Looking for emigration date for Churchill-Bateman

[Omega]

My Grandparents and their 5 sons emigrated to Australia and I would like to know the date they left and the date they arrived in Sydney please. I have found that Leslie was born 1920 2nd quarter and he was about 2 when they arrived in Sydney so the year would be approximately 1922. They were Arthur Churchill and Phyllis Louise (nee Taylor) Bateman their sons were Arthur Joseph C, Ralph John C, Donnald Robert C, Kenneth David C and Leslie R C.

Arthur Churchill Bateman
b / /1887 Bristol
d / / 1950 burial
m April 1909
Phyllis Louise Taylor
b / /1889 Bristol
d 11/12/1968 cremation

Arthur Joseph C b 14/8/1909 in Liverpool d / /1965 burial
Ralph John C b 9/2/1912 in Grimsby d 16/10/1986 cremation
Donald Robert C b 1914 in ? d /1992 burial
Kenneth David C b 12/3/1917 in London d 19/01/1999 cremation
Leslie R C b 1920 in Rugby d /1938 ?


Thank you

Omega

PS:
The CHURCHILL- wasn't used as part of the surname until after immigrating into Australia. The CHURCHILL was used as a christian name at birth it is their grandmother's maiden name.

[kmdward]

you need to look up the GRO index for BDM and get the reference number, then order the certificate. You can do this online (pay per view) at www.gro.gov.uk .
For the emigration and shipping records, you would need to contact the State Records Office of NSW, while they do have a website I don't think the online indexes go into the 20th century. So it may have to wait until you can either go yourself or pay someone to do the research for you.

[ChristineR]

They have some emigration records in the Australian Archives Recordsearch index - but not these ones yet - however I did spot the war service record of your father, where it says he was born in London.

http://www.naa.gov.au/The_collection/recordsearch.html

:) Christine

[Omega]

Christine

Thank you very much for your help I appreciate all I can get and I not only got info about my Dad but also 2 of his brothers. Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou

Deirdre

[ChristineR]

http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/

this is the World War 2 Nominal roll - a little more info on there, like enlistment date, discharge, rank and company when discharged, etc.

Christine

[Omega]

I went in to the link you gave and found the extensive list which gave me the birth places of all three of the brothers that served one didn't because of religeous beliefs and the youngest died of cancer at 18 actually it was when Les went into hospital with what they thought was appendisitus that my dad stood in for him at work and met mum so as they say all things happen for a reason even the sad ones. Still cant find any links to get info on Arthur and Phylis and yes the 1909 marriage details should be them. Are there any free links to get births deaths and marriages info or do you have to request and pay.

Thanks again

Deirdre

[Omega]

I went into the sight you suggested but got totally lost it kept giving me hospital records but not the type where I would get any info needed ... thank you for your help. Where would a person go to get the info on emigration arrivals in NSW I have a friend living in Sydney who may go in for me. But how do I get a copy of my dad's birthcertificate or find out which hospital he was born in in London?????????

Deirdre

[kmdward]

For your Dad's birth you state that he was born March 1917 in Kent, so by looking at the GRO website you should search for his name for births in England for 1917. The surname is unusual so there should only be one.!!! Hopefully your dad would be registered in the March quarter of 1917, but just in case your grandparents were a bit slow in registering him, take a look at the rest of the year. You will first get an index entry with reference number, the index only lists name and registration district of birth. In England the GRO issued the BDM index each quarter so March, June, Sept, Dec. for each year. The registration district is a government area, so place of birth might be different. (Like being born in Cairns but being registered in Brisbane.) Once you have found the correct index entry, then you have the option to purchase the certificate. They will accept credit cards over the web and the site is very secure. Some family history/ genealogy centres have copies of the GRO index, but i'm not sure how far your closest one is or if they would have the year you want. There are some other sites that have some or all of the GRO indexes on line, but they are all pay per view, and you would still have to order the certificate to get any details.

[kmdward]

The state record office of NSW website is www.records.nsw.gov.au then click on State Archieves, then in the colomn headed Explore the Archives, there is an entry Indexs Online click on that, then go down the list to emigration and shipping records. Have a look at the other areas on the site, you never know your luck.
Next to the Explore the Archieve column there is column headed How to Use the Archieves, with hints on getting started.
I'm not sure how easy the records will be to accesss if your friend goes in person, so do as much homework as possible before hand. As you don't know what year your Dad arrived, she could be searching through a lot of records.

[Omega]

Went into ww2 records and found out my Dad was born in London my Mum doesn't know where I got Kent from ... she isn't alone. Dad wouldn't talk about being born in England back then the pom thing was rife can not understand some genertations not wanting to be proud of there roots it is not possible to be proud of your past and be proud of the person you are because you are not the person your without your past. Does this make sence to you. Sorry I get passionate about people not admitting there connections... why now they are even proud us punch to say my ancesters were convicts ... I'll stop.

Deirdre

[ChristineR]

If you get a copy of your own birth certificate (full) or a copy of your parents marriage you should be able to confirm your father's birthplace.

:) Christine

[Omega]

I've got a full birth cirtificate but didn't think to look at it. I'll dig it out tomorrow and look. It is a bit like not seeing the forrest for the trees, you don't think of the simple. Thats my excuse and I am sticking to it. lol

Thank you... Deirdre

[Omega]

Hi Christine

Dad wasn't real helpful - when I found my b/certificate his birth place was listed England. I wonder how many others got away with that and now make it difficult for future generations.....I accidently posted on Isle of Man and a Jo Simpson was very polite in suggesting I try elsewhere LOL but she did find a marriage record for Arthur Churchill & Phyllis Louise Taylor and by using the link I found the record for Arthur Palmer Bateman & Mary Churchill . the link if you haven't got it is

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/

well that hasn't come up right that is the correct wording though as I copied it from one message to another.

Well where I am at the moment is gro wont let me in to find out how much certificates are in Australian dollars you wouldn't the going price at the now would you?

Catch you later

Deirdre

[Omega]

Hi Christine

I got the cost for gro will follow through there. Thank you for your help.
Deirdre

[ChristineR]

Hi Deirdre
sorry missed your post - our dollar has just gone up a bit, so a certificate from GRO will convert better now! :) They usually work out somewhere between 25 and 30 Aussie dollars.

Good Luck
Christine :)

[Omega]

Have worked out that my family would have travelled from Britian as Bateman and only the boys would have had the Churchill- added to the Bateman on arrival in Australia. I don't know where Lesley was born he was the youngest but my dad Kenneth David was born in London re his Army records he only put England on my birthcertificate. Help with the emigration dates would be appreciated as I have hit a wall in Australia.

Thank you

Deirdre

[Omega]

Hi Christine

Here we go again.

Using Leslie's birth year 1920 and working on dad being here for all his schooling we would logically be looking at an emmigration date of 1921/22 can this be verified?

Deirdre

[Omega]

Hi everyone

I have changed the original posting to all the updated info. I still need blanks filled in but I do need EMMIGRATION AND IMMIGRATION DATES PLEASE.

Thank you for all your interest, time and effort and all the help and advice it has all been appreciated and fruitful.

Thank you

Deirdre

[ChristineR]

Hi Christine

Here we go again.

Using Leslie's birth year 1920 and working on dad being here for all his schooling we would logically be looking at an emmigration date of 1921/22 can this be verified?

Deirdre
Hi Deidre,

How do you know that your dad went to school in Australia? Maybe he came here not long before he married? Just curious.

Christine

[Omega]

Mum told me.

I've got two photos of dad that mum said were taken in Sydney not long after they arrived - I new I had them but I didn't know where they were taken. I'll see if I can get them to you.

Deirdre

[Omega]

Did I say that the emigration name would have been BATEMAN as the hyphon wasn't added until they arrived here and only in the boys names and a couple of them dropped the hyphon and a couple kept it. very confusing.

Deirdre

[Omega]

Ok Christine I give in. Yes they did arrive in Sydney but not until 1927, Record of arrival found http://naa12.naa.gov.au Ship Beltana arrived 10/5/1927 port of disembarkation - Sydney Family Name: Bateman A Mr Barcode no 11552371.

This means dad was 10 years old but he did a lot of schooling in Australia.

Thanks for your efforts, Now from this can we find out where they left from and what date.

I'll try a surf and see what I can find.

Deirdre

[ChristineR]

well done Deidre, see you must take everything that you are told with a grain of salt! and never presume...

easily said than done :D

[Omega]

Christine

The Beltana was a steam ship were the ships coming to Australia in 1882 steam or sail. I am trying to work out a time line for them leaving England. 1882 Annie Hunt left England 2nd Feb and arrived Brisbane 27 May round figures 3mths would that be the same for a steamship and mean that the Beltana left ? 23rd Jan + or - a day or two. The ship Annie arrived on was the Southesk.

Deirdre

[ChristineR]

Hi again Deirdre,

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/descriptions/ShipsB.html

the ships list, Beltana was a brand new ship in 1912. Have a cruise about the site and you will get an idea of what was sailing / steaming where and when.

cheers
Christine

[Omega]

Christine here is the record and I guess it is a case of believe half of what you see.lol.

Passenger FAMILY NAME, BATEMAN,
Given names Title Alternative FAMILY NAME, A Mr
Ship/aircraft name Beltana

Port of embarkation Unknown
Port of disembarkation Sydney
Date of arrival 10 May 1927

Barcode no
11552371

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deirdre

[Omega]

BELTANA 1912
The BELTANA was a 11,167 gross ton ship, length 152,43m x beam 19,13m, one funnel, two masts, twin screw and a speed of 13 knots. Built by Caird & Co, Greenock, she was launched for the Peninsular & Oriental Steam Nav. Co (P&O Line) on 24th Jan.1912. Used on the London to Capetown, Melbourne and Sydney service until 1914 when she became a troopship. In 1919 she resumed service to Australia via Suez and in 1930 was sold to Japan with the intention of converting her to a whale factory ship, but she was laid up and eventually scrapped in 1933. [North Star to Southern Cross by John M.Maber] [Merchant Fleets by Duncan Haws, vol.1, P&O Line]

Christine from 1919 - 1930 she was doing the Aussie run via Suez so she was in the right place for 1927. And yes she was a steamer but were the a great deal faster than sail or just not governed by the favour of the wind and more reliably time managed? Like I said just trying to get a perspective on time travel took then. When I went to England with mum in 1999 we flew a little quicker but still a long time for a smoker (then not now, smoker that is)

Deirdre

Oh, and I had googled to that site and found the info also found info on the Abyssinia that took my gggrandfather and 2nd family to America while looking for Beltana.....been a successful day today.

[HelenVSmith]

Hi

Assuming that there is not much change in the ship and sailing conditions between 1920 and when your lot arrived:

Beltana left Tilbury 17 June 1920 and arrived in Fremantle 28 July 1920 so around six weeks to Fremantle and add probably another week to Sydney allowing for stopovers in Albany and Melbourne.

Regards
Helen

[HelenVSmith]

Another thought. You know know when your lot arrived. I'd suggest writing to the National Archives their Coming Home scheme.
http://www.naa.gov.au/the_collection/family_history/immigrants.html

It costs $25 and you get copies of the immigration documents. You can get copies of their immigration forms, shipping lists etc quite often there were also photographs of the people. Information about them in England and where they planned to go in Australia.
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It costs $25 and you get copies of the immigration documents. You can get copies of their immigration forms, shipping lists etc quite often there were also photographs of the people. Information about them in England and where they planned to go in Australia.

Regards
Helen

[Omega]

To Christine, kmward and Helen

I thank you all for your help with this thread. Christine for your patience and guidance as well as your help and interest. kmward and Helen thank you for your help and interest I have appreciated all the work and time you have all put into this.

Deirdre