6mb Broadband - from BT

[Neil Wilson]

Well, today I received my new router to enable me to increase the download speed to 6 mb instead of one. It was like Christmas again. Wrong!!!

After an hour of listening to the set up CD (bearing in mind that I already had set up a router/network before but it was not compatible for 6 mb)
For it to reinstall the broadband software (wait for it - an older version than on the PC to start with)
It then spent 15 minutes trying to make a connection.
When that failed it went in to self diagnosis testing that said check you connections.
After an expensive phone call to those nice people at BT, it was decided that the brand new router was faulty. Now I have to wait for Christmas to arrive all over again.


So back to the trusty old one whilst they deliver the new one. Just had to wait for the software to up date itself. Way can't they make the CD check to see if you already have broadband and what software version you ar">It then spent 15 minutes trying to make a connection. </DIV><LI>When that failed it went in to self diagnosis testing that said check you connections.
</UL>After an expensive phone call to those nice people at BT, it was decided that the brand new router was faulty. Now I have to wait for Christmas to arrive all over again.
So back to the trusty old one whilst they deliver the new one. Just had to wait for the software to up date itself. Way can't they make the CD check to see if you already have broadband and what software version you are using? Also, why can't they make the CD in 2 versions, idiot proof or experience user.|rant|

So, do I tidy up all the cables or leave them all over the floor?

[Scottie]

Are you sure you will get six? They offered me 8 if I bought a new router and when I checked what the line supports it said 3 and I already get 2.2 with the modem I have so I have decided not to give myself hassle :D

[Neil Wilson]

Are you sure you will get six? They offered me 8 if I bought a new router and when I checked what the line supports it said 3 and I already get 2.2 with the modem I have so I have decided not to give myself hassle :DHi Scottie
They also offered me 8mb, the line test came back at 6mb (if it wasn't for the trees I could see the exchange, so the line must go via the north pole)
The router I have, has the original broadband modem (the green frog type) connected into, so it might work, I have to wait until the 7th when the new bandwidth is activated to see what I can receive if I can work out how to do that??? or can you tell me, it is a MircoSoft ME PC or XP laptop so please state which system I should use :) ).
The new replacement router should be here Friday at the latest.
cheers
Neil

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Neil,

I'm so sorry to hear your bad news. :(

Before reading your message, I had already decided to keep a low profile with BT. ;)

This is a copy of a message I posted a few days ago:

I received the offer to register for up to 8Mb speed this morning from BT ..... my line test says I could get 6.5 Mb speed. Needless to say, I have 'filed away' this email in a new folder which I opened in My Documents, named *Things which BT will hopefully forget all about me* ...... 'cos I want to stay on a reliable 2Mb speed!

[Mythology]

Unless the increased *upload* speed is going to be a great advantage (which it may in Neil's case, with his web site), or you do lots of really big downloads and find yourself sitting there twiddling your thumbs, I'd let some other sucker be the BT guinea-pig.

The "Max" product *does* work OK for some people, but various forums are full of moans about it, so much so that two ISPs (that I know of, there may be more) have now said that where the problem has been passed to BT Wholesale by them and not been resolved, they will swallow the BT regrade charge and change affected customers back to the fixed speed product free of charge.

In your case, Diane, with a SNR of 5.5 to 6, which is pretty awful, I certainly would not risk it. You could possibly improve that by using a router and/or a filtered faceplate rather than a plug-in microfilter - but the SNR increase that you may get from doing that would probably be wiped out by the speed increase, and, like many people, you would probably find that BT's clever piece of kit thinks it isn't good enough and drops your speed to lower than the 2Mb that you currently have!

[Scottie]

I haven't a clue Neil. I use the little silver speedtouch modem they sent me and plug it into either the Toshiba laptop with XP or the desktopp Packard Bell with XP. The test I did was on the BT page advertising the 8mb offer. Just typed in the phone number and it said 3mb but I am about 2 miles from the exchange on an old line that had to have the dax removed before I got broadband at all. As Mythology says I am quite happy with my speed now and "if it ain't broke don't fix it!"

[Bengie]

It must be bourne in mind that these are 'up to' speeds and there is no guarantee you will get anywhere near it.
I am on 10mb cable so don't have the distance related problems. The biggest thing to remember though is that you 'can't' download faster than the distant station can upload and in the main that is the majority. The fastest download I get is around 1.5mb and that is only from large companies with big pipes such as Microsoft when doing updates.
There are also contention ratios to contend with and of course busy traffic periods, so all in all, there is not a lot to be gained from an increase in bandwidth and I would only consider upping if, as in my case, it is a free increase in speed or of a very minimal cost to yourself.

It's worth keeping in mind that companies like BT have a download cap, so if you get an increase in speed, you will reach that cap sooner and may have to start paying for the extra over and above that cap.

[Blain]

The cap is only a guideline, there are no charges if you exceed it.

[Mythology]

BT Broadband, in the Terms & Conditions taken from their web site (my emboldening) ...

"26 The service has a usage guideline, which sets out the amount of information you are allowed to transfer each month (this is set out in www.bt.com/broadbandfrombt). If you constantly go over this amount, we may upgrade you to another BT broadband service that is better suited to your usage, charge you for your extra usage or end your agreement. We will give you one month's notice if we take any of these actions."

What actually applies depends on which ISP you are with and which package you chose (my current one allows me 10GB per month, after which I would pay an extra £1 per GB) but you will find some sort of restriction hidden in the small print of most ISP's T&C. If there's no forced upgrade to a more expensive package or extra per GB charge, look out for the bit about your connection being "managed" if you use an "excessive" amount - in plain English, this means that they will restrict your speed, sometimes to as low as dial-up.

[Mythology]

In addition, while I would suspect that very few users of this forum have anything to worry about, so don't start panicking, if you think that "unlimited" actually means unlimited, be aware that the Advertising Standards Authority have redefined it, so "unlimited" is allowed in the headline advertising as long as there's something somewhere in the small print that says "well, actually, not quite ..."

[Neil Wilson]

Cheers folks

I can't see on the BT page where I can test the speed of my current connection. According to my account details it is only 1mb.

Scottie - re your speed test - that is where I got the 6mb result so only if you live on top of an exchange will you get 8mb.

Diane - most of BT mail goes straight in the bin but this seem too good to miss.

Myth - The speed is definitely need, only took 30 minutes on Saturday to upload to one of my sites.

I will keep you posted when (or should that be if and When) the new router arrives and what speed I can get.

Cheers
Neil

[Dave]

Try this http://st.tstools.co.uk/

The bottom one which donloads 4 files is good

My sppeds have lurled at just below 2 mbs until the last few days, I can almost touch the exchange

and newwith congestion
Test Complete - 3.00 MB file downloaded in 5.819 seconds Download Speed: 4223.41 kilobits per second Download RateFormat4223.41Kbps (kilobits per second)527.93KBps (kilobytes per second)4.12Mbps (megabits per second)0.52MBps (megabytes per second)

[Mythology]

"I can't see on the BT page where I can test the speed of my current connection."

Do you mean the line speed or your actual download speed?

If line speed, just hover your mouse over the two little computers in the system tray. If it's a 1 Mb line, I think the XP display may be different to my ME, but it should say something equivalent to 1152000 bps (1152 kbps). 1 Mb is actually 1024 kbps, but there are overheads involved - 1152 kbps is the sync rate, and it doesn't mean that you have a better connection or (as some people seem to think) that you have a 1.1 Mb line, it's the standard sync rate. The same goes for a 2 Mb line (2048 kbps), for which the sync rate is 2272 kbps- if somebody says that theirs is 2.2 Mb line, it's because they don't realise what the figures are!

If you mean testing your actual download speed, this can fluctuate so much that it would be unwise to infer too much from results unless they are consistently bad/good, but here are a few for you which are UK based:
http://sod.ms/fast/
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.walker/speedtest.html (can misbehave, run it twice if you get strange and improbable results the first time)
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/speedtest.php
http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/
http://www.adslguide.org.uk/tools/speedtest.asp (as stated on page, uses Java and might not work - it doesn't like my Java, always gives me very obviously dud results)

Best of luck with Max, hope it all goes OK for you.

(Edit. Plus Dave's one - he types faster than I do!)

[Scottie]

[QUOTE=MythologyThe same goes for a 2 Mb line (2048 kbps), for which the sync rate is 2272 kbps- if somebody says that theirs is 2.2 Mb line, it's because they don't realise what the figures are!
[QUOTE]

:D Well I did say I hadn't a clue Myth. Thanks for explaining.

[Mythology]

Oops! Sorry, Scottie - wasn't intending to point the finger at you. :o

It is a *very* common misunderstanding, so I thought I'd mention it before somebody comes back and says "but mine is ..." - I'd forgotten that you quoted it a few messages back.

[Neil Wilson]

Test Complete - 3.00 MB file downloaded in 5.819 seconds Download Speed: 4223.41 kilobits per second Download RateFormat4223.41Kbps (kilobits per second)527.93KBps (kilobytes per second)4.12Mbps (megabits per second)0.52MBps (megabytes per second)My result
Test Complete - 3.00 MB file downloaded in 20.06 seconds
Download Speed: 1225.12 kilobits per second Download RateFormat1225.12Kbps (kilobits per second)153.14KBps (kilobytes per second)1.2Mbps (megabits per second)Download Speed: 1225.12 kilobits per second Download RateFormat1225.12Kbps (kilobits per second)153.14KBps (kilobytes per second)1.2Mbps (megabits per second)0.15MBps (megabytes per second)


I still none the wiser.

[Scottie]

No worries. I like to know these things. It makes you seem so wise to your grandchildren <vbg>

[Neil Wilson]

[QUOTE=Mythology
If line speed, just hover your mouse over the two little computers in the system tray. If it's a 1 Mb line, I think the XP display may be different to my ME, but it should say something equivalent to 1152000 bps (1152 kbps). 1 Mb is actually 1024 kbps, but there are overheads involved - 1152 kbps is the sync rate, and it doesn't mean that you have a better connection or (as some people seem to think) that you have a 1.1 Mb line, it's the standard sync rate. The same goes for a 2 Mb line (2048 kbps), for which the sync rate is 2272 kbps- if somebody says that theirs is 2.2 Mb line, it's because they don't realise what the figures are!

[/QUOTE]Hi Myth
I haven't seen the two little computers for ages, well since I put the router between the broadband moden and the computers. Now that even confuse BT tech support, I have to take the router out and plug the modem directly into the PC so that they will support me, although it might be different nowadays seeing they are selling routers.
Cheers
Neil

[Mythology]

Neil, if you're using a router, then unless you're unlucky (some don't provide them) you should be able to get the line stats from that.

Try http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.htm - I don't know what yours is, but there are quite a few there so if you're lucky it may be listed.

You may have to use your initiative a little, as that page is not entirely error free - in the instructions for the Voyager 105, it omits to mention that after double-clicking to open the control panel you have to hit the status button before hitting Ctrl+F1 - but hopefully it should set you on the right track.

(If not, a Google for something on the lines of
[your router model] + line stats
may turn up something)

[Neil Wilson]

Hi Myth

Just done the Max test with this result

Download Speed: 1287 kbps (160.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 344 kbps (43 KB/sec transfer rate)

Now seeing today is the activation date (before 8pm) and it is now 8.36pm, where is my 6mb :confused:

Neil

[Mythology]

"where is my 6mb"

That's what a good number of other people would like to know too!
However, as you've only just been switched over, I wouldn't panic yet - things *may* improve as BT's clever piece of kit gradually works out what your line is actually capable of.
Different people have had such vastly different experiences of Max that I honestly wouldn't like to draw any conclusions from anything, especially this early on.
Finding the line stats from the router, as well as seeing what sync speed they've put you on, would give you the downstream (local) attenuation (loss) and downstream (local) SNR (signal to noise ratio) figures, which could give a rough idea of what to expect in the long run, but if they're not easy to find, I think I'd leave it until the new router arrives and see what the score is then.

[Neil Wilson]

Hi folks
Well I have up to 8 mb according to my account page.
Where is the router - will be here on the 14th |rant|
The poor bloke on the sales desk, he didn't know the answer to why BT tell people to use ethernet for the increase in speed and not USB connections, then they supply routers with only one ethernet and one USB.

I have run Max to check the speed but the old router only will allow 1mb through.
So I will wait until next week and will let you know if, when the router arrives, there is any difference on the speed of connection.
cheers
Neil

[Mythology]

By coincidence, from another forum where somebody bought a new router to improve matters ...

10 June:
"This morning data rate on bbmax test was 450kbps, connected the new Belkin and speed is 2.8meg. Whoopee. Hope it lasts (or gets better)"

But then, this morning, 12 June:
"Edit:- Didn't last, dropped sync and down to 954k, hope it goes back after 3 days. What a drag."

Be prepared for some fun and games, especially in the first couple of weeks - don't write it off as a dead loss if things seem iffy at first.

[Ed Bradford]

In the USA, as is no doubt the same the world over, the demand for telephone service increases each year. This has caused the telephone companies to look for alternative solutions over the years to running a pair of copper wires from the central office for each telephone line. One method that I’m aware of is the use of a SLIK (sorry, I don’t know what the acronym means). Basically, what occurs is that two pair of wires (4 wires) is used to run a T-1 line from the central office to a point near where the service is needed. The T-1 has the bandwidth, when divided down through equipment into station lines, to provide service to 24 telephones. In England it’s referred to as an E-1 line which has the bandwidth of 30 station lines. The T-1 line is brought to a point where the service is needed and connected to a SLIK. The SLIK divides the T-1 into individual telephone lines which are then run to the homes or businesses needing service. As I understand it, this technique limits bandwidth. So if you are only a couple miles from the central office and getting poor service, you may be limited by equipment and not distance. Although I don’t know it as fact, I’m reasonably sure that the same tecnique is used in England as well.

I understand that the telephone companies have been installing fiber optic cables over the last few years to handle greater bandwidth. I hope that means that we will realize more and better service.

.................Ed

[Mythology]

"I understand that the telephone companies have been installing fiber optic cables over the last few years to handle greater bandwidth. I hope that means that we will realize more and better service."

Several million Brits will be praying that nobody comes round in the night and sneakily converts their line to fibre-optic.
The cable companies use this over here - but their product is designed for it.
Broadband, as supplied via a standard British Telecom line, is designed to work over copper wires. If you have a bit that's aluminium you *may* get away with it if there isn't too much, but if you are one of the unlucky few whose BT line is fibre-optic, you're completely stuffed.
"Line" in this case means any point between you and the telephone exchange where the DSLAM* is installed. The other side of that, fibre-optic is fine.

(*Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexer - "fing wot sorts out the different signals and wot 'ave yer")

[Mythology]

Incidentally, with aluminium, it's not the fact that it's aluminium that is, in itself, the problem - the problem is the joints. At some time in the past, due to a copper shortage, aluminium was used for some sections, and damp on the copper/aluminium joint = electrolytic reaction = high resistance = noisy line.

In many cases, this is in bits underground, untouched for decades and with no record of where the aluminium was used, so BT don't have a clue what's there until they find it when there's a fault on the line serious enough to warrant actually replacing it.

What was that, Ed? Did I hear you say:
"Your British telephone network is an antiquated shambles and it's not far short of a miracle that anything works at all."

Errr .... yes, I don't think you'd find too many Brits who would be so blindly patriotic as to argue with you. :D

[Ed Bradford]

Myth, what I know of the current status of the British telephone system I’ve learned on this forum. It sounds like they are typical of telephone systems the world over. You’re right in your assessment, sometimes they actually don’t work very well. I guess trying to keep up with normal maintenance and modern technology has been a difficult task for them.

I didn’t realize that aluminum was used for telephone lines at one time. The same was probably true for the USA. I know that for a short while, back in the 1970’s I believe, the building industry here in the States used aluminum for house power wiring. It also proved to be a problem for the reasons you cited plus it proved to be too brittle and broke easily. You wouldn’t want to buy a house that was wired with it.

............Ed

[Neil Wilson]

Well the replacement router has arrived and says it is running at 8.1mbps. I have noticed the difference all ready, I haven't time for a smoke between downloads.
Good old BT in the end...
:D

P.S. Max says I running at anything between 1.3 and 6 mb so there is a big difference.

[Mythology]

Good-oh! Glad it's working OK for you. :)

The maximum actual download speed you'll get on an "8Mb" line (8128 kbps), assuming absolutely perfect conditions (very rare!) is 7.15 Mbps, so if you're getting up to 6, that's pretty good, and even your lower figure is an improvement on the old 1Mb line, so you haven't lost anything and your upload speed will also be better than before.

This article (http://www.adslguide.org.uk/newsarchive.asp?item=2699) which appeared on ADSLguide a couple of days ago provides what seems to me to be a pretty accurate, non-ranting, well thought-out summary of the current situation with Max. As you are with BT as your ISP, you can ignore section 3, which only really applies to lesser-known ISPs, mostly the bargain-basement cowboys, but you might find sections 8 and 9 interesting.

[Mythology]

Ooh! A sensible and honest ISP! (where's the "faints in disbelief" smilie?)

(Declaration of interest - I use their telephone service, am a member, and have £35 in shares with these people)
Actually it's what I'd expect from the Phone Co-op, they are not your average company where marketing rules the roost and anything goes in the advertising as long as it lures the punters in but, having received their newsletter this morning, I went to the web address mentioned for Broadband Max info, and found this included:

When will the change happen?
Probably some time during late June or July. We will write to all customers before it happens. BT have experienced some problems with upgrading exchanges, and we are in discussions with our suppliers about the timing of the switch in order to try and ensure the change will be a smooth one.

:)

[Burrow Digger]

I was using a phone line and the old dial-up back in NZ. Now that I have been in Canada and have been using CABLE for the last 5 years - I am NEVER NEVER NEVER going back to dial-up for ANY reason what so ever. CABLE IS THE BEST!!! :D :D :D

Canada does have something like that broadband service you mention - where the computer and the phone lines can both be used at the same time on the same telephone number.

[Neil Wilson]

Good-oh! Glad it's working OK for you. :)

This article (http://www.adslguide.org.uk/newsarchive.asp?item=2699) which appeared on ADSLguide a couple of days ago provides what seems to me to be a pretty accurate, non-ranting, well thought-out summary of the current situation with Max. As you are with BT as your ISP, you can ignore section 3, which only really applies to lesser-known ISPs, mostly the bargain-basement cowboys, but you might find sections 8 and 9 interesting.Hi Myth
Section 5 is interesting, I don't think I changed the microfilter so I will do that soon.
Cheers