Meclare and Hasy Smith and Elston Gray is my best guess at what is written, Meclare and Elston were female, Hasy male. The writing is very faint). Moses' brother Thomas is listed on a census transcription I've seen as being born in Tee, Scotland. He was actually baptised in Teigh, Rutland and I've found all but the 1851 and 1871 census returns for him. He settled in Eagle and was a musician (violin player/fiddler).

I also found Cornelius Gray/Mobbs born c.1860 Belton this morning on the 1891 census as a Smith.

1891 - Goole - gypsy tent
Cornelius Smith marr 33 basket maker, belton lincs
Sevesta Smith wife 23 dewsbury yorks
John Smith brother unm 27 scarboro
Evelea Smith sister unm 27 castoft(?) lincs
Laura Smith dau 1 born ? Bridge yorks

Evelea is, I believe, Avelin Mobbs from the 1881 census, and I'm wondering if the birthplace is actually Eastoft with Cornelius being born in Belton?

Anyway, will go through all the information you have sent to me now.

[JoanneM]

We appear to have cross posted - I've just seen your message regarding Sylvestia Smith. Thanks for all the extra info.

Sarah Ann Smith, daughter of Rabbi and Delorina Smith married George William Major, whose mother was Sylvestia Smith.

As far as I know the family is:

Dennis Smith (birth unknown) married Eleanor Charlotte who was bapt June 17th 1817 at Gamlingay. Their children are Fenwick, Sabina, Sidney (born c.1835 Nettleham), Sylvestia (born c.1838) and Tennant (born c.1840 Irby on Humber/Caistor).

Eleanor Charlotte is the daughter of John Charlotte (born c.1796 Gamlingay died April 3rd 1860 Kirton in Lindsey) and Sophia Smith (born c.1793 Leics, died Jan 6th 1887 Kirton in Lindsey). Their children are Eleanor, Sylvester (born c.1827 Folkingham), Elizabeth (born c.1828-1830 Billingham/Binbrook), Levanci (born c.1829 married Herilah/Riley Boswell and lived Scarborough), John (born c.1834 Lincoln) and James (born c.1835). The Edmund you have mentioned is a new name to me.

Sylvestia settled in Kirton in Lindsey as did her aunt Elizabeth Charlotte, both marrying into the Major family - Sylvestia married Tom Major and Elizabeth married John Major (it looks like Tom and John Majors father, also named John, was a bigamist and Tom is from one of his families and John the other, but that's another story altogether!) One of the witnesses on Sylvestia's marriage certificate was a Boswell (John Boswell I think, but will have to dig the certificate out to check).

I'm finding researching this line frustrating but so enjoyable. My family stayed in the same parish for generations so my husbands line is much more of a challenge, and I'm still trying to understand so much of it.

[JoanneM]

Uriah b.cir 1869 Mkt Rasen Lin poss the Uriah Mobbs d.1940 Lincoln Workhouse, buried Newport Cem, married Mary Ann Wain in 1900.


Quite possibly as Elderi/Eldria Gray is also buried at Newport Cem, she was buried August 8th 1862. I wonder if that means she also died in the workhouse?

[Ann65]

I hope you dont mind Im going to wander off and play with the info you have given me and see what I can turn up for you :)

[Ann65]

The 1841 Wymondham Census I have seen and noted Elderi Gray where you have transcribed Elston Gray.

On the 1861 Census for Green Bank, Thorne, Yorks
Class: RG9; Piece: 3525; Folio: 13; Page: 19

There is a Dennis Smith b.cir 1820 Leics Cork Maker
Caroline Smith b.cir 1838 Bardney Lin
Dennis Smith b.cir1841 Aybe Lin
George Smith b.cir 1846 Riston Lin
Israel Smith b.cir 1850 Saxilby Lin
Tennant Smith b.cir 1858 Histon Lin

Picked up from the IGI

Israel Smith s/o Dennis & Eleanor c.04.02.1849 Hemswell Lin

[JoanneM]

Tennant Smith, son of Dennis Smith married a Caroline Lucy, so the Caroline and Tennant Smith could be his wife and son, although I don't have him recorded with a son named Tennant.

I hadn't seen the IGI reference to Israel, and you'd have thought I'd have picked up on Elderi Gray on the census - tried every way to read it.

The suggestion that Sistance Charlot may be a son of John Charlotte and Sophia Smith makes sense. There was quite a big gap between Eleanor born 1817 and Sylvester born 1827, now you have found Edmund born 1822, and quite possibly now Sistance in 1820.

I've managed to find Sistance on the 1891 census:
1891 Church Fenton, Yorkshire (gipsies in camp)
Cistance Sharlott marr 66 besom maker and tinware dealer, Burford, Oxfordshire
Lementina Sharlott wife 65, Leics Leek
William Sharlott son marr 29 Lincoln Kirton in Lindsey
Annie Sharlott daughter in law 24 Glamorgan Swansea
Matilda Sharlott daughter unm 19 Yorks Barwick in Elmet

If William was born in Kirton in Lindsey in about 1862 this is when Sylvestia Smith was living there. It would also make Sistance born around 1825, but still within the gap I had between baptisms.

[Ann65]

There are certainly not that many Charlottes in "our" part of the country, and on that understanding, I should proceed as if Sistance were part of your group unless or until you find proof otherwise. In such cases I put a questionmark by the name until I can verify something, but it does make sense to place him on the Charlotte tree with the repetition of known romany stopping places and names.

[Ann65]

Mother of Elizabeth Charlotte found on 1861 Census, I assume you are already aware of this one....

Class: RG9; Piece: 2397; Folio: 30; Page: 33
House and Shop, Kirton In Lindsey 1861

John Major 35 Radford Notts Glass & China Dealer
Elizabeth Major 32 Billington Lin (Billingborough or Billinghay, both of which were Rom stopping places)
Joseph Major 8 Kirton
John Major 4 Kirton
Alfred Major 1 Kirton
Lafiah Charlotte 68 Mother/wid b.Kirton In Lindsey

[Ann65]

The suggestion that Sistance Charlot may be a son of John Charlotte and Sophia Smith makes sense. There was quite a big gap between Eleanor born 1817 and Sylvester born 1827, now you have found Edmund born 1822, and quite possibly now Sistance in 1820.

I've managed to find Sistance on the 1891 census:
1891 Church Fenton, Yorkshire (gipsies in camp)
Cistance Sharlott marr 66 besom maker and tinware dealer, Burford, Oxfordshire
Lementina Sharlott wife 65, Leics Leek
William Sharlott son marr 29 Lincoln Kirton in Lindsey
Annie Sharlott daughter in law 24 Glamorgan Swansea
Matilda Sharlott daughter unm 19 Yorks Barwick in Elmet



I found Matilda Sharlott married a Boswell........ take a look

Biggin Yks 1901 - Class: RG13; Piece: 4427; Folio: 104; Page: 4.
Thomas Boswell 35 Newark Notts Chimney Sweep
Matilda Boswell 30 Barwick In Elmet Yks
Martha Cunningham 7 Hull Yorks daughter (doesnt specify exactly whos daughter!)
Adelaide Boswell 3 Biggin Yks
Sistance Boswell 1 Biggin Yks
Reame Charlotte 82 Louth Lincs Mother In Law/wid

[Mutley]

I realise that yours are not in my area but if you ever had any Smiths that visited mine in Mitcham, Surrey then I would be pleased to make their acquaintance :)
Black Hannah, Flower Seller, Fortune Teller and Peg Maker married to John.

[Ann65]

Found them in 1881 at Humber St, Cleethorpes travelling with some of the Browns.

Lister Sharlott 59 (Sistance) Traveller hawker b.Louth
Matilda Sharlott 50 (Lemontina) b.Louth
Mary A Sharlott 18 b.Louth
Lillie Sharlott 15 b.Louth
Matilda Sharlott 10 b.Louth

William Brown 35 Grasby Lin
Sophia (Sinfai) Brown 29 Maxey Nthants (daughter of Eldred Pierce aka Winter aka Smith and Miseretta Heron)
John A (Arthur) Brown 7 b.Caistor
Agnes Brown 5 b.Torton Lin
Clare (Clara) Brown 3 b.Horncastle
Julia Brown 21 Boarder b.Alford

[Ann65]

Hiya Mutley. Im not too well up on the southerly Romanies but I know some folki who are :D

http://passingthrough.wetpaint.com/?t=anon

http://www.romanygenes.webeden.co.uk/

Have a look around (it might take a while!)

[Mutley]

Thanks Ann,
Romany genes, I follow avidly.

Passingthrough was new and I think I have added another indirect family member, so thanks again.

PS Saw your piccie, looks good;)

[JoanneM]

Can't thank you enough for all this information. I'm going to have to sit down and digest it all. I did have the 1861 for Sophia Charlotte which is how I found out about her daughter marrying John Major.

Couple of things I've found - a death on freebmd for 'Cystance' Charlotte, Selby, 1900 Dec qtr.

Also Cornelius Gray/Mobbs/Smith born c.1860 Belton seems to have got himself enumerated twice on the 1891 census.

There's the entry I'd already mentioned (missed Joshua off last time - sorry):
1891 - Goole - gypsy tent
Cornelius Smith marr 33 basket maker, Belton Lincs
Sevesta Smith, wife, marr 23 born Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Joshua Smith, son, 1, born Cave, Yorkshire
John Smith brother unm 27, born Scarboro
Evelea smith sister unm 27, born Castoft(?) lincs
Laura Smith dau 1 born ? Bridge yorks

And also:
1891 - Hook, Goole, Swinefleet Road, (tents & gipsies)
John Smith, head, marr, 29, peg maker, born Scarboro'
Avelina, wife, marr, 26, born Eastoft
Laura, daughter, 1, born Yorkshire River Bridge

Cornelius Smith, head, single, 33, basket maker, born Lincolnshire Belton
Silvester, concubine, single, born Yorkshire Dewsbury
Joshua, son, 1 born Yorkshire Cave

I knew I'd seen the entry before as I had the 1891 entry where Silvester (or Sylvesta) is a concubine. Sylvesta is the daughter of Sidney Smith and his wife Maria, Sidney being the son of Dennis Smith and Eleanor Charlotte. In 1901 Sylvesta is 'Vesta' Smith and is living alone with her children in Gainsborough.

[Ann65]

Thanks Ann,
Romany genes, I follow avidly.

Passingthrough was new and I think I have added another indirect family member, so thanks again.

PS Saw your piccie, looks good;)

Thanks

Passingthrough has been around before on another server, Jackie is one of the great researchers, like Sue, they both have masses of info.

[Ann65]

Can't thank you enough for all this information. I'm going to have to sit down and digest it all. .

Its been a pleasure, and its all helping me too, I am just a hopeless addict when it comes to the gypsies.

I must admit I have worn my brain out tonight, will have another look around tomorrow :)

Ann

[JoanneM]

On the 1861 Census for Green Bank, Thorne, Yorks
Class: RG9; Piece: 3525; Folio: 13; Page: 19

There is a Dennis Smith b.cir 1820 Leics Cork Maker
Caroline Smith b.cir 1838 Bardney Lin
Dennis Smith b.cir1841 Aybe Lin
George Smith b.cir 1846 Riston Lin
Israel Smith b.cir 1850 Saxilby Lin
Tennant Smith b.cir 1858 Histon Lin

Picked up from the IGI

Israel Smith s/o Dennis & Eleanor c.04.02.1849 Hemswell Lin

I've been looking further into this, and I do think that this is the Dennis Smith who was married to Eleanor Charlotte. I'm wondering if the younger Dennis is actually Tennant Smith (who married Caroline Lucy) as Tennant was born c.1840 as one of the possible birthplaces I have for him is Irby on Humber - Irby/Aybe, maybe?

There's a possible census entry for Israel Smith in Armley in 1891:
Israel Smith, head, 45, clothes eg hawker, born Lincs Kirton in Lindsey
Sibham(?), wife, 41, assistant hawker, born Yorks Cropton
Hartleys, son, 21, clothes peg hawker, born Yorks Pickering
Tennant, son, 18, clothes peg hawker, born Yorks Halifax
George, son, 15, assistant hawker, born Yorks Halifax
Ann A., dau, 11, scholar, born Durham Newcastle
Cinderella, dau, 8, scholar, born Yorks Hunslet
Benjamin, son, 4, born Yorks Holbeck
Mary, dau, 4 months, born Yorks Armley

[Ann65]

I've been looking further into this, and I do think that this is the Dennis Smith who was married to Eleanor Charlotte. I'm wondering if the younger Dennis is actually Tennant Smith (who married Caroline Lucy) as Tennant was born c.1840 as one of the possible birthplaces I have for him is Irby on Humber - Irby/Aybe, maybe?

I thought the exact same thing. The only thing I can think of is that the younger Tennant Smith died and Dennis took his name. Because Tennant is right there....

It doesnt seem to add up, unless we take into account the possibility that the enumerator had absolute no idea how old they were and guessed - which did happen, but due to the outdoor lifestyle usually worked in the opposite direction, making them appear older.

[Ann65]

There's a possible census entry for Israel Smith in Armley in 1891:
Israel Smith, head, 45, clothes eg hawker, born Lincs Kirton in Lindsey
Sibham(?), wife, 41, assistant hawker, born Yorks Cropton
Hartleys, son, 21, clothes peg hawker, born Yorks Pickering
Tennant, son, 18, clothes peg hawker, born Yorks Halifax
George, son, 15, assistant hawker, born Yorks Halifax
Ann A., dau, 11, scholar, born Durham Newcastle
Cinderella, dau, 8, scholar, born Yorks Hunslet
Benjamin, son, 4, born Yorks Holbeck
Mary, dau, 4 months, born Yorks Armley

Im very interested in the fact that a Hartley appears there. Im darned sure I saw a Hartley somehow related somewhere along the Grays line - but I cant remember where for the life of me.

[Ann65]

The William Gray who became "involved" with Bethania Smith b.1800 Seaton Rutland was born cir 1791 Ashwell Hrts s/o Charles and "Equally". This corresponds to Charles Gray and Aquilla/Aquilla Smith. Charles was born 1765 Ashwell Hrts s/o Codilla Gray. Where she comes into things I really dont know, I have seen various early couples such as Thomas and Elizabeth, Peter and Sarah, and George & Martha Gray. I am sure that Codilla fits into this scheme as all were around the Hrts/Cam area abt this time.

I have looked and looked for other possible Williams but this seems to be the only candidate.

As I said previously, this William Gray also married Tabitha Smith, Bethanias sister. By her hed had:

(one supposedly - was attributed to him) Hannah b.cir 1820 Ingleby Lin married Josiah Smith.
Sidney c.1824 Nth Wheatley Notts married a Violet, and then Edingail/Mary Ann Smith,
Eldereye c.1824 Essendine Rutland
Charlotte c.1826 Askham Notts
Messiah c.1830 Saxilby Lin
Kalias b.cir 1830 died cir 1830
Alexander c.1834 Harmston Lin
Mary c.1836 Welton By Lincoln
Josiah c.1840 Welton By Lincoln
Haradine b.cir 1847 Ponteract Yrks
Carli/Kelli/Kalias Gray b.cir 1852 Sth Carlton Lin married Eve/Eva b.cir 1851 Sth Ferriby.

[Ann65]

The William c.1822 Ancaster who was the son of William and Bethania, as opposed to Tabitha, married Lumi/Laommi/Salome Ellen Boyling/Boiling d/o George and Joyce (Tansey).

Now George Boyling and Joyce settled in Nettleham before they died, and are both buried there, he in 1873, and she in 1885. Salome Ellen was christened in 1823 at Scampton Lincs, and repeatedly appears on census on her own. This lends credence to the theory that William Gray died young.

William and Lumi/Laommi/Salome Ellen had:

Elias/Eli b.cir 1840-45 Nettleham married Sarah A. Smith
Drusilla b.cir 1845 Ingham Lin married Walter Smith s/o William Smith and Mausolina Heron but she supposedly ran away and lived with a Pat Campbell. This appears to be late in life.
Lucy b.cir 1850 Sheffield (no other info)
Esther b.cir 1855 Barnsley Yks
Joycey b.cir 1858 Bradford, married 1) Heenan Herring (Heron) 1874 Barnsley Dist Yrks, and 2) William King - know a living descendant of this family.
Mary A. b.cir 1864 Wath Yks, married Thomas Humberstone

[JoanneM]

Thank you once again, there's a lot of information to go through there.

Sidney c.1824 Nth Wheatley Notts married a Violet, and then Edingail/Mary Ann Smith

Don't know how common the name Violet was, but there is a Violet Smith, daughter of Thomas and Sylvia and brother to Moses. She was baptised 1819 in Melton Mowbray so about the right age.

[Ann65]

I know. I just cant prove it.

....

[JoanneM]

Just looking at the 1861 census entry for Moses Smith in Reepham where Joshua Gray (born c.1821-30 Ingham) is listed as his brother-in-law.

Am I right in thinking that the William and Elisha Smith aged 7 and 5 years are Joshua's sons William and Elijah "Lasher" as the ages match?

And is the Harriet Smith listed Joshua's wife? Her birthplace is enumerated at Blyton but looking at it, it could be Blyboro.

Also, are Harriet Brown and Harriet Smith one and the same person? They're both the same age and Willoughton is less than a mile away from Blyborough.

[Ann65]

1861 Reepham Lin (rough cos you obviously have it)

Moses Smith
Eldria Smith (nee Gray)
with their children:
Thomas
Sophia
Emma
John
Sarah
Rabbi
Walter

Thomas Smith Moses brother
Charlotte Smith Thomas' wife

Joshua Gray Eldrias brother
Harriet Brown - one would presume this is his wife considering where she is on the list
and their children:
William Smith
Elisha Smith

Elizabeth Mobbs should read Bethania Gray/Mobbs - mother in law
Harriet Smith hadnt actually noticed the two harriets before! - this is certainly the right person to be Joshuas wife, being born in Blyborough
Sophia Smith unknown
Letitia Mobbs Niece - havent tracked her down yet.

Im very confused now you have pointed it out. Im going to go have another hunt

[JoanneM]

Good morning to you. They didn't make it easy for us did they?

Im very interested in the fact that a Hartley appears there. Im darned sure I saw a Hartley somehow related somewhere along the Grays line - but I cant remember where for the life of me.

I've been trying to find the Hartley Smith born c.1870 in Pickering, son of Israel Smith on an earlier census. I think I might have found him enumerated as Arkless Smith in 1871, but if it is him Israel is now John Smith. What do you think?

1871 Durham, West Auckland

John Smith, head, 18, clothes peg maker, born Lincolnshire Courting Linvey (Kirton Lindsey?)
Hannah, wife, 20, born York Wakefield
Artleys, son, 1, born York Pickering

Artleys Smith, head, 56, lab, born Rutland Freeby?
Mary, wife, 48, born Lincoln Eppeth (Epworth?)
Ellen, dau, 15, born York Bradford
Tamar, dau, 13, born York Emsell
Elias, son, 8, born York Wakefield
Mary A., dau, 6, born York Wakefield
Eliza, dau, 3, born York Wakefield

Zechariah Boson (?), head, 22, clothes peg maker, born York Condon?
Susanah, wife, 24, born York Leeds
Charlotte, dau, 8, born York Walmgate
Zechariah, son, 4, born York Walmgate
George, son, 1, born York Walmgate
Dinah Lander (?), sister, 14, born York Walmgate

[JoanneM]

Artleys Smith, head, 56, lab, born Rutland Freeby?
Mary, wife, 48, born Lincoln Eppeth (Epworth?)
Ellen, dau, 15, born York Bradford
Tamar, dau, 13, born York Emsell
Elias, son, 8, born York Wakefield
Mary A., dau, 6, born York Wakefield
Eliza, dau, 3, born York Wakefield

Artleys Smith is Arkless Smith in the 1861 and is at Stanley cum Wrenthorpe (I note Salome Ellen Gray is also at Stanley cum Wrenthorpe in 1861). Travelling with Artleys/Arkless in 1861 is a Magney(?) Smith, 28, born Derbyshire, his wife Mary, 24, and son Albert E., 1, both born Lincolnshire. Albert E. Smith is listed as being deaf - this interests me as my husbands ancestor Sarah Ann Smith, daughter of Rabbi and Delarina was deaf, and on the 1891 census Tennant Smith (born c.1840 Irby on Humber) is also listed as deaf.

[Ann65]

This Arkless smith (ie b.cir 1830 Rutland) turns up in 1881 at the Green, Wuerdle and Wardle Lancs:

Hercules Smith 56 Truby Rutland Pedlar
Mary Smith 58 Lincoln Hawker
Elias Smith 17 Wakefield Yks Hawker
Marianne Smith 15 Wakefield Yks Hawker
Eliza Smith 13 Wakefield Yks Hawker

[JoanneM]

Hi Ann,

Could I pick your brains again and ask for help in deciphering this family please?

I have looked and looked over the years for any sign of Delerina/Dilarany Smith, who married Rabbi Smith prior to the 1872 baptism of her daughter. I've found someone on the 1871 census who matches very closely but the family has a Smith as a mother and sons with surnames Smith, Gray and Boswell and I'm completely lost. (Should note I have Delarina's marriage cert and she doesn't name a father on it).

1871 - Laneham Notts - in a tent
Alice Smith head widow 40 gipsy wandering life nk (obviously a deal older than this if she has a son aged 40)
Joseph Gray son unm 20 Notts Treswell
Jeremiah Boswell son marr 40 gipsy life Notts Babworth
Hannah Smith dau 15 Gainsboro
Francis Smith son marr 38 Lincs Kegsby(?)
Emily Smith dau 3 Winterton
Deliremy Smith dau 5 Yorks Kirton/Kirby(?)
Elisha Smith 7 Gainsboro
Dilerany dau 14 yorks Oldcoates

It's the Dilerany aged 14 that interests me. She's enumerated at Delisamy with a birthplace of Oldcoster, but looking at it I think it's Dilerany from Oldcoates. On later census returns the Delerina I'm looking for gave her birthplace as Worksop and there is an Oldcotes very close to Worksop. She's slightly too young but everything else fits.

I've tried to find this family on the 1861 but only managed to find Jeremiah Boswell and daughter Hannah, and I've seen a baptism for Jeremiah in 1832 at Babworth to Alice Boswell.

Have you any idea about this family?

Jo.

[Ann65]

The boswells are a huuuuuuuuuggggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeee family - I think I MIGHT just be able to help a wee bit although I cant answer all your questions.

Jeremiah Boswell b.cir 1832 Babworth Notts was the son of Elijah Boswell by one of his wives Alice Smith (he also married her sister Delizanna). Alice and Delizanna were reputedly the daughters of a William Smith and a Jemima Gray - I have not yet been able to work out who exactly they were. There was also another sister, Charlotte Smith.

Now what is exciting here, is that Elijah Boswell was suposed to have travelled the Midlands with one William Gray. This was the same William Gray who married Tabitha and had a liason with her sister Bethania.

Ok so this is what I have on Elijah Boswell:

b.cir 1798 he was the son of Elijah Boswell and Elizabeth Smith.

He married Harriet Woodward 14.02.1820 Walesby Notts they had quite a few children.

Isaiah or Elisha c.1823 Welbourn Lin
Herilah c.1827 Bole Notts d.1896 married Levanci/Lurancy Charlotte in 1855
William c.1827 Gamston Nott
Erydina (Smith or Boswell) c.1830 Upper Langwith Dby
Adam c.1830 Walesby m. Elizabeth Ellis b.1829 Warrington Lancs
Sidney c.1831 Walesby
Annice c.1832 East Markham Nott
Joseph c.1837 Clarborough Nott
Lucy c.1846 Scotter Lincs.

Elijah also married Delizanna Smith b.cir 1802 m.1823 Newton In The Wolds, Notts

(no known issue)

He also married Alice Smith (no marriage dates found thus far) and had:

Okey c.1830 Sutton Cum Lound, Notts
Jeremiah c.1832 Babworth Notts
Magnus c.1834 Longford Dby
Rudolphus c.1836 Babworth Nott
Walter c.1851 Kneesall Nott

[Ann65]

1871 - Laneham Notts - in a tent
Alice Smith head widow 40 gipsy wandering life nk (obviously a deal older than this if she has a son aged 40)
Joseph Gray son unm 20 Notts Treswell
Jeremiah Boswell son marr 40 gipsy life Notts Babworth
Hannah Smith dau 15 Gainsboro
Francis Smith son marr 38 Lincs Kegsby(?)
Emily Smith dau 3 Winterton
Deliremy Smith dau 5 Yorks Kirton/Kirby(?)
Elisha Smith 7 Gainsboro <------------ I am sure this is the same Elisha Smith as is at Reepham 1861 (gave place of birth at Minting but theres no other candidates)
Dilerany dau 14 yorks Oldcoates

Furthermore, this Elisha Smith appears to be at Whitton Lin 1891
Elisha Smith 26 b.Gainsboro
Susannah Smith 1861 Newark
William Smith 1880 Newark
Thomas Smith 1882 Newark
Cornelius Smith 1886 Gainsboro
Elizabeth Smith 1886 Lincs
Frances Smith 1890 Lincs

[JoanneM]

Furthermore, this Elisha Smith appears to be at Whitton Lin 1891
Elisha Smith 26 b.Gainsboro
Susannah Smith 1861 Newark
William Smith 1880 Newark
Thomas Smith 1882 Newark
Cornelius Smith 1886 Gainsboro
Elizabeth Smith 1886 Lincs
Frances Smith 1890 Lincs

And is he Elisha Mobbs in 1881, son of Francis Mobbs? They're in Dawsons Court in Lincoln with Rabbi and Delerina.

[Ann65]

Without taking another look at the 1881 census - its a possibility isnt it? Elisha Mobbs had a sister Delarina in 1869 b.Yorkshire...... Im going to go and have another look lol

[Ann65]

oops

[Ann65]

I just wrote a reply and am now deleting it as I was looking at the wrong Elisha Mobbs!!!


Francis Mobbs and his family (incl Elisha) were at 1 The Hut, Dawsons Ct in 1881, listed as Mobbs, not Smith

I guess it could be him but why would he later change his name to smith? silly q I know, considering Ive no idea why they changed their name to Mobbs.

[JoanneM]

Could the Alice Smith who's a boarder with Francis Mobbs in 1881 be the Alice Smith from 1871, mother of Jeremiah Boswell?

[Ann65]

Its certainly possible. If her age was wrong (nothing new there with the Romanies).

[Ann65]

Ive been going through some notes. I picked these up a while ago from Family History Onlines National Burial Index.

3 in same grave:
Name DELINA SMITH – Date of Death 1897-NOV Age or Date of Birth 44 Place WILMSLOW Burial Ground ST BARTHOLOMEW CofE Grave No B.p 37 Ordnance Survey RefSJ=848 814 Fiche 44 b.1853
SUSANNAH SMITH – Date of Death 1897-MAY Age or Date of Birth 87 Place b.1810 WILMSLOW Burial Ground ST BARTHOLOMEW CofE Grave No B.p 37 Ordnance Survey RefSJ=848 814 Fiche 44
MOSES SMITH – Date of Death 1888-AUG Age or Date of Birth 81 Place WILMSLOW Burial Ground ST BARTHOLOMEW CofE Grave No B.p 37 Ordnance Survey RefSJ=848 814 Fiche 44 b.1807

Name Delorainie SMITH Date 15 Mar 1870 Aged 11 Place Ecclesfield Description St Mary Denomination Anglican County code WRY b.1859

Name Delphi SMITH Date 5 Jan 1864 Aged inf Place Sleaford Description St Denys Denomination Anglican County code LIN b.1863

Thats all the info there was from that source, but I guess its a few more leads to check up on?

[Ann65]

I forgot these.....

Tabitha GRAY Date 26 Dec 1867 Aged 65 Place Newton on Trent Description St Peter Denomination Anglican County code LIN
1802

Eldera SMITH Date 8 Aug 1865 Aged 42 Place Lincoln Description St Nicholas Denomination Anglican County code LIN 1823

Name Eldri SMITH Date 8 Aug 1865 Aged 42 Place Lincoln Description Newport Cemetery Denomination Cemetery County code LIN

[JoanneM]

1871 - Laneham Notts - in a tent
Alice Smith head widow 40 gipsy wandering life nk (obviously a deal older than this if she has a son aged 40)
Joseph Gray son unm 20 Notts Treswell
Jeremiah Boswell son marr 40 gipsy life Notts Babworth
Hannah Smith dau 15 Gainsboro
Francis Smith son marr 38 Lincs Kegsby(?)
Emily Smith dau 3 Winterton
Deliremy Smith dau 5 Yorks Kirton/Kirby(?)
Elisha Smith 7 Gainsboro
Dilerany dau 14 yorks Oldcoates

It's the Dilerany aged 14 that interests me. She's enumerated at Delisamy with a birthplace of Oldcoster, but looking at it I think it's Dilerany from Oldcoates. On later census returns the Delerina I'm looking for gave her birthplace as Worksop and there is an Oldcotes very close to Worksop. She's slightly too young but everything else fits.

I'm now certain that the Dilerany aged 14 above is the Delerina I've been looking for, and the help you've given to me has been invaluable. I can place most of the people in the 1871 census entry as being with her in Dawsons Court, Lincoln in 1881.

Although the relationships are not right in 1871 with everyone being listed as a son or daughter of Alice when they quite clearly all are not, I'm wondering if she is a natural daughter of Alice?

With the information you've given I see the relationships as:

Alice Smith head widow 40 gipsy wandering life nk

Joseph Gray son unm 20 Notts Treswell
(possibly the son of William and Mary Gray who are travelling with Tabitha Smith in 1861)

Jeremiah Boswell son marr 40 gipsy life Notts Babworth
(son of Elijah Boswell and Alice Smith)
Hannah Smith dau 15 Gainsboro
(daughter of Jeremiah and Lunetta(?) Boswell)

Francis Smith son marr 38 Lincs Kegsby(?)
(Francis Gray/Mobbs/Smith son of James Gray and Bethania Smith)
Emily Smith dau 3 Winterton
Deliremy Smith dau 5 Yorks Kirton/Kirby(?)
Elisha Smith 7 Gainsboro
(All children of Francis Gray/Mobbs/Smith)

Dilerany dau 14 yorks Oldcoates

This leaves 'Dilerany'. Joseph is too young to be her father, I've got Jeremiah on the 1861 and she's not listed with him there, and Francis already has a daughter of that name. I also keep thinking that the name Delirana is quite similar to Delizanna.

[JoanneM]

One other thing that does interest me, and I'm wondering if it helps to link the families up, is the instances of deafness.

From the info on the Boswells which you listed you gave Magnus Boswell, born c.1834 Longford Dby as a son of Elijah Boswell and Alice Smith. The age/birthplace is right for him to be Magney Smith in 1861 who has a one year old son Albert E. who is deaf.

If Delirana is a daughter of Alice Smith, then she also went on to have a child who was deaf.

Have you come across any other cases of deafness in this family line?

[Ann65]

It looks to me like you have most likely nailed your Delorania - its such a hard name to track down as its so hard for enumerators to spell and often goes with shortened forms.

Ive seen so many oddities. One case is a Lorania Boss b.cir 1820 who went on to appear on census and in records of her transported brother as Deloraney Tylorania and Deborania, amongst others!

As for the deafness - Im not aware of it Im afraid, the only thing I was aware of was a report of night-blindness amongst some of the Heron/Smith family.

[babygirl101]

Help, I'm totally confused, I've found a Tabitha on the 1851 Census in Pontefract. She was married to William as I expected, but I can't work out who Josiah is. According to my information they had a son Josiah, but not until 1840 which would hae made him 11 in 1851, not 36 and this records Josiah as son-in-law!!

Can anyone shed any light on this:-

Tabitha Grey
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: N

Civil Parish: Pontefract
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Pontefract
Sub registration district: Pontefract
ED, institution, or vessel: 4 and 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 68
Household Members: Name Age
Cale Grey 4 (son)
Mary Grey 15 (daughter)
Tabitha Grey 50
William Grey 57
Hannah Smith 31 (daughter)
Josiah Smith 36 (son in law)
Mezzia Smith 3 (grand daughter)
Otho Smith 6 Mo (grandson)
Sophia Smith 10 (grand daughter)
Winsse Smith 12 (grandson)

Thanks :) |banghead|

[babygirl101]

Just to add to the confusion you mention a Thomas Smith c 1840 son of Elderi Gray & Moses Smith who married Siberamily.

I have a Thomas Smith who was shown as the son of Robert & Evening Smith. IGI records his details as being christened 15th June 1834, Harby Leic and son of Robert & Evelin. He is shown on the 1841 census as travelling with them, aged 7.

I have just received the death certificates for Robert & Evening.

Robert died 1882, aged 91 years, in attendance at his death was a Sybilla Smith, daughter in law.

Evening died 7th January 1872 aged 79 years, in attendance son Thomas Smith.

Are these the same people, I wonder???? Do you have anything to validate that the Thomas you mention was definitely Elderi & Moses' son. If so then there must have been 2 Thomas's around the same age, I'd love to know as I'm getting more and more confused.|banghead|

Many thanks

BG



[QUOTE=Ann65;164546]Mobbs and Grays


Elderi Gray and Moses Smith had:

Thomas b.cir 1840 Harby Leic married Siberamily "Sibby" Smith b.cir 1840 Northampton
Sophia b.cir 1841 Harby Leic
Emma b.cir 1845 Normanby Lin
John b.cir 1850 Bishops Norton Lin
Rabbi Smith b.cir 1857 Nettleham Lin married Deloraine or Delorina b.cir 1851 Worksop
Sarah b.cir 1851 Willowson

[Ann65]

You may just have struck solid Gold.

My workings out were based on IGI records and Census returns - not BMD data.

Therefore I cannot be 100 per cent positive - but I work to the best of my ability with the info available and am only too happy to a) help others and research more using new hints and b) accept Im wrong sometimes. This clearly needs more work - and Im only too happy to retrace steps and try and see if I can work it out.

I am sorry havent been around lately - had a huge hard disk failure and again (this the second time) lost some info - thankfully no where near as much as the first time it happened.

Im going to go off and see what I can find out, but I shall return :)

[Ann65]

You're right. There were two Thomas Smiths, one son of Robert and Evening b.1834 Harby Leic, the other son of Moses and Elderi Smith b.cir 1840 Harby Leic.

Thomas son of Robert and Evening Smith married Siberamily b.cir 1840 Northants.

Thomas son of Moses and Elderi married Sophia b.cir 1850 Caistor Lin, and had a son John b.cir 1878 Lincoln.

Sorry I got it wrong, but at least now we have nailed another piece of the puzzle!! its all good. :)

[babygirl101]

You're right. There were two Thomas Smiths, one son of Robert and Evening b.1834 Harby Leic, the other son of Moses and Elderi Smith b.cir 1840 Harby Leic.

Thomas son of Robert and Evening Smith married Siberamily b.cir 1840 Northants.

Thomas son of Moses and Elderi married Sophia b.cir 1850 Caistor Lin, and had a son John b.cir 1878 Lincoln.

Sorry I got it wrong, but at least now we have nailed another piece of the puzzle!! its all good. :)


We're getting there slowly but surely - my padded cell is looking even more tempting by the minute hehe!!!

Ifs and buts again ...

If I try to follow that through then, my Robert Smith was the sister of Tabitha Smith who married William Grey. It appears that it was their daughter Elderi who married Moses that would make the 2 Thomas's 2nd cousins (I think) and given that they were both born in the same place makes it even more likely...

I've tracked them all down on the 1841 census and they were travelling together. Robert Smith, Evening and their children, along with Moses Smith & Elden (Elderi Gray), plus several from the Mobbs family.

The only slight hiccup is that Elden was recorded as only being 15, so I can't confirm her as Thomas's mother as yet!! That apart, I think I've got the right people. According to the 1841 census they were in Wymondham, Leicestershire at that time which would fit with the Harby connection, I think. I haven't managed to find any of them on the 1851 census as yet - so onwards and upwards and thank you for all your help. If I find anything more I'll report back.

I'm off to search from Roberts daughter who I've just discovered - Sesevoy (b. 1822).

BG

[Ann65]

Back again with a bit more for you.

Going back to Moses and Elderi, their daughter Emily Smith b.cir 1845 Normanby Lin

married Philistia Smith b.cir 1843 Keadby? Lin.

Now he turns up on the 1861 Census with Surrender Smith b.cir 1834 Mattersey Nott and is listed as a brother. I have seen it said on the Routes site (I think you are there yes?) that this Surrender Smith was born a Boswell, and also used the alias Render Sherriff (which is strangely familiar to me!).

With Surrender and Philistia in 1861 were
Henry Smith brother b.cir 1839 Stockwith and
Lucy Smith sister b.cir 1843 Scottor Lin.

Now if these are Boswells, I have found this Lucy.

Lucy Boswell c.13.05.1846 Scotter Lin was the daughter of Elijah Boswell and his wife Harriet Woodward. This is the same Elijah Boswell who was married to both Delizanna Smith and her sister Alice Smith. It is also the same Elijah Boswell who travelled this area with William Gray (Senior), the one who was married to Tabitha Smith.

[Ann65]

I've tracked them all down on the 1841 census and they were travelling together. Robert Smith, Evening and their children, along with Moses Smith & Elden (Elderi Gray), plus several from the Mobbs family.

The only slight hiccup is that Elden was recorded as only being 15, so I can't confirm her as Thomas's mother as yet!! That apart, I think I've got the right people. According to the 1841 census they were in Wymondham, Leicestershire at that time which would fit with the Harby connection, I think.

BG

Elderis age would have been rounded down as its the 1841 Census. According to other records I have found for her she was born cir 1821 Winsley Nthants, which would make her about 19 when she had Thomas.

[JoanneM]

I've been following this with interest, and I'm the one that posted on the Routes site about Surrender. In 1861 his wife is Adelaide, aged 30, born Notts. From other census returns I've found her on I'm pretty sure that she is the daughter of Elijah Boswell and Charlotte Smith (Erydina bapt 5th Dec 1830 Upper Langwith). So I think it is Adelaide who is sister to Henry and Lucy.

Surrender is on the 1841 as a child as follows (bracketed text is my notes):

1841 – Kingsley, Staffordshire
Moses Boswell 35 grinder N (bapt 9/5/1804 Bromsgrove Worcs s/o Solivens and Comfort Boswell)
Estus(Esther?) Boswell 35 N
John Boswell 15 Y
Charlotte Boswell 15 N
Henry Boswell 10 N (bapt 20/8/1825 Sutton on the Hill, Derby)
Gren(?) Boswell 10 N
SURRENDER BOSWELL 8 Y
Maname Boswell (female) 6 N
Maneyar Boswell (female) 4 N
Adam Boswell 2 N
Eliza Boswell 1 month N (bapt 24/5/1841 Malpas Cheshire)
Samuel Boswell 30 grinder N
Hannah Boswell 35 N
Cinderella Boswell 12 N
Caroline Boswell 9 N (Corolenia bapt 20/3/1831 Horkstow Lincs)
Thomas Boswell 6 N
Sartubla (female) Boswell 5 N
John Delina Boswell 4 N
Simon Millward (Boswell?) 3 N
Comfort Boswell 55 net maker N (poss Comfort Wood, married ‘Vaino (Waimore) Boss (Solivaino Boswell) 1812 Knowle Warwickshire)
William Boswell 20 grinder N
George Boswell 15 Y
Mary Boswell 15 N
Salen(?) Boswell 15 N
Rodaman Boswell 14 N
John Boswell 12 N
Hairywall Boswell 10 N
Pheonix Boswell 9 N
Thamore Boswell 5 Y

[babygirl101]

Back again with a bit more for you.

Going back to Moses and Elderi, their daughter Emily Smith b.cir 1845 Normanby Lin

married Philistia Smith b.cir 1843 Keadby? Lin.

Now he turns up on the 1861 Census with Surrender Smith b.cir 1834 Mattersey Nott and is listed as a brother. I have seen it said on the Routes site (I think you are there yes?) that this Surrender Smith was born a Boswell, and also used the alias Render Sherriff (which is strangely familiar to me!).

With Surrender and Philistia in 1861 were
Henry Smith brother b.cir 1839 Stockwith and
Lucy Smith sister b.cir 1843 Scottor Lin.

Now if these are Boswells, I have found this Lucy.

Lucy Boswell c.13.05.1846 Scotter Lin was the daughter of Elijah Boswell and his wife Harriet Woodward. This is the same Elijah Boswell who was married to both Delizanna Smith and her sister Alice Smith. It is also the same Elijah Boswell who travelled this area with William Gray (Senior), the one who was married to Tabitha Smith.


Just a quickie whilst I try to take all of this in - I've found an EMMA not EMILY on 1861 census, right dob and place of birth and a Charlotte.

This is who's on the list:-
Harriet Brown 24
Joshua Gray 31
Elizabeth Mobbs 63
Lettitia Mobbs 16
Charlott Smith 37
Eldred Smith 40
Elisha Smith 5
Emma Smith 15
Harriet Smith 24
John Smith 11
Moses Smith 44
Robbi Smith 4
Sarah Smith 10
Sophia Smith 20
Sophia Smith 16
Thomas Smith 21
Thomas Smith 50
Walter Smith 3 Mo
William Smith 7

I'll keep working at it
BG

[babygirl101]

Elderis age would have been rounded down as its the 1841 Census. According to other records I have found for her she was born cir 1821 Winsley Nthants, which would make her about 19 when she had Thomas.

I'm sure you're right about that. I'm sure it's the right person, but as I keep finding they weren't that good with ages were they hehe!!! After all I'm still 21 (not!!)

BG

[babygirl101]

Back again with a bit more for you.

Going back to Moses and Elderi, their daughter Emily Smith b.cir 1845 Normanby Lin

married Philistia Smith b.cir 1843 Keadby? Lin.

Now he turns up on the 1861 Census with Surrender Smith b.cir 1834 Mattersey Nott and is listed as a brother. I have seen it said on the Routes site (I think you are there yes?) that this Surrender Smith was born a Boswell, and also used the alias Render Sherriff (which is strangely familiar to me!).

With Surrender and Philistia in 1861 were
Henry Smith brother b.cir 1839 Stockwith and
Lucy Smith sister b.cir 1843 Scottor Lin.

Now if these are Boswells, I have found this Lucy.

Lucy Boswell c.13.05.1846 Scotter Lin was the daughter of Elijah Boswell and his wife Harriet Woodward. This is the same Elijah Boswell who was married to both Delizanna Smith and her sister Alice Smith. It is also the same Elijah Boswell who travelled this area with William Gray (Senior), the one who was married to Tabitha Smith.


You mention a Render Sheriff - on the 1861 Census there's a Sheriff Render, aged 47 living along with the Smith, Mobbs and Boswells at Dawsons Court Lincolnshire. I've also found my Siberamily & Thomas who were present at the deaths of Robert & Evening Smith according to their death certs. Moses (father of the other Thomas c1841) is there too as a widow.

I presume you've already come across these pages? I'm going to print them out and begin to try to untangle them eeeeekk unless someone else has already done this ?? !!

BG

[Ann65]

Excellent Joanne :)

Baby - Emma in 1861 is Emily who married Philista Smith, Im sure she is. Both b.cir 1845 Normanby.

[Ann65]

thanks, yeah I had all the Dawsons court folks. I knew that name was familiar!

[JoanneM]

Excellent Joanne :)

Baby - Emma in 1861 is Emily who married Philista Smith, Im sure she is. Both b.cir 1845 Normanby.

And I think she's back to Emma again in 1891, and that Clisby Smith is Philistia. The witnesses on their marriage cert were Rabbi Smith and Mary Ann Gray.

1891 – Bridge Street Lodging House, Gainsboro
James Mobbs lodger mar 20 hawker Gainsboro (s/o Moses Gray and Silvia Smith?)
Sophia Mobbs lodger mar 18 hawker Gainsboro (d/o Sydney and Edingal Gray?)
David Gray lodger unm 21 Market Rasen (grandson of William Gray and Tabitha Smith, s/o Sydney and Edingal Gray)
Mary A. Gray lodger mar 55 Boston (Edingal Gray, w/o Sydney Gray)
Clisby Smith lodger mar 30 hawker Keadby (Philistia Smith?)
Emma Smith lodger mar 30 hawker Keadby (w/o Philistia, d/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray?)
Harriet Smith lodger unm 50 hawker Epworth

[Ann65]

Aha! the plot thickens!!

:)

[JoanneM]

I presume you've already come across these pages? I'm going to print them out and begin to try to untangle them eeeeekk unless someone else has already done this ?? !!

BG

I've tried, but I'm still a beginner on these families. My take on it is (and I reckon there's a few Boswells going by the name Smith in there):

1881 – Dawsons Court, Lincoln
Philistia Smith, head, mar, 46, gen lab, Keadby Lincs
Emily wife mar 40 Toft Lincs (d/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray)
Sarah A. dau 10 scholar Gainsborough (d/o Rabbi and Delerina Smith)
Bertha no relationship, 40, Willerton Notts (poss Bathia Boswell in 1861, m/o Adam Boswell/Smith?)
Lucy dau 5 Haxey Lincs
Aradine dau 8 Tickhill Yorks
Alice no relationship 40 Nottingham (poss d/o Elijah Boswell?)
Adam Smith head mar 31 gen lab Kingswood Lighton Yorks (poss s/o William and Bathia Boswell on 1861?)
Hannah wife mar 20, Gainsborough (d/o Jeremiah and Lunetta Boswell)
Jane dau 11 months Lincoln
Geattie son 4 Lincoln
Jeremiah Smith, f-in-law, widower, 40, gen lab, Bubworth Notts (s/o Elijah Boswell and Alice Smith)
Geattie, brother, unm, 27, Gunthorp Lincs (s/o William and Bathia Boswell)
Rylee brother unm, 27 Weller Common Notts (poss Elijah Boswell on 1861, s/o William and Bathia Boswell?)
Sherriff Render boarder mar 47 Everton Notts (Surrender Boswell/Smith)
Adeline Sheriff boarder mar 42 Langworth Derby (Adelaide, w/o Surrender Boswell/Smith, d/o Elijah Boswell)
William Smith boarder mar? 15, Seaton York (s/o William Boswell)
John Charlotte boarder mar 42/22? Scarboro
Jane Smith boarder mar 23 London City
William Smith boarder mar 57 Gamston Notts (s/o Elijah Boswell?)
Keli Gray head mar 34 rag gatherer, South Carlton Lincs (s/o William and Tabitha Grey)
Eva wife mar 30 South Ferriby
Joseph son 10 Bardney s/o Cali and Eva Grey
Mary dau 8 Scarboro d/o Cali and Eva Grey
Isiah/Josiah son 4 Lincoln s/o Cali and Eva Grey
Keli son 9 months Lincoln s/o Cali and Eva Grey
Henry Smith boarder mar 30 gen lab, Stockwith (s/o Elijah Boswell)
Mary Ann boarder mar 31 Northampton
Thomas Smith head mar 41 gen lab Spilsby Lincs
Sophia wife mar 27 Caistor (d/o Moses Smith and Eldria Grey)
Joshua son 15 Barkwith
John son 2 Lincoln
Rabbi Smith head mar 24 gen lab Nettleham (s/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray)
Delarina wife 26 Worksop Notts
Moses son 5 Lincoln
Walter son 11 months Lincoln
Moses f-in-law widower 56 rag gatherer Harby Leics (s/o Thomas and Silvia Smith)
Tom Smith head mar 44 rag gatherer Harby Leics (s/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray)
Siberamily wife mar 40 Northampton
Isiah/Josiah son unm 22 North Scarle Lincs
Herbert son 18 Swinderby
Ambrus son 13 Brandon Leics
Isabella dau 7 Lincoln
Mary Ann dau 12 Northamton
John Boswell head mar 22 gen lab Newark
Maria wife mar 20 Nettleham
John son 3 months Lincoln
Francis Mobbs head widow 46 Boston (s/o James Gray and Bethania Smith)
Delerina Mobbs dau 12 York
Emily dau 10 Winteringham
Elisha son 14 Gainsboro
Cornelius son 21 Belton s/o Francis Gray aka Mobbs
Bethany dau 13 Sheffield
Avelin 17 Eastoft
Eliza Smith, boarder, 30, Mansfield Notts (poss d/o Elijah Boswell?)
Alice Smith, boarder, 60, Branston (poss Alice, m/o Jeremiah Boswell?)

I'd be interested to know how far you agree.

[Ann65]

im fairly sure that this is the same:

James Mobbs died 1963 buried in Scroby Cemetery Scunthorpe
Sophia Mobbs died the same year, buried the same place.

[babygirl101]

Excellent Joanne :)

Baby - Emma in 1861 is Emily who married Philista Smith, Im sure she is. Both b.cir 1845 Normanby.

Why can't they leave their names the same hehe!!! I'm sure you're right, but it's just a tad confusing for us isn't it |laugh1|

I'm done enough for this evening so I'm off to my padded cell to recover.

Thanks again for all your help

Baby |wave|

[JoanneM]

im fairly sure that this is the same:

James Mobbs died 1963 buried in Scroby Cemetery Scunthorpe
Sophia Mobbs died the same year, buried the same place.

They would appear to be, wouldn't they? Do you know, myself and my OH are originally from Scunthorpe. A few of the Mobbs seem to have ended up there.

[Ann65]

Could add a couple of ideas:


1881 – Dawsons Court, Lincoln
Philistia Smith, head, mar, 46, gen lab, Keadby Lincs
Emily wife mar 40 Toft Lincs (d/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray)
Sarah A. dau 10 scholar Gainsborough (d/o Rabbi and Delerina Smith)
Bertha no relationship, 40, Willerton Notts (poss Bathia Boswell in 1861, m/o Adam Boswell/Smith?)
Lucy dau 5 Haxey Lincs
Aradine dau 8 Tickhill Yorks
Alice no relationship 40 Nottingham (poss d/o Elijah Boswell?)
Adam Smith head mar 31 gen lab Kingswood Lighton Yorks (poss s/o William and Bathia Boswell on 1861?)
Hannah wife mar 20, Gainsborough (d/o Jeremiah and Lunetta Boswell)
Jane dau 11 months Lincoln
Geattie son 4 Lincoln
Jeremiah Smith, f-in-law, widower, 40, gen lab, Bubworth Notts (s/o Elijah Boswell and Alice Smith)
Geattie, brother, unm, 27, Gunthorp Lincs (s/o William and Bathia Boswell)
Rylee brother unm, 27 Weller Common Notts (poss Elijah Boswell on 1861, s/o William and Bathia Boswell?)
Sherriff Render boarder mar 47 Everton Notts (Surrender Boswell/Smith)
Adeline Sheriff boarder mar 42 Langworth Derby (Adelaide, w/o Surrender Boswell/Smith, d/o Elijah Boswell)
William Smith boarder mar? 15, Seaton York (s/o William Boswell)
John Charlotte boarder mar 42/22? Scarboro
Jane Smith boarder mar 23 London City
William Smith boarder mar 57 Gamston Notts (s/o Elijah Boswell?)
Keli Gray head mar 34 rag gatherer, South Carlton Lincs (s/o William and Tabitha Grey)
Eva wife mar 30 South Ferriby
Joseph son 10 Bardney s/o Cali and Eva Grey
Mary dau 8 Scarboro d/o Cali and Eva Grey
Isiah/Josiah son 4 Lincoln s/o Cali and Eva Grey
Keli son 9 months Lincoln s/o Cali and Eva Grey
Henry Smith boarder mar 30 gen lab, Stockwith (s/o Elijah Boswell)
Mary Ann boarder mar 31 Northampton
Thomas Smith head mar 41 gen lab Spilsby Lincs (S/O ROBT & EVENING)
Sophia wife mar 27 Caistor (d/o Moses Smith and Eldria Grey)
Joshua son 15 Barkwith
John son 2 Lincoln
Rabbi Smith head mar 24 gen lab Nettleham (s/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray)
Delarina wife 26 Worksop Notts
Moses son 5 Lincoln
Walter son 11 months Lincoln
Moses f-in-law widower 56 rag gatherer Harby Leics (s/o Thomas and Silvia Smith)
Tom Smith head mar 44 rag gatherer Harby Leics (s/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray)
Siberamily wife mar 40 Northampton (POSS SIBBERANAH B.CIR 1838 ON 1841CR D/O RHODA SMITH, AT STOCKTON WKS)
Isiah/Josiah son unm 22 North Scarle Lincs
Herbert son 18 Swinderby
Ambrus son 13 Brandon Leics
Isabella dau 7 Lincoln
Mary Ann dau 12 Northamton
John Boswell head mar 22 gen lab Newark
Maria wife mar 20 Nettleham
John son 3 months Lincoln
Francis Mobbs head widow 46 Boston (s/o James Gray and Bethania Smith)
Delerina Mobbs dau 12 York
Emily dau 10 Winteringham
Elisha son 14 Gainsboro
Cornelius son 21 Belton s/o Francis Gray aka Mobbs
Bethany dau 13 Sheffield
Avelin 17 Eastoft
Eliza Smith, boarder, 30, Mansfield Notts (poss d/o Elijah Boswell?)
Alice Smith, boarder, 60, Branston (poss Alice, m/o Jeremiah Boswell?)

I'd be interested to know how far you agree.

[Ann65]

bye bye baby :)

Joanne - I believe there are some Mobbs still in the Brigg area too.

[JoanneM]

My oldest friend from the days when I lived in Scunthorpe had some Mobbs as next door neighbours, and I remember one who used to be a hawker outside the market there. I'm sure they're the same family.

[Ann65]

Most likely. I know one of the Grays in Brigg, hes descended from William Gray and Tabitha Smith. He says he knows some Mobbs and quite a few others related to the Grays and Smiths families. Sometimes I rue the day my folkies settled down and moved South!

[JoanneM]

Well, I think I'm going to call it a night now. It's been nice to speak to you again.

[babygirl101]

I've tried, but I'm still a beginner on these families. My take on it is (and I reckon there's a few Boswells going by the name Smith in there):

1881 – Dawsons Court, Lincoln
Tom Smith head mar 44 rag gatherer Harby Leics (s/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray)
Siberamily wife mar 40 Northampton

I'd be interested to know how far you agree.


I gave up last night - too shell shocked hehe. The only two I have any reliable information on are the 2 above. Tom (Thomas) was the son of Robert & Evening Smith, not Moses & Eldria.

SMITH, Thomas Robert & Evelin baptised 15 June 1834 Harby DE1772/4


On the 1861 there was a Thomas named as son of Moses, however, he was the one born in 1840. Robert's Thomas, was a few years older and he was the one who married Syberamily.

The 1881 census shows Thomas as Tom with his wife Siberamily living at 4 Dawson Court with their 5 children:

Ambrus Smith 13
Herbert Smith 18
Isabella Smith 7
Josiah Smith 22
Mary Ann Smith 12
Siberamily Smith 40
Tom Smith 44

1891 census:-

Thomas Smith
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sibey
Gender: Male
Where born: Leicestershire

Harriett Smith 17
Sibey Smith 52
Thomas Smith 59
Thomas Smith 14


Thomas was named as witness to his mothers death - Eve. His wife Siberamily was recorded as daughter-in-law and witness to Roberts death, although her name was given as Sybilla. This was in Caunton near Newark, Nottinghamshire. I think I may have found Siberamilys death recorded on Free BMD:-

Sept 1/4 1917

Smith Siberina 76 Lincoln 7a 457

so I'm going to order a copy of the certificate to see.

Off to work now, so I'll catch up with you all later

BG |wave|

[Ann65]

Revised Edition!!


1881 – Dawsons Court, Lincoln
Philistia Smith, head, mar, 46, gen lab, Keadby Lincs
Emily wife mar 40 Toft Lincs (d/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray)
Sarah A. dau 10 scholar Gainsborough (d/o Rabbi and Delerina Smith)
Bertha no relationship, 40, Willerton Notts (poss Bathia Boswell in 1861, m/o Adam Boswell/Smith?)
Lucy dau 5 Haxey Lincs
Aradine dau 8 Tickhill Yorks
Alice no relationship 40 Nottingham (poss d/o Elijah Boswell?)
Adam Smith head mar 31 gen lab Kingswood Lighton Yorks (poss s/o William and Bathia Boswell on 1861?)
Hannah wife mar 20, Gainsborough (d/o Jeremiah and Lunetta Boswell)
Jane dau 11 months Lincoln
Geattie son 4 Lincoln
Jeremiah Smith, f-in-law, widower, 40, gen lab, Bubworth Notts (s/o Elijah Boswell and Alice Smith)
Geattie, brother, unm, 27, Gunthorp Lincs (s/o William and Bathia Boswell)
Rylee brother unm, 27 Weller Common Notts (poss Elijah Boswell on 1861, s/o William and Bathia Boswell?)
Sherriff Render boarder mar 47 Everton Notts (Surrender Boswell/Smith)
Adeline Sheriff boarder mar 42 Langworth Derby (Adelaide, w/o Surrender Boswell/Smith, d/o Elijah Boswell)
William Smith boarder mar? 15, Seaton York (s/o William Boswell)
John Charlotte boarder mar 42/22? Scarboro
Jane Smith boarder mar 23 London City
William Smith boarder mar 57 Gamston Notts (s/o Elijah Boswell?)
Keli Gray head mar 34 rag gatherer, South Carlton Lincs (s/o William and Tabitha Grey)
Eva wife mar 30 South Ferriby
Joseph son 10 Bardney s/o Cali and Eva Grey
Mary dau 8 Scarboro d/o Cali and Eva Grey
Isiah/Josiah son 4 Lincoln s/o Cali and Eva Grey
Keli son 9 months Lincoln s/o Cali and Eva Grey
Henry Smith boarder mar 30 gen lab, Stockwith (s/o Elijah Boswell)
Mary Ann boarder mar 31 Northampton
Thomas Smith head mar 41 gen lab Spilsby Lincs (s/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray)
Sophia wife mar 27 Caistor
Joshua son 15 Barkwith
John son 2 Lincoln
Rabbi Smith head mar 24 gen lab Nettleham (s/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray)
Delarina wife 26 Worksop Notts
Moses son 5 Lincoln
Walter son 11 months Lincoln
Moses f-in-law widower 56 rag gatherer Harby Leics (s/o Thomas and Silvia Smith)
Tom Smith head mar 44 rag gatherer Harby Leics (s/o Robert and Evening Smith)
Siberamily wife mar 40 Northampton (Poss Sibberhanah b.cir 1838 on the 1841 CR at Stockon Wks, d/o Rhoda Smith)
Isiah/Josiah son unm 22 North Scarle Lincs
Herbert son 18 Swinderby
Ambrus son 13 Brandon Leics
Isabella dau 7 Lincoln
Mary Ann dau 12 Northamton
John Boswell head mar 22 gen lab Newark
Maria wife mar 20 Nettleham
John son 3 months Lincoln
Francis Mobbs head widow 46 Boston (s/o James Gray and Bethania Smith)
Delerina Mobbs dau 12 York
Emily dau 10 Winteringham
Elisha son 14 Gainsboro
Cornelius son 21 Belton s/o Francis Gray aka Mobbs
Bethany dau 13 Sheffield
Avelin 17 Eastoft
Eliza Smith, boarder, 30, Mansfield Notts (poss d/o Elijah Boswell?)
Alice Smith, boarder, 60, Branston (poss Alice, m/o Jeremiah Boswell?)

[Ann65]

Sophia Smith daughter of Moses Smith and Elderi Gray married Joseph Gray b.cir 1844 Thorpe Yks and is on the 1901 census with him and Thomas and Charlotte Smith, This Tom being the brother of Moses Smith, at Eagle Lin.

Thomas Smith s/o Moses and Elderi married a Sophia b.cir 1850 Caistor Dist.

In 1891 CR they are at Gainsborough – 4 Sailors Alley
Thomas Smith 53 b.cir 1838 Saxilby Gen Lab
Sophia Smith 40 b.cir 1850 Caistor
John Smith 12 b.cir 1879 Lincoln
Moses Smith Father 70 b.cir 1821 Hareby Gen Lab

They are still in Gainsborough in 1901- 7 Winns Yard
Thomas Smith 61 Saxilby Gen Lab
Sophia Smith 50 Caistor
John Smith 22 Lincoln Gen Lab

Next door to them at no 9 is:
Edingal Gray widow b.cir 1838 Willow Rod-Sorter Boston
David Gray son b.cir 1870 Navvy Market Rasen
Ellen T Smith gdtr b.cir 1887 Lincoln

[Ann65]

Ok onto nailing down Alice Smith.

We know she was suposed to be one of at least three daughters of William Smith and Jemima Gray the others being Delizanna and Charlotte, and we know she was suposed to have had a liason with Elijah Boswell along with the other sisters, and that his main 'liason/marriage' was with Harriet Wood(Ward).

A William Smith and Jemima Gray were married in 1802 at Yelling, Hunts.

Delizanna Smith married Elijah Boswell in 1822 at Newton Notts.

Harriet Woodward married Elijah Boswell in 1820 at Walesby Nott.

Given the date of marriage of the presumed parents, these threes births are narrowed down to approx between 1802 and 1810. Regardless of any ages Alice might have either given herself or been guesstimated by the census enumerator.

Now all we have to do, is find them.....

[babygirl101]

Revised Edition!!


1881 – Dawsons Court, Lincoln
Tom Smith head mar 44 rag gatherer Harby Leics (s/o Robert and Evening Smith)
Siberamily wife mar 40 Northampton (Poss Sibberhanah b.cir 1838 on the 1841 CR at Stockon Wks, d/o Rhoda Smith)
)

Ann

You have been a busy bunny this morning. I'm on my lunchbreak but couldn't resist a quick peak to view progress. Hmmmm, that's an interesting one for Siberamily - I hadn't even started to investigate her background, but I've definitely read something somewhere about a Rhoda and that she was married to a Robert Smith - oh how the plot thickens!!!! I seem to recall there being mention of this Robert being the son of Wisdom Smith (1760 something), but this theory has possibly been discounted - I'll check out my source when I get home, but very well done for this.

BG |wave|

[JoanneM]

Just out of interest, this is the census entry that made me realise that Surrenders wife Adelaide was a Boswell (Surrender is in Surrey, aged 26 and a traveller, lodging with a family there). It's also provides the only Sherriff link that I've found so far.

1871 - Bentley with Arksey, Yorkshire (in open fields)
Henry Smith head mar 27 chair mender Yorkshire Sheffield
Jane Smith wife mar 35 (no place listed)
Moses Fielding head unm 42 besom maker Lincolnshire Ferry (William Boswell in 1861)
Maria Smith (no relation listed) unm 34 Northamptonshire/Nottinghamshire(?)
Addam Fielding son unm 21 Yorkshire Laughton
Gehaze Fielding son 18 Lincolnshire Gunthorpe
Adeline Fielding dau 14 Nottinghamshire Tuxford
Riley Fielding son 12 Nottinghamshire Wellow (was Riley Elijah on 1861?)
William Fielding son 5 Yorkshire Seaton
Elias Fielding son 2 Lincolnshire Gunthorpe
Bob Hardy (no relation or condition listed) 52 ratcatcher Nottinghamshire Anston
George Sherriff (no relation or condition listed) 39 grinder Cheshire Macclesfield(?)
Addelade Boswell (no relation or condition listed) 38 Derbyshire Langwith

Moses Fielding is actually William Boswell, as identified by his children in the 1861 census entry:

1861 - Notts Carlton in Lindrick - in tents
William Boswell head marr 37 besom maker notts gainsboro
Bathia Boswell wife 26 notts eskring
Adam son 11 yorks langton (poss Adam Smith in later census)
Elijah son 2 lincoln haxey
Gehaze son 7 lincs ferry
Adley dau 5 notts tuxford
Jeremiah Boswell head marr 26 besom maker born notts elkesley (s/o Elijah Boswell and Alice Smith)
Lunetta wife 30 lincolnshire
Hannah dau 1 gainsboro

I also have some newspaper articles when Surrender has been charged with various offences as Sorrender Boswell in 1850 and as Render Sherriff in 1863, 1867 and 1875.

Additionally I've got a newspaper report stating that 'the order taken out by the Gainsborough Union for the removal of Magnus and Philistia Smith to that union had been abandoned'. I have wondered if Magnus Smith could be Magnus Boswell, son of Elijah Boswell and Alice Smith?

[Ann65]

Got to attend to other stuff at the moment, unfort but just a quickie. Eric Trugehill wrote an article in the last quarterly RTFHS about Wisdom Smith - and he worked out that Robert and Rhoda (previously attributed to Wisdom), is in fact belonging to another family. Ill look out the details later.

Robert was born cir 1808 Gretton, and Rhoda b.cir 1807

Children included:

Thomas c.1829 Benefield Nthants married Harriet b.cir 1831 Melton Leic
Joanett c.1831 Bulwick Nthants
Joseph c.1834 Nassington married Eleanor b.cir 1845 Melton
Vashti c.1839 Corby Nthants
Robert c.1841 Wittering Nthants married Ann b.cir 1846 Kingscliffe
Cinderella c.1843 Nassington
Aaron c.1846 Nassington
Enoch c.1849 Nassington
Matilda c.1851 Deene Nthants.

[Ann65]

PS should add that it was down to Erics hard work, in eliminating Robert and Rhoda, that I realised that Robert and Evening Smith were the right couple.

[babygirl101]

PS should add that it was down to Erics hard work, in eliminating Robert and Rhoda, that I realised that Robert and Evening Smith were the right couple.

That's the conclusion I've come to, too Ann and you're quite right I knew I read about Robert & Rhoda somewhere - well done eagle eyes, i was just about to look it up, so you've saved me the trouble.

I'm home now so I'll carry on with the search

BG

[babygirl101]

PS should add that it was down to Erics hard work, in eliminating Robert and Rhoda, that I realised that Robert and Evening Smith were the right couple.

My only concern about my Robert & Evening is that although the dates looks right Robert was born in Whitwick which is north Leicestershire which seems a bit out of the way in comparison to the rest of the family - any thoguhts on that offering??

BG

[Ann65]

Moses Fielding is actually William Boswell, as identified by his children in the 1861 census entry:

Additionally I've got a newspaper report stating that 'the order taken out by the Gainsborough Union for the removal of Magnus and Philistia Smith to that union had been abandoned'. I have wondered if Magnus Smith could be Magnus Boswell, son of Elijah Boswell and Alice Smith?

If the age or place of birth is anywhere near accurate I would think it most certainly is, especially since other children of Alice seem to adopt the Smith Surname.

The most unusual name changes Ive come across are:

Elias Gray who was son of James and Bethania, who has been seen on census as
both William Gray and Walter Hearn.

A Francis Brown aka Henry Stapleton

and this one took some working out!:

List of persons not in houses, Mkt Weighton, Nfk

? Golass husb 1826 Spalding <...... Khulai Heron
Relio Golass wife 1815 Acomb Yks <.....Dorelia Boswell
Edward Golass 1857
John Golass 1851
Nelson Golass 1854
Sarah Golass 1855
William Golass 1849

John Gray 30 Gipsy Not Known "Johnny" s/o John Budd Gray and Maria Boswell
Vasty Gray 25 Wife Gipsy Norwich "Wasti" nee Lee d/o Zachariah.
Delila Gray 1 Gipsy Selby Yks
Prudence Young 29 wife Gipsy Borough Bridge NYks

Byron Raney 1821 <..... aka Byron Young
Jane Raney 1826 Lincs
Byron Raney1851
Delila Raney 1859
Formiga Raney 1856
Louisa Raney 1855
Oliver Raney 1852
Vasty Raney 1846

[Ann65]

My only concern about my Robert & Evening is that although the dates looks right Robert was born in Whitwick which is north Leicestershire which seems a bit out of the way in comparison to the rest of the family - any thoguhts on that offering??

BG

They all travelled far and wide through the year in their various trades. Whitwick Ive seen before as a rom stopping place, along with other places such as Harby. I wouldnt read too much into it to be honest.

[babygirl101]

They all travelled far and wide through the year in their various trades. Whitwick Ive seen before as a rom stopping place, along with other places such as Harby. I wouldnt read too much into it to be honest.

I'm trying not to, but it would nice to be able to verify it somehow, as it would confirm that Wisdom Smith (1763) was my great, great, great, great grandfather. It's the only piece of the jigsaw that's missing everything seems to check out. Still I'm sure I'll get there one day. Anyway I'll get back to going through the information you've been busy working on today.

BG :D

[Ann65]

Jeremiah Boswell head marr 26 besom maker born notts elkesley (s/o Elijah Boswell and Alice Smith)
Lunetta wife 30 lincolnshire
Hannah dau 1 gainsboro


possibly a long stretch here but I havent been able to find anything on Lunetta so I wondered if

Thomas c.1829 Benefield Nthants married Harriet b.cir 1831 Melton Leic
Joanett c.1831 Bulwick Nthants

she was the daughter of Thomas and Harriet, Thomas being the son of Robert and Rhoda Smith????

[Ann65]

Oh I should add, Jeremiah Boswell/Smith is a widow in 1881, (theres a scribble that looks like hes a widow in 1871), and then appears to marry one Charlotte Rouse before appearing in 1891 and 1901.

17 Dawsons Ct St Nicholas Lincs 1891
Jeremiah Smith 60 Retford Notts Drover
Charlotte Smith 34 Lincoln Lincs

12 Bilton St St Nicholas Lincs 1901
Jeremiah Smith 65 Tetford Nott
Charlotte Smith 52 Lincoln

He marries Charlotte Rouse Dec Qtr 1881 in the Lincoln District (GRO Index)
He appears to die Sept Qtr 1907 in the Lincoln District (GRO Index)

[Ann65]

Going on the possibility that Alice Smiths children, whilst Baptised as Boswells generally used her Smith surname, I turned up a few odds and ends apart from Jeremiah.


Okey Boswell was married as Okey Smith in 1859 East Retford Dist (GRO) to Meranul Booth.
This is definately him as Ochee Boswell and Maraneel had Mazaneel baptised at Scotter in 1854.

Even more interestingly, there on the GRO Index with Okey Smith and Meranul Booth, most likely a joint wedding, was:

Magnus Smith marrying Mary Ann Smith.

He seems elusive whether using the Smith name or the Boswell name, but I did find this:

Magnus Smith d.1870 Gainsborough Dist (aged 40)

[Ann65]

Hmm heres another one for ya.....

Surrender Herring s/o Abraham & Nancy c.11.05.1828 Hibaldstow Lin
LIONETTA Herring d/o Abraham & Nancy c.08.12.1833 Elvington Yk
Deliah Herring d/o Abraham & Nancy c.03.12.1837 Husthwaithe with Carlton, Yk

[babygirl101]

Revised Edition!!


1881 – Dawsons Court, Lincoln
Philistia Smith, head, mar, 46, gen lab, Keadby Lincs
Emily wife mar 40 Toft Lincs (d/o Moses Smith and Eldria Gray)
Sarah A. dau 10 scholar Gainsborough (d/o Rabbi and Delerina Smith)


Hi Ann

Phew, that's taken some working through, virtually everything you've done matches up with my information what a relief!

The only exception being Sarah A - I have her as :-

Sarah A. Smith
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Philistia
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Female
Where born: Gainsboro, Lincoln, England
9 Dawsons CT

Any suggestions??|help|

BG

[babygirl101]

Hmm heres another one for ya.....

Surrender Herring s/o Abraham & Nancy c.11.05.1828 Hibaldstow Lin
LIONETTA Herring d/o Abraham & Nancy c.08.12.1833 Elvington Yk
Deliah Herring d/o Abraham & Nancy c.03.12.1837 Husthwaithe with Carlton, Yk

Where have you come across these????????? I've done a quick trawl and can't find them

BG

[Ann65]

IGI

[Ann65]

Hi Ann

Phew, that's taken some working through, virtually everything you've done matches up with my information what a relief!

The only exception being Sarah A - I have her as :-

Sarah A. Smith
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Philistia
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Female
Where born: Gainsboro, Lincoln, England
9 Dawsons CT

Any suggestions??|help|

BG

She appears as d/o Rabbi and Delerena on other census returns. Joannes directly descended from her.

[Ann65]

Found a ref on the IGI for Alice Smith marrying Elijah Boswell.

1829 at Sutton Cum Lound, Notts.

No other info. Grrrr. Anyone with access to Sutton Cum Lound PRs?

[JoanneM]

I've been out all day and just checked in - there's some information to go through now.

The only exception being Sarah A - I have her as :-

Sarah A. Smith
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Philistia
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Female
Where born: Gainsboro, Lincoln, England
9 Dawsons CT

Any suggestions??|help|

BG

She's the daughter of Delerina, born in Gainsborough workhouse. There's no father named, but she gives Rabbi, who Delerina subsequently married, as her father when she married. I don't know why she is Philistia and Emilys daughter in 1881.

Right, off to have a read through this thread now.

[Ann65]

Ok, good news and bad. Ive cast a few queries about hoping to find someone with the info on the marriages I posted up.

Seems the IGI references of Alice Smith and Delizanna Smith are dubious as they have no batch numbers associated for them, and it seems no one can find these references at least at this moment in time. However the marriage of Harriet Woodward is verified.

Furthermore, it seems the marriage of William Smith and Jemima Gray is also verified:

1/11/1802 Yelling, Hunts.
Smith William otp Gypsy. & Gray Jemima (x) otp Gypsy.Wit. Charles Macklane (x) & John Ashcroft.

Both people called gypsies having pitched their tent in this parish during the time their banns were published.

[babygirl101]

I've been out all day and just checked in - there's some information to go through now.



She's the daughter of Delerina, born in Gainsborough workhouse. There's no father named, but she gives Rabbi, who Delerina subsequently married, as her father when she married. I don't know why she is Philistia and Emilys daughter in 1881.

Right, off to have a read through this thread now.

Well that's solved another mystery. Once again, thank you for all your help Ann

BG

[babygirl101]

Well that's solved another mystery. Once again, thank you for all your help Ann
BG



and Joanne - ooops sorry, I've just realized there were 2 posts on this one

BG

[Ann65]

Cant Help but wonder if this Jemima Gray (who married William Smith) is

Jemima Gray d/o George & Martha c.07.10.1770 Gt Shelford Cam. If she is, then she also had a daughter called Jemima Gray c.27.06.1790 Teversham Cam, who was known as Revine Gray.

[Ann65]

& JUST when you all hoped Id finally shut up :D Ive got a bee in my bonnet!


Now Thomas Smith brother of Moses Smith settled in Eagle Lin with his wife Charlotte.

Now In the 1901 CR with them are one Joseph Gray b.cir 1844 Thorpe Yks and his wife Sophia b.cir 1843 Harby Leic. - and they are described as Neph & Niece.

She is almost certainly the niece - the Sophia Gray b.cir 1841 Harby Leic d/o Moses and Elderi.

and its gone up my nose that I have no idea who this Joseph Gray is b.cir 1844 Thorpe Yk.

Now on another census they turn up again and Joseph Gray b.cir 1842 Rotherham Yks is with wife Sophia b.cir 1839 Harby Leic. So far so good.

But then in 1871 suddenly up pops a Uriah Gray b.cir 1845 Atterby Yk with wife Sophia b.cir 1835 Lincoln, visiting with Sidney Gray and Edingirl Smith, Sidney being son of William Gray and Tabitha.

This alerted me to this:

In the 1861 census, Sidney is listed as wid (of Violet presumably) and is with his children Hurton b.cir 1845 Thorpe Yks, and Margaret b.cir 1849 Burton Lin.

Now Hurton appears nowhere else, but his place of birth and Josephs tally perfectly. So did Hurton Gray become Joseph Gray, and did he briefly become Uriah Gray in the middle????

[babygirl101]

& JUST when you all hoped Id finally shut up :D Ive got a bee in my bonnet!


Now Thomas Smith brother of Moses Smith settled in Eagle Lin with his wife Charlotte.

Now In the 1901 CR with them are one Joseph Gray b.cir 1844 Thorpe Yks and his wife Sophia b.cir 1843 Harby Leic. - and they are described as Neph & Niece.

She is almost certainly the niece - the Sophia Gray b.cir 1841 Harby Leic d/o Moses and Elderi.

and its gone up my nose that I have no idea who this Joseph Gray is b.cir 1844 Thorpe Yk.

Now on another census they turn up again and Joseph Gray b.cir 1842 Rotherham Yks is with wife Sophia b.cir 1839 Harby Leic. So far so good.

But then in 1871 suddenly up pops a Uriah Gray b.cir 1845 Atterby Yk with wife Sophia b.cir 1835 Lincoln, visiting with Sidney Gray and Edingirl Smith, Sidney being son of William Gray and Tabitha.

This alerted me to this:

In the 1861 census, Sidney is listed as wid (of Violet presumably) and is with his children Hurton b.cir 1845 Thorpe Yks, and Margaret b.cir 1849 Burton Lin.

Now Hurton appears nowhere else, but his place of birth and Josephs tally perfectly. So did Hurton Gray become Joseph Gray, and did he briefly become Uriah Gray in the middle????

Ann

I can't even begin to get my head around this one, so I'll look at it first thing tomorrow unless someone else has a solution tonight. I've had my 'fix' of this for today, so I'll say bfn and catch you tomorrow.

BG |wave|

ps - you haven't got a bee in your bonnet - you're just totally addicted, just like me hehe

[Ann65]

hehehe goodnite - I think my brain has had enough for now too!

[JoanneM]

But then in 1871 suddenly up pops a Uriah Gray b.cir 1845 Atterby Yk with wife Sophia b.cir 1835 Lincoln, visiting with Sidney Gray and Edingirl Smith, Sidney being son of William Gray and Tabitha.
Hmm, I'm very tired right now, so this may not be relevant, or even make sense. In 1871 Uriah Gray is aged 25 and in Market Rasen.

In 1891 there is a Uriah Smith, aged 45 and with a birthplace of Market Rasen and living in Dawsons Court, married to Eveline and living alongside a couple of sons of Thomas and Siberamily.

In 1891 Uriah is aged 55, still born Market Rasen, and Eveline has become an Evening. They are listed with Josiah Smith, son of Thomas and Siberamily. I can't, at the minute, find this Uriah Smith before 1891.

It does get addictive, doesn't it? These are my husbands family, and much as I love my own, they did make it very easy for me to research, staying in the same village for generations. I'm finding that the more of a challenge it is, the more fun it is, and the rewards are so much greater.

[babygirl101]

Hmm, I'm very tired right now, so this may not be relevant, or even make sense. In 1871 Uriah Gray is aged 25 and in Market Rasen.

In 1891 there is a Uriah Smith, aged 45 and with a birthplace of Market Rasen and living in Dawsons Court, married to Eveline and living alongside a couple of sons of Thomas and Siberamily.

In 1891 Uriah is aged 55, still born Market Rasen, and Eveline has become an Evening. They are listed with Josiah Smith, son of Thomas and Siberamily. I can't, at the minute, find this Uriah Smith before 1891.

It does get addictive, doesn't it? These are my husbands family, and much as I love my own, they did make it very easy for me to research, staying in the same village for generations. I'm finding that the more of a challenge it is, the more fun it is, and the rewards are so much greater.



Joanne - don't do that!!! you frightened the life out of me for a minute. I thought I'd got all my history totally wrong hehe!!!! mentioning Evening who I thought was well and truly dead, linking Uriah to Thomas & Siberamily!!! eeek, naughty girl.

I actually printed out all the inhabitants of Dawsons Court but hadn't had a chance to go through them, although I'd noticed Uriah it didn't really register.

Anyway shock over:-

Harriett Smith 17
Sibey Smith 52
Thomas Smith 59
Thomas Smith 14

are all living together as I expected, the only change is that Harriett b. 1874 has changed her name from Isabella as she was recorded on 1881 Census:-

Ambrus Smith 13
Herbert Smith 18
Isabella Smith 7
Josiah Smith 22
Mary Ann Smith 12
Siberamily Smith 40
Tom Smith 44

Ambrus, Herbert & Josiah have flown the nest by 1891.

Ambrus, has become Ambrose and is living close by with his family:-

Ambrose Smith 32
Ann Smith 22
Emily Smith 3

Josiah has now married and still living close by, but has become Isiah:-

Isiah Smith 32
Isiah Smith 4
John W Smith 1
Sarah Smith 23

So far like you I haven't found a Uriah.

I have also lost Herbert - ooops, very careless. There's one possibility but it doesn't really look very likely:-

Emma E Smith 27
Herbert Smith 29


The interesting one for me is his wife Eveline, Evening. Thomas (1834) husband of Siberamily's mother was Evening, Eveline and finally Eve, but she died 1872. Until now I hadn't come across that name anywhere else. I feel sure there must be a connection.


I'm off to search more for both Uriah & Evening.


BG

[JoanneM]

Joanne - don't do that!!! you frightened the life out of me for a minute. I thought I'd got all my history totally wrong hehe!!!! mentioning Evening who I thought was well and truly dead, linking Uriah to Thomas & Siberamily!!! eeek, naughty girl.

Sorry, lol. I thought that there must be a connection with the name Evening. Also thought that the combination of the name Uriah, his age (although he'd probably be the first to be consistent with his age through the census) and the instance of Market Rasen was interesting, although Uriah Gray and Uriah Smith may well be two different people.

[babygirl101]

Sorry, lol. I thought that there must be a connection with the name Evening. Also thought that the combination of the name Uriah, his age (although he'd probably be the first to be consistent with his age through the census) and the instance of Market Rasen was interesting, although Uriah Gray and Uriah Smith may well be two different people.

I'll forgive you lol!!!!

Try this one for size. Keli Gray was on 1881 census living at Dawsons Court:-

Eva Gray 30
Iisiah Gray 4
Joseph Gray 10
Keli Gray 34
Keli Gray
Mary Gray 8
Henry Smith 30
Mary Ann Smith 31

I can't find them anywhere else after that, as yet! Then suddenly Uriah & co turn up in the same location.

Wife Eva becomes Eveline/Evening (a family name??) right age; daughter Mary Gray aged 8 becomes Maria Smith aged 17 ...

bit of a coincidence, cuold be nothing but ....

here we go again with if's and buts lol

BG

[babygirl101]

& JUST when you all hoped Id finally shut up :D Ive got a bee in my bonnet!


Now Thomas Smith brother of Moses Smith settled in Eagle Lin with his wife Charlotte.

Now In the 1901 CR with them are one Joseph Gray b.cir 1844 Thorpe Yks and his wife Sophia b.cir 1843 Harby Leic. - and they are described as Neph & Niece.

She is almost certainly the niece - the Sophia Gray b.cir 1841 Harby Leic d/o Moses and Elderi.

and its got up my nose that I have no idea who this Joseph Gray is b.cir 1844 Thorpe Yk.

Now on another census they turn up again and Joseph Gray b.cir 1842 Rotherham Yks is with wife Sophia b.cir 1839 Harby Leic. So far so good.

But then in 1871 suddenly up pops a Uriah Gray b.cir 1845 Atterby Yk with wife Sophia b.cir 1835 Lincoln, visiting with Sidney Gray and Edingirl Smith, Sidney being son of William Gray and Tabitha.



This is becoming tiresome lol, why can't they just stick to the same names, they clearly had no consideration for us future generations trying to track them down had they??????|banghead|

I haven't got any record of Sophia marrying, so possibly she married this Joseph Gray, in which he would be a nephew-in-law. It still doesn't explain who he was though, but it would explain what happened to Sophia, b 1841.

Also you refer to Sophia Gray, whereas I have her as Sophia Smith (1861 Census gives her the surname Smith).

Sophia Smith
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Moses
Mother's Name: Eldred
Gender: Female
Where born: Harby, Leicestershire, England

See my earlier post for Uriah. I'll keep on searching.

BG |5cups|

[babygirl101]

& JUST when you all hoped Id finally shut up :D Ive got a bee in my bonnet!


Now Thomas Smith brother of Moses Smith settled in Eagle Lin with his wife Charlotte.




Re Thomas & Moses, I know that were brothers, but I've come up with another Smith on IGI who was also born in Teigh, Rutland the year before Thomas, the only problem being that he has different parents, I wonder if he was a cousin or something:-

LEVI SMITH
Christening: 17 JUN 1810 Teigh, Rutland, England
Mother: SOPHIA SMITH

He appears on the 1861 census with his wife Safa (b. c1813) and their family.

My connection to them is with their son Arthur, who it appears later becomes Hawthorn. Hawthorn (b. c1843) was born in Buckminster, Leicestershire. He went on to marry Lydia Smith (aka Ingleton) from Skillington. Lydia being the daughter of Eliza Smith who was married to Robert Smith, son of Robert & Evening Smith.

Hawthorns marriage certificate records Levi as his father and Robert as Lydias father.


Confused, you will be!!! Any help on this one gratefully received.

BG

[Ann65]

Kelli and Eve/Eva do turn up on other census's - its just the enumerator couldnt spell his name. Try doing a search for eve eva Gray of Sth Ferriby. Youll find them then.

[babygirl101]

Kelli and Eve/Eva do turn up on other census's - its just the enumerator couldnt spell his name. Try doing a search for eve eva Gray of Sth Ferriby. Youll find them then.

Well there's a surprise, I've seen it spelt in several different ways lol. So, that's me shot down in flames lol hehe!!!! I'll give that one a go later, but it doesn't solve our mystery man, I'll keep looking

BG

[babygirl101]

Kelli and Eve/Eva do turn up on other census's - its just the enumerator couldnt spell his name. Try doing a search for eve eva Gray of Sth Ferriby. Youll find them then.

As always Ann, you were quite right, I've found them all, but the spelling leaves a lot to be desired, doesn't it lol. Onwards with the search.

BG

[JoanneM]

I've spent some time today looking at the children of Elijah Boswell and his various wives.

Ann, earlier on in this thread you gave me his children as:

Isaiah or Elisha c.1823 Welbourn Lin s/o Elijah and Harriet
Herilah/Riley c.1827 Bole Notts s/o Elijah and Harriet
William c.1827 Gamston Nott s/o Elijah and Charlotte
Erydina (Smith or Boswell) c.1830 Upper Langwith Dby d/o Elijah and Charlotte
Adam c.1830 Walesby s/o Elijah and Charlotte
Okey c.1830 Sutton Cum Lound, Notts s/o Elijah and Alice
Sidney c.1831 Walesby
Annice c.1832 East Markham Nott d/o Elijah and Charlotte
Jeremiah c.1832 Babworth Notts s/o Elijah and Alice
Magnus c.1834 Longford Dby s/o Elijah and Alice
Rudolphus c.1836 Babworth Nott s/o Elijah and Alice
Joseph c.1837 Clarborough Nott s/o Elijah and Charlotte
Lucy c.1846 Scotter Lincs. d/o Elijah and Charlotte
Walter c.1851 Kneesall Nott s/o Elijah and Alice

I've found a newspaper article from 1853 which lists (it says from Elijahs own archives) his children by his three wives. They are listed as:

1. Eliza, born among the ling in Mansfield forest
2. Henrietta, born in Thieves'-dale-lane, near Osberton
3. Alfred, born in Treswell Back-lane
4. Walter, born on Kneesall-green
5. Adelaide, born in a lane between Langwith and Pleasley
6. Henry, born in a lane near West Stockwith
7. Lucy, born under Firbeck-park-side
8. Adam, born on Walesby Breck
9. William, born in Gamston-wood
10. James, born in Layard's Leap, between Newark and Sleaford
11. Elijah, born near Sturton High-house
12. Magnus, born in a lane, near Langford
13. Riley, born near Bole guide-post
14. Alice, born in a lane, near Mattersey Gorse.

Now whilst there's 14 children in each there's an obvious difference in that the first list has 11 boys and 3 girls, and the second has 9 boys and 5 girls.

The ones that agree are Walter, Adam, William, Magnus, Riley, Erydina/Adelaide and Lucy.

Eliza, born among the ling in Mansfield forest, is, I think, the Eliza Smith on the 1881 census at Dawsons Court who goes on to marry Francis Gray/Mobbs.
Henrietta, born in Thieves'-dale-lane, near Osberton. No idea who she is, but on an OS map there is an East Thievesdale Wood close to Osberton, near Worksop.
Alfred, born Treswell Back-lane. Could he be Sidney? Sidney married Eleanor/Ellen Charlotte who had a liaison with Dennis Smith, father of Sylvestia Smith. On Sylvestias marriage cert one of the witnesses was an Alfred Boswell. And Treswell's not far from Retford which Sidney gives as his birthplace.
Henry, born in a lane near West Stockwith. This is the Henry who shows up as 'brother' on the 1861 census with Surrender and Adelaide and is also in Dawsons Court in 1881.
James, born in Layard's Leap, between Newark and Sleaford. Again, no idea who he is, but I think his birthplace should be Bayards Leap which is just outside Cranwell in Lincolnshire, and on the road between Newark and Sleaford.
Elijah, born near Sturton High-house. I think he may be Joseph on the former list, as, looking on an OS map, I've found Sturton High House very close by Clarborough in Nottinghamshire.
Alice, born in a lane, near Mattersey Gorse. Is she Annice on the first list?

On the first list there is Isiah/Elisha, Okey, Jeremiah and Rudolphus that I can't match up to anyone on the second list (although I suppose Isiah/Elisha could be Elijah although the birthplace doesn't match)

I'm confused now (easily done, I know, lol).

[Ann65]

Hmmm..... well originally the general names of children came from Terence Lees book The Lee Family Tree Vol2, which I purchased many years ago now when it was all much harder to research - I did since check on the IGI for baptisms and found most of them I think. I have since lost them in a hard drive failure but I can spend some time going through the IGI and rechecking data easily enough.

Happy birthday to me by the way, 43 today.

Ann

[JoanneM]

Happy birthday to me by the way, 43 today.

Happy Birthday Ann.

I can find IGI refs for all the ones you gave me, except Lucy, but I don't think the Scotter/Scotton parish regs are on the IGI.

It doesn't help that the newspaper article I found doesn't mentions dates, just names and birthplaces, but there does seem to be some extra children in there, or some going by alternate names. Going off to have another play with the IGI myself now.

[Ann65]

Ok Ive been through it all and found the following (which I would call verified references) on the IGI.

Elijah Boswell & Harriet
Adam c.26.12.1820 Walesby Nott
Herilah c.04.03.1827 Bole Nott

Elisha Boswell & Harriet
Isaiah c.12.04.1823 Welbourn Lin

Elijah Boswell & Charlotte
William c.15.08.1827 Gamston By E.Retford Nott
Annis c.24.12.1832 East Markham Nott
Lucy c.13.05.1846 Scotter Lin

Elijah Boswell & Charlotte Smith
Erydina c.05.12.1830 Upper Langwith Dby
Joseph c.25.12.1837 Clarborough Nott

Elijah Boswell & Alice
Magnus c.15.04.1834 Longford Dby

Elijah Boswell & Ellice
Okey Boswell c.03.01.1830 Sutton Cum Lound Nott

Alice Boswell
Jeremiah c.28.01.1832 Babworth Nott
Rudolphus c.04.12.1836 Babworth Nott
Walter c.19.05.1851 Kneesall Nott


There are a couple missing so I must have either picked those refs up from mr Lee or picked them up from one of the other Lincs area/Boswell researchers - or possibly disappeared up my own backside and made them up ;)

Had a search for Eliza, Henrietta, Alfred, Adelaide, Henry, James and Elijah. No joy under the Boswell name. I shall be back....

[Ann65]

'James, born in Layard's Leap, between Newark and Sleaford. Again, no idea who he is, but I think his birthplace should be Bayards Leap which is just outside Cranwell in Lincolnshire, and on the road between Newark and Sleaford.'

Yes its Bayards Leap. Ive been there. Bayard was a blind horse who leapt something like 50 yards (so the story goes) to kill an old witch. There are 4 horseshoes marking the spot where he is supposed to have landed.

[JoanneM]

I think Adelaide is Erydina. If I'm right that she's Surrenders wife then in 1861 she's aged 30 born Notts, 1871 she's aged 38 born Langwith, Derbyshire and in 1881 aged 42 born Langworth, Derbyshire.

[babygirl101]

Happy birthday to me by the way, 43 today.

Ann

Happy birthday to you for today, I'm 21 again on Wednesday

|birthday|

[babygirl101]

I've spent some time today looking at the children of Elijah Boswell and his various wives.

Ann, earlier on in this thread you gave me his children as:

Isaiah or Elisha c.1823 Welbourn Lin s/o Elijah and Harriet
Herilah/Riley c.1827 Bole Notts s/o Elijah and Harriet
William c.1827 Gamston Nott s/o Elijah and Charlotte
Erydina (Smith or Boswell) c.1830 Upper Langwith Dby d/o Elijah and Charlotte
Adam c.1830 Walesby s/o Elijah and Charlotte
Okey c.1830 Sutton Cum Lound, Notts s/o Elijah and Alice
Sidney c.1831 Walesby
Annice c.1832 East Markham Nott d/o Elijah and Charlotte
Jeremiah c.1832 Babworth Notts s/o Elijah and Alice
Magnus c.1834 Longford Dby s/o Elijah and Alice
Rudolphus c.1836 Babworth Nott s/o Elijah and Alice
Joseph c.1837 Clarborough Nott s/o Elijah and Charlotte
Lucy c.1846 Scotter Lincs. d/o Elijah and Charlotte
Walter c.1851 Kneesall Nott s/o Elijah and Alice

I've found a newspaper article from 1853 which lists (it says from Elijahs own archives) his children by his three wives. They are listed as:

1. Eliza, born among the ling in Mansfield forest
2. Henrietta, born in Thieves'-dale-lane, near Osberton
3. Alfred, born in Treswell Back-lane
4. Walter, born on Kneesall-green
5. Adelaide, born in a lane between Langwith and Pleasley
6. Henry, born in a lane near West Stockwith
7. Lucy, born under Firbeck-park-side
8. Adam, born on Walesby Breck
9. William, born in Gamston-wood
10. James, born in Layard's Leap, between Newark and Sleaford
11. Elijah, born near Sturton High-house
12. Magnus, born in a lane, near Langford
13. Riley, born near Bole guide-post
14. Alice, born in a lane, near Mattersey Gorse.

Now whilst there's 14 children in each there's an obvious difference in that the first list has 11 boys and 3 girls, and the second has 9 boys and 5 girls.

The ones that agree are Walter, Adam, William, Magnus, Riley, Erydina/Adelaide and Luc